Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

ECookie13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836111#Comment_121836111

Again, have they implemented the welfare cut for Ukrainians, or just talked about it? Can you answer that and not go on tangents as usual to fit your narrative?

And honestly, bringing in the working visa debate is completely irrelevant, and you know it. The same as "BUT US IRISH EMIGRATED DECADES AGO AMIRITE" when its nowhere near the same scenario as the welfare tourist scenario we are in. This is the usual deflection tactic when there is no rebuttal.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838062#Comment_121838062

And do you see any problems with that?

ECookie13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838167#Comment_121838167

The response to this will be interesting. Answered the crux of the whole problem themself.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838153#Comment_121838153

Do I look like your personal assistant or something? I don't know if they have or not, I suggest googling it and trying to find out.

It's not completely irrelevant when someone says Ireland has an "open borders policy". If someone wants to make that claim, they need to accept they be rightfully challenged on it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838167#Comment_121838167

I do see problems with it. I also dont see bery easy solutions, unless someones position is that Ireland should not take any refugees or asylum seekers ever. In which case, it is fairly easy to deal with but obviously the implications for Ireland to refuse to take any asylum seekers are fairly serious.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832887#Comment_121832887

In fairness, how do you expect any country to have "prepared in advance" for a war in Europe, a shocking invasion by a very much larger but aggressive power?

Especially when we haven't had preparedness for our own housing and healthcare needs for the last 10 years?

We certainly do our part in foreign aid but not as much with refugees until these last 2 years which we have more than caught up I agree.

As for looking to the past I was referring to our shameful refusal to accept any decent number of Jews during "the Emergency," ( not as you deflect with that 'the Irish went everywhere' comment) , which is a way of drawing a parallel between that and those fleeing from Ukraine and your comments about those refugees on the thread.

As I said before, we do have a responsibility to look after those people if not least of all out of humanity, but also that their country is fighting a war to prevent being overrun by an autocratic bully who has expressed a desire to annex other parts of Europe also.

This is a fight that people in Europe support from self preservation if nothing else.

You do not speak for the majority in this country I believe, with views you have expressed about Ukrainian refugees, whatever people feel about immigration from outside of Ukraine.

Patrick2010

RTÉ just had an interview with a lad from Pakistan in a tent. No asking him why he couldn’t find a safer place in a huge country like Pakistan instead of crossing loads of safe countries to end up in Ireland

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838306#Comment_121838306

I would be interested to know what these implications for Ireland would be if we refuse to take asylum seekers? Also there is nothing wrong with sending out a message that if you want to claim asylum in Ireland and you don't have documentation you will be deported back to where you came from and then that country can take care of you. I hate this question, where do we deport them too? Well the answer is back to where ever they came from on the flight and they can deal with them there.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121837306#Comment_121837306

There is a whole thread about it....you will find what you are looking for there.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121837682#Comment_121837682

What's a shambles? That many people arrive in to Ireland via our northern border or ferry without passports ?

It's been like that since CTA , forever

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838669#Comment_121838669

The eu would write us a strongly worded letter 😀

Patrick2010

Meanwhile Newstalk have on their news headlines a guy from Morocco complaining about his tent, a country Irish people go to for holidays

Ash.J.Williams

It's unfortunate that genuine refugees fleeing war probably might not have a passport

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121837722#Comment_121837722

Aha ! "Calls for Border between Ireland and Northern Ireland ... turn around the protocol , boardsies say it's not working ! "

sonofenoch

Rte news running with the main headline about the hardships of immigrants in tents in the snow..........is this the first time the headline news ran a story about the homeless in tents in winter, given we've always had those of our own I don't remember it

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838669#Comment_121838669

The fact that vast majority of Irish people don't want it is one. No political party has come out and said they will do that and no party proposing that has any significant support.

No other western country has refused to take refugees. Being the first one to do it would be significant. I think we would see a massive exodus of foreign companies and foreign people. As I said, there's also the fact that Irish people don't want to take that approach as well.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838804#Comment_121838804

Just argue that we shouldn't take them at all.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121837768#Comment_121837768

"You will not pass through any immigration control when you enter the UK from Ireland across the land border, so you don’t need any documents to enter the UK on that route."

And

"You will never go through immigration control at the land border between Ireland and Northern Ireland."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/common-travel-area-guidance#:~:text=Under%20the%20CTA%2C%20British%20and,welfare%20benefits%20and%20health%20services.

You missed a bit with the screenshot , tabby !

It's different via ferry and plane, documents are generally needed . Not necessarily passports though , other ID accepted .

Montage of Feck

Hopefully the message goes out that if you come to Ireland as a single man seeking asylum, you get a tent and 40 quid a week. I'm guessing the government do too and might not be surprising if some of the opposition might lower the volume on the issue as well.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838857#Comment_121838857

”a massive exodus of foreign companies”

Unless they ended up paying more than they needed to for staff or their taxes were changed I think you’d be mistaken.

mistersifter

Over 13.000 international protection applicants last year, at least 70% were undocumented.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838844#Comment_121838844

Yep , every year ...about ten years now I think .

You didn't notice ?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838879#Comment_121838879

Where is your link on that ?

You've said a figure in three different posts now with nothing to back it up .

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838863#Comment_121838863

So that's all you have to come up with in answer to my post. You make a statement about "implications for ireland" and yet when I ask what are those implications, this all you can come back with? Either you are here on a wind up or else you can't answer the question and therefore throw put the usual deflection

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838956#Comment_121838956

Admonishment as Ash J said and also monetary fines unless Ireland agrees to take an allocated amount .

I am sure the poster has posted on this before here .

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838879#Comment_121838879

No, it's clearly not an easy choice. So you think all refugees should be asked to leave? Do you think all Ukrainians should be asked to leave?

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838956#Comment_121838956

Read the thread. I answer the exact same question a post above. I don't want to spend my time repeating myself when I don't need to.

You must be on the wind up if you think Ireland being first the first ever Western country to refuse to take any asylum seekers would have zero negative implications tbh.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121839024#Comment_121839024

Not really. I'm one of those 84%. Having people sleeping is tents is ridiculous. The government have completely failed to uphold their responsibilities to asylum seekers.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838589#Comment_121838589

I think the increasing concern over the numbers that have arrived from Ukraine, the benefits and exemptions granted them, the resources diverted to housing them, the recent story of the massive amount of money spent on rescuing their PETS as well, and the changes now to several of these points by Government in response to said concern shows that in fact the majority of the population HAVE had enough and want to see limits/controls put in place.

As I've said many times before, I have complete sympathy with their plight and condemn the actions of Russia, BUT I feel no responsibility for it or for resolving it (that latter part lies with their leaders and whatever settlement is ultimately arrived at) and I question the motives of anyone who travels from one end of Europe to the other (skipping through all the countries in between) to land on a small island - especially when there are (as shown on that BBC graphic I posted a few days back) huge areas of their own vast country not involved in the conflict zone, and when the Ukrainian foreign minister has called on them to return.

It's not our fight, Russia certainly doesn't care about our opinion (and if anything likely welcomes the destabilising effect that their actions have had in Europe), and we will have no influence on whatever the resolution is.

You talk about Ireland’s response to the refugee situation of WW2, 80 years ago!! I dare say that very few if any of us posting here were around back then and it's easy to look back now and condemn and - I'll grant you - probably rightly so, but as I said, the mistakes of the past shouldn't shackle us in how we address the problems we face today.

You are dismissing the hundreds of millions (up to 2 billion this year) that is spent on foreign aid but all of this comes out of the same finite pot, and as we've seen, giving to one means taking from someone else.

You talk about our moral duty here but what about our moral, constitutional, legal and political obligations to the Irish state and her people? We don't elect politicians to put the needs and interests of randomers ahead of our own. We expect them to work towards fixing the issues we have, and improve things for the future - not make everything exponentially worse in an ill-judged crusade to show the rest of Europe how charitable we are!

What benefit is it to anyone to see communities stretched to breaking point? Who benefits from putting people in fields? Where's the advantage of putting an already broken healthcare system under even more pressure? How do tourist communities benefit from having their hotels and other buildings repurposed to holding dislocated frustrated people with nothing to do?

As I've also said many times, charity begins at home and that's where our efforts need to be to address the long standing fundamental issues in core services and infrastructure that everyone is negatively affected by. Once we have a handle on that, THEN we can think about the needs of others (which doesn't necessarily mean bringing them and their problems home) - but again, let's not forget that we are ALREADY giving 2 BILLION euro to the needy of the world.

Your position is undoubtedly from a sense of charity and empathy and that's commendable for sure, but all such things still have to make sense in the real world of economics, politics and social support and THAT is where the whole house of cards falls apart I'm afraid.

That's why the polls are showing that people have had enough, why protests and unfortunately more extreme forms of resistance have increased, and why the Government has belatedly started to take note and actions (albeit from a sense of self preservation in upcoming elections).

There's only so much we can do given our own needs, problems, and resources. That's not inhumane. That is life!

mistersifter

The concept of a list of "safe countries" is strange in itself.

A list of UNSAFE regions where wars are ongoing would be more effective. If an applicant is not from an area on the unsafe list - appli

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838895#Comment_121838895

Agree with this. The Gardai have in recent weeks actually been arresting some undocumented arrivals. But there is not enough holding space to do this on a large scale. Unfortunately a tent and 40 quid is actually an acceptable prospect for some.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121839067#Comment_121839067

"General sense". That's very definitive. Does that mean you are now saying we should refuse entry all foreigners?