Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820721#Comment_121820721

The most important upcoming election regarding immigration to Ireland is not the general election but the US presidential election on November 5th. A victory for Biden or another Democrat and our current immigration policy goes on for the next four years at least. I hate to state that the only way numbers may be limited or significantly reduced is if Trump (assuming he's the Republican nominee) wins as Trump has made it clear he will end the war by, presumably, seeking a deal with Putin.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820755#Comment_121820755

FF will do nothing for as long as Martin is their leader. They need to dump him after the next election. He's had 14 years ffs as leader and still won't get off the stage. Same for Varadkar. He has to go as well as he's just utterly useless.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820764#Comment_121820764

Trump will likley win and that will have a slowing effect on Ukranian emigration, assumimg Trump is able to pacify Putin.

But it wont have any effect on global asylum immigratiom, which is still yet to peak obviously.

tom23

Cant see Martin there regardless after the next election.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820764#Comment_121820764

You my friend are delusional if you think Putin will stop let alone Trump can stop him.

Don’t be so naive.

tom23

I have no love for any of the parties in power. Hate the greens as much as FFG. But no party has a tough stance on immigration and the current **** show it is. But someone has to crack and it’s one of those 2.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820613#Comment_121820613

It is not conflicting messages. You seems to have problem acknowledging that this issue and many other issues are not strictly black and white. There is not us against them or two camps or anything like that. Person can be pro immigration yet totally opposed to current policies or open border policy.

Some people like to label others with all kinds of *ism labels if they deviate just alittle from their own belief but fact is that this and many more topics cant be defined and people divided as simply pro or against camp.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820871#Comment_121820871

Thanks. I know what I read. It's conflicting messages. 👍

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820624#Comment_121820624

Indeed, the people citing immigration as a concern are still going to vote for FF, FG, SF, Lab, SDs, PBP etc in the elections. It would be a mistake to take these polls and view them as evidence of the Irish public becoming radicalised and moving towards the right or even the far right. People are hardly going to become committed right wingers over a solitary issue that's in the news at the moment.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820834#Comment_121820834

Please dont say you are thinking of voting SF lol.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820838#Comment_121820838

Thanks jj.

Was thinking, what a world some are looking for.. Trump to win and then the supposed leader of the free world to fawn or worse over Putin (again!) in the hope of stopping immigration from Ukraine!

As if Ukrainians or anybody else in the surrounding countries will be staying happily at home given that scenario, never mind Putin free to carry on expanding his empire?!

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820907#Comment_121820907

Hopefully you are correct. The only caveat I suppose is that there isnt an alternat8ve party fpr people to vote for.

We may see an upswing in independents, if they field enough candidates across the country.

But srill an FFG returned govt at the end of it all.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820965#Comment_121820965

Are you looking for an alternative? You talk about it a lot.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820868#Comment_121820868

They dont need to crack. Not at all.

They will return the same govt we have today, in all liklehood. Perhaps with the greens replaced by indies or the Soc Dems.

But FFG will likley lead the govt, regardless.

If SF had an anti immigration stance and it was winning them votes, THEN you would see FF or FG peel away.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820979#Comment_121820979

No, not personally.

I am just commenting on the macro situation.

I do feel that a lot of people are looking for an alternative though.

I dont share their view, but that doesnt mean I can't be honest with what I see in front of me.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820994#Comment_121820994

That's interesting but makes no sense.

You keep on repeatedly mentioning alternatives.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820965#Comment_121820965

Most of the countries that have strong far right parties have a history of right wing or hard right parties : Germany, Italy, Belgium, NL etc.

We are quite the outlier in Europe in that our politics has never gone out to the extremes of right or left, it's not really in our political DNA....we must be one of the most stable democracies out there.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820983#Comment_121820983

Why does any party need an ANTI immigration stance?

What is needed is a government that controls immigration properly, gets on top of housing and other services eg health and isn't so condescending to the people who are upset and being given conflicting messages..

Any one of the main opposition parties could read the room and decide to alter a few things without having to descend to an anti immigration stance and be elected on that ticket.

Shure most people here bar a few have said that its the problems with numbers that are the issue, not the refugees themselves?!

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821003#Comment_121821003

I mention alternatives because I think a lot of people are looking for one.

Thats just the reading I take from peoples opinions.

I think this will probably manifest itself in high votes for independents at the GE, should they field enough candidates.

Which will make for a diluted govt.

I would say the govt needs to do a better job on communciation and explaining the positives about immigration. But thats a battle lost at present, sadly.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821019#Comment_121821019

Agreed. Lets hope it stays that way :)

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820960#Comment_121820960

A Trump win will embolden Putin to keep pushing and taking more territory meaning a bigger increase in Refugees.

Putin said it himself, he has no plans to stop and will continue on regardless.

People believing what comes out of Trumps mouth really has me worried for our future.

tom23

I don’t think that’s a done deal. As said referendum and local elections will give a good idea the lay of the land.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821060#Comment_121821060

No party needs an anti immigration stance.

I think a moderate approach that was thoughful and had longevity is a good idea, yes.

Make some adjustments and invest in resources and infrastrucutre to manage asylum immigration for the long term, because it is going to be forever present.

Lets hope O'Gorman has a vision and a plan when we hear about the large scale state owned asylum accomodation plan.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821019#Comment_121821019

A bit of an extreme thought but each of those countries probably had a moment in history that allowed their far right party to grow. I don't think we are any where close but the current policies have sown the seeds. Labeling every single legitimate protest as far right demeans your argument so when a true far right event occurs (that moment in history), we will miss it and allow it to grow.

tom23

jesus people on here are obsessed with this far right who are nothing more than a bunch of knuckle draggers. They are a long way of forming any kind of party that would entice people en mass to vote for them.

One of the established parties will get tougher on immigration to save their skin.

As for far right? nah.

tom23

what right now is the benefit of immigration? if you mean highly educated professionals who can bring something to the table and pay their own way? i’m all for that. not 1000’s upon 1000’s of unskilled labour who won’t be able to survive in this town without state support. No good to anybody except cheap labour for someone.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821085#Comment_121821085

Yep.

It is one thing wanting our own tds to get a grip on immigration numbers etc but actively supporting outside countries electing somebody like Trump, to " satisfy Putin " puts into perspective who are the real enemy of this argument here, and in whose interest it is to keep fuelling this debate or any debate that seeks to make people dissatisfied with our democracy.

And thats not CT.

There has been research done that shows Russian involvement as well as far right actors (I know people hate this phrase but denying them doesn't make them disappear!) in our own SM as well as European SM, pushing anti democracy narrative, against governments (none of whom are perfect we all know democratic oppsition and any organisation seen to support those fleeing war or helping support aid to countries like Ukraine.

https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/uisce-faoi-thalamh-platform-analysis/

Its the trolls that don't look like trolls feeding conflict and fear and misinformation.

The ones who don't want anybody to believe in the existence of the " far right" " until they get enough of their people voted in to form a party.

The thing to remember is no matter how bad our government appears to be and none are perfect or suit everybody, at least we have a functioning democracy where we can elect new people every few years, we can protest, we can write about our woes and anger here and elsewhere. Freely.

Unlike the countries with governments that are trying hard to subvert opinion in our little country among others, as well as UK and US.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821068#Comment_121821068

Hmmmmm you support the status quo but repeatedly mention alternatives. Doesnt add up.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821019#Comment_121821019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821118#Comment_121821118

Both of these posts are naive imho.

Both sides,not seeing what is happening. Europewide. And here.

It can happen and is happening here.

- Anti immigration resentment. Anger that " they" are getting our benefits our houses our schools, our places at the GP, our hotels.

- People starting to not see people in need but lumping all as economic migrants or worse.

- Othering of people with different religions, skin colours, accents.

- Blaming refugees for all of our country's societal ills which were present long before " they" came to our shores and are not of their making.

- Certain populist TDs looking to hoover up extra votes talking to known far right activists.

Right wing views that have reasonable respect for democracy and human rights DO NOT support targeting of vulnerable individuals or protesting about these people, violence or arson.

Why would this be coming together now?

We have had inept government for years now but still with a liberal democracy and strong economy which makes us a target for those that want rich pickings and power to do what they want without little pesky things like legislation and democracy getting in the way.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821125#Comment_121821125

Well yeah that is how the far right grows

https://www.socialeurope.eu/adopting-far-right-rhetoric-increases-far-right-votes