Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Lotus Flower

What a mess

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160687#Comment_122160687

Suit cases or legal cases?

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162246#Comment_122162246

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058335387/government-has-spent-over-800-000-on-pets-brought-to-ireland-by-ukrainian-refugees

But, but, what about the genuine Ukrainian refugees? Pull the other one:-)

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162479#Comment_122162479

what, the dogs? That’s also bullshit perpetrated by the same morons bringing us the current fiasco.

Do you consider pets of refugees to also be refugees?

Lotus Flower

Is that meant to be some sort of gotcha? You can believe that they're genuine refugees but that their benefits were far too generous and that it was mad to spend so much on their pets at the same time

nachouser

Nah, the thread and the site in general has just been banging on for months about military age UKR males and why are they still here and now, "oh, they're genuine refugees, how can we displace them?". Not a gotcha, just pointing out the use of one category against another.

Lotus Flower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162520#Comment_122162520

The article from the journal about Leitrim says 'Locals have told The Journal that tens of children attending local schools are living in the hotel, and that it is mainly Ukrainian women, kids, and older people who are residents there.'

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162531#Comment_122162531

Yeah, I'll admit that I jumped both feet in on this one without noticing the journal link.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162520#Comment_122162520

What’s your position on this then? Can you clarify?

It appears you agree with it when it makes no sense whatsoever.

Would you not also agree that a Ukrainian refugee is much more likely to be in need of our help then a “refugee” who arrives here illegally and does not disclose identities etc?

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162541#Comment_122162541

I can't understand how you've drawn that conclusion. Nearly all the anti-asylum seekingers brigade in this tread have spent months trying to downplay the situation in Ukraine as if it's not a big deal. They've exactly what Putin would want, which is to try and drive a wedge between EU and Ukraine.

Over the last months this posters in this thread have constantly

• Talked about about Ukrainians getting too much money
• Talking up too much accommodation space
• How if they can go back to Ukraine on holidays they can go back and live there
• Only one half of Ukraine is under threat so they should go and live there

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162152#Comment_122162152

Well covered on Drivetime on RTE this evening. The Ukrainian ladies none too happy to move to Lisdoon from Ennis, not so good transport links and further from services. Well you know what, if you wanna live in Ireland they may put up with what Irish rural people have to deal with in terms of lack of transport and services. Then there was Igor & his girlfriend who might lose jobs. Well Igor, there's plenty of work to be done back in Ukraine and he'll be very welcome home I'm sure. Complaining about the quality of your situation should be far down the war refugees list of thoughts.

Counter balancing this was the owner/ manager? of Durty Nellies, a well established business near Bunratty on the go for more years than I can recall. He reported that his business was decimated, little or no night time economy and little accommodation to be got locally by visitors to the region.

Would Roderic O'Gorman & Catherin Martin please stand up and give an account of yerselves. It's a disgrace how domestic tourism is being wrecked on the altar of these policies. One lad interviewed thought it was a trade off, that we take the farm subsidies from the EU and to repay, suck up the extra population.

One things for sure, the chickens are coming home to roost in the first week of June.

mykrodot

that coverage from Ennis on Drivetime was very interesting. Kicking out Ukrainians, seemingly mostly women with kids in local schools isn't a good look. Neither is moving a Ukrainian man suffering from cancer and getting treatment in Limerick to Lisdoonvara or Killarney a good look. I couldn't care either way but all its gonna take is for the Ukrainians to start talking about discrimination and the **** is going to hit the fan here! Interesting one to watch. Government have made a gigantic balls up of this whole situation. Really badly managed.

StrawbsM

The Ukrainians in the hotel in Drumshanbo have been told that that can’t bring their pets either and have to to sort that out themselves. They’ll have 48 hours notice of where they’re heading. It’s in that journal article. So after paying millions out in vet bills…….

As lotus flower said above. An absolute mess.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162591#Comment_122162591

Do you think the Ukrainian’s should be moved out of the hotel and schools to destinations unknown?

Am I hearing this right. Greedy hoteliers are now kicking Ukrainians (who have paperwork and whose country is at war) out in favour of recently arrived AS (many of whom have no paperwork) because there is more money and in the meantime local businesses are being decimated because the tourist economy is gone.

What have we become at all??? There's an interesting sub context here. Many Irish people are making as much hay on this as they can get their hands on full well knowing it is destroying their local communities. They don't care though as long as they get their few euro. Meanwhile jobs and businesses are lost.

We could well end up turning on each other in a big way.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162666#Comment_122162666

I'm fairly sure the Dept. knows the destination. I doubt there are being turfed out on the streets. I'm struggling to see the outrage with ukrainian being provided accommodation being provided with further accommodation to be honest.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162699#Comment_122162699

Yes agreed, there should be no problem at all. It's perfectly reasonable for the state to manage the accommodation and location of war refugees. It's disappointing to hear complaints about it, no-one is entitled to be accommodated in specific places that they prefer. Sure, we'd all like that.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162686#Comment_122162686

I don’t know if it was this or the other thread but I did highlight that the tender info changed last year. There used to be 2 (one for Ukraine & one for IPAS). I haven’t been able to see any new contracts awarded by Roderic’s dept at all this year. When the Ukraine war started, etenders would be updated quarterly. This year; Nothing.

It’s possible (I’m guessing here) that as contracts have come up for renewal, hotels, guest houses, etc, have found they can no longer choose the contract they want. Throw in The Official Secret’s Act which is mentioned in the expression of interest of private homeowners that I linked last week and we might never really know what’s going on.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162699#Comment_122162699

So you have no issue with kids being taken out of schools then.

StrawbsM

what really should have happened in Feb 2022 was Ukrainian teachers and SNA’s should have been organised in order to teach the curriculum in Ukraine. Utilising hotel ballrooms and also doing e-learning. English lessons could also have been added to the curriculum.

I remember that was mentioned way back in the early days of the Ukraine refugeee thread by someone. Moving schools wouldn’t be a big deal now if the mindset was always about getting home whenever that will be.

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162210#Comment_122162210

Yes Arthur, the reason (and get this) is because it's a graph of the IPAS accommodation occupancy -

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162055#Comment_122162055

Nice one - Muddy the waters with the overall increase in the EU when we're talking about Ireland specifically

Those masters of misinformation (the BBC) have Ireland's increase between the two compatible years 2019/2022 at 186% - it's way more now obviously

BBC

An annual analysis of migration figures shows how Ireland experienced a sharp rise in most types of immigration in 2022.

The top three countries of origin were Georgia, Algeria and Somalia, accounting for 45% of all applicants.

13,651 non-Ukrainian applications for asylum in 2022 and of those, 45% were from Georgia, Algeria and Somalia

Remind me again which languages the tweets went out in

Latest figs on state/hotel accom for our friends

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c727n712n47o

Joe 90

Something I've been wondering about is the assumption that some or most of the Ukrainians will be going back to the Ukraine when the hostilities end there. Would they be welcome there or would they be accused of running away and leaving others to fight?

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162794#Comment_122162794

The vast majority are not from the war zone. They won't have any animosity leveled at them.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162739#Comment_122162739

Who says they are definitely being taken out of schools? If they are, not ideal but refugees can't expect to have carte blanche on where their state provided accommodation is based.

Packrat

I'm beginning to wonder if this all ends in a massive war or genocide in Europe at some stage.

It's fanciful until you remember that 110 years ago a war which resulted in 40 million deaths started over less.

We already have a war going on in Europe, and a lot of very pisxed off citizens.

The one thing that doesn't change in history is human nature.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162961#Comment_122162961

That's actually why we have things like the ECHR, human rights laws, the ICC, refugee and asylum laws etc. Most of these were set up in the immediate aftermath of WW2 to protect vulnerable people and to try and prevent future genocides from happening.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162023#Comment_122162023

As has been pointed out previously, that graph tracks occupancy, not the actual numbers of claims.

As can be seen from claim numbers, the number of people arriving was increasing steadily in the years prior to COVID and O Gormans tweets.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163048#Comment_122163048

and time and time again these treaties have been shown to be not worth the paper they're written on.

How many times have we heard 'Never again'. Just look at what Russia is doing to Ukraine or Isreal to Palestine etc etc to see we learn nothing from the past.

MegamanBoo

Above graph sourced here.

https://www.rebelnews.ie/2022/10/26/not-a-refugee-crisis-a-housing-crisis/

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163155#Comment_122163155

are you actually trying to say 2016-2019 is the same rate as 2021 and his tweets to now.

scottser

Deleted

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163172#Comment_122163172

No I'm saying this graph, being based on the actual number of applications, shows more clearly that the number of arrivals was already steadily increasing before these tweets.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163213#Comment_122163213

by about 600 extra per year. The rate of increase after 2021 is through the roof.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163162#Comment_122163162

But without them (and bodies like the EU), it would be a total free for all.

It's incredible to hear British people to saying they want to withdraw from the ECHR. Without that, the UK government could reintroduce the death penalty, internment without trial, all street protests banned etc etc.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163163#Comment_122163163

Very interesting link and surprised to see that Germany has more refugees than us.

Source figures here .

https://www.unhcr.org/refugee-statistics/download/?url=hnW4d3

Year	Country ofOrigin	Country ofAsylum	Refugeesunder UNHCR’s mandate	Asylum-seekers	Other peoplein need of international protection
2022	-	United States of America (USA)	363,059	1,798,792

One might think the USA would do more given they in large part were responsible for the Ukraine crisis according to John Pilger's prophetic 2014 article.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger

Year	Country ofOrigin	Country ofAsylum	Refugeesunder UNHCR’s mandate	Asylum-seekers	Other peoplein need of international protection
2022	-	Ireland (IRL)	81,256	15,108

USA has about 4.5 times as many UNHCR refugees as Ireland while having a landmass over 135 times greater than rep ireland.

Jeff2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160248#Comment_122160248

These people should be seen as enemy of the state and traitors.

Jeff2

Michael Mcdowell and

Michael mcnamara and

Peadar Tóibín..

If people could put in their sig wuo to vote for it would probably help.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163048#Comment_122163048

All of which are now being abused by non vulnerable people and arguably need an update

ooter

Couldn't believe it when I heard FF TD Barry Cowen say the words "illegal immigration" in the TV debate last night.

Blind As A Bat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122157943#Comment_122157943

Did it never occur to you that people often tell little porky pies? Anybody can say what they know is expected of them in an interview situation.

Question: 'What are your views on the LGBT community?' '

Answer (carefully rehearsed): 'I think they're a great bunch of lads/lasses/non-binaries'

I'm sure that the asylum seekers are a mixed bag in their views on homosexuality but cultural attitudes in the places they come from tend to be of the 'down with that sort of thing' variety.

I mean look at Russia (a close neighbour of Georgia, where Uncle Joe Stalin and many of our asylum seekers come from) where a group of male Irish dancers were set upon by the ubiquitous angry mob on St Patrick's Day a few years ago, because the locals in some provincial town thought they were gay.

tom23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163730#Comment_122163730

Suprised RTE studio didn’t black out at the mention of that word.

Lotus Flower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162952#Comment_122162952

It's a fair point. And it also applies to those who were offered Crooksling etc but left to be back in town

Blind As A Bat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162961#Comment_122162961

Well, anyone born after WW II is of a generation that has grown up in a time of unprecedented peace in Europe but sadly, our history is wall to wall wars :( Europe is heading towards instability again.

I'm really fed up. Here's how I feel.

I don't hate foreigners or other races.

I'm not anti-Muslim. I've known many over the years and on the whole they're not religious maniacs. The more observant ones are more like practising Catholics used to be in Ireland years ago. Having said that the more of them you have in a country, especially ones who turn up randomly, the more you're likely to see an increase in the extreme ones.

I agree that Ireland should do our bit, as we always have done, to help genuine refugees fleeing wars or regimes, but in appropriate numbers.

I have no problem with a foreign national from outside the EU coming to take up a job they've applied for.

I don't want to see a 'right wing' party in this country but I would like to see a strong and sensible centrist party. I would never vote for a far right party.

BUT

I am against large scale immigration of random economic migrants. I'm angry about it and I'm very worried about it and what Ireland will look like twenty years from now as a result.

I don't think Irish people are in any way bigoted or xenophobic but I'm afraid the country will head that way and that our scum bag class will grow and latch on to immigration as another excuse to kick people's heads in. We don't have big cities in Ireland, with the exception of Dublin and Cork and even those are not very big by international standards so I'm worried that we will end up with an ugly, segregated and violent landscape in our little towns in years to come.

At the moment we have about 20% foreign born people in Ireland and that's a kind of fluid number as many are here legally to work or study and will return to their own homelands and be replaced by other temporary residents.

I don't have an issue with Ireland having a percentage of its population being of other races or ethnicities but I do worry about how that number will grow in the coming years as more people settle here permanently and if they do so as asylum seekers and then bring in their families, at what point will we see Irish people reduced to 50% of our population? Is that an eventual possibility? In the Netherlands the native Dutch population is now down to less than 75%.

And we can't ignore the stats from other European countries with high immigration levels where certain groups such as Somalians fail to integrate on any meaningful level and are twice as likely to require state benefits to live on. Why do our government and NGOs believe that Ireland who can't manage our affairs at the best of times will somehow avoid all the pitfalls that other countries have experienced?

My fear is that we are going to see a tsunami of social problems in Ireland over the next generation if we carry on as we are. And I really don't see how we can ever come out of it. There is a real danger that we, having survived 800 years of colonisation, will ultimately destroy Ireland ourselves. It's tragic really.

Lotus Flower

Excellent post Blind As A Bat. Sums up how I feel too

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162794#Comment_122162794

Id rather they stayed.

At least most are genuine, if the 100k goes back home it just opens the door and leaves room for another 100k chancers coming from Africa.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162786#Comment_122162786

It's interesting to see people talk about misinformation while simultaneously presenting facts that disregard probably the most important contextual information. In this case, you appear to have promoted a tweet by an Irish minister to greater contextual prominence than the outbreak of a European war which saw 6 million people fleeing Ukraine. This is hardly an irrelevance — the huge numbers of Ukrainian refugees suddenly injected into the European refugee system have undoubtedly increased the strain on the processing systems of countries and...yes...many applicants hopeful of capitalising on that will have done so.

It's also hardly deflection to point out that asylum applicant figures rose in the UK and Europe generally too. That's not to say that certain actions or policies specific to Ireland had no effect on the numbers that came here, but it would seem a stretch to say that "but for" a tweet or two, Ireland would have avoided the increases witnessed elsewhere in Europe.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163919#Comment_122163919

I think your over complicating it - the tweets are dumb, he’s has years to take them down or edit them, he has not.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162961#Comment_122162961

Well, you've said it yourself — despite the insistences that multiculturalism and migration have precipitated the decline and fall of Europe, there wasn't exactly a Utopia beforehand and in relative terms we are faring very well compared to what came before in terms of peace, tolerance and prosperity. The Ukraine war has, at its heart, a similar imperialistic and nationalistic territoriality as that which spurred the world wars — not migration.

But you're also right that human nature doesn't change. There is nobody on the Right, Left or Centre who can confidently claim to set us on a course where wars and genocide will be no more. Migration and multiculturalism may well lead to conflict in years to come, but monoculturalism has not exactly proved itself to dissuade the existence of war or tyranny either. The key is that regardless of what paths we take, people are willing to keep cool heads and to work together (and compromise) to promote peaceful resolution.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162794#Comment_122162794

If they have jobs, kids in schools, accommodation here, I don't see lots of them going back at all.

Even if they didn't come from a war zone, it would still be better here than at home.

Quags

Must be some event the world media would cover in Dublin in the next couple of days 😏 Back by Thursday

https://x.com/Mick_O_Keeffe/status/1792832376265203932