Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006342#Comment_122006342

That's not true .

Whenever people post about NGOs here its stated ALL , or never the actual NGO in particular they have a problem with .

All I ask is that people be specific , name the NGO , post the problems and evidence instead of random opinion or conjecture .

This is some people's livelihoods and life's work they are libelling, so its incumbent on posters to be very specific.

"Then you're trying to claim ignorance of well-publicised scandals and reports"

Now that is a Big Fat Lie ...where have I said that ?!

Of course scandals do and have happened, same as anywhere else . Some years ago and complete changes in mission and ethos as well as those at the top of those charities have been instigated sometimes by the charities themselves or by government.

You are talking about a handful but of course by not being specific you tar every NGO !

But show me where those issues have not been dealt with and good governance proven before funding is reinstated ?

That's where I am at, Kaiser. I am tired of posters that soapbox but can't back up a single thing they say or aren't bothered to when they are posting half truths with impunity anonymously online .

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006342#Comment_122006342

You are having a laugh here. This thread is littered with NGO conspiracy posts.

Use the search function yourself, you would have to be joking to pretend there aren't plenty of posters who post conspiracy accusations at all NGOs in this very thread.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006847#Comment_122006847

Thing is, it is a conspiracy theory that is being disseminated by certain groups who would benefit from your ordinary person with an issue ,( health disability , gender or racial inequalities, in this case its asylum seekers and especially Ukrainians at the moment ) not having access to support, advice and advocacy .

IIt's not just here on this thread its worldwide.

Some NGOs are being defunded in countries that gave right wing governments.

We all know who would benefit from Ukrainians not being able to seek refuge safely in other countries and get help...also legitimate aid workers and NGIs delivering humanitarian aid being targeted .

People then read this stuff about the "big bad evil " NGOs and the schtick that is printed in rags that support this action and don't differentiate between the different organisations . It is then dragged here from conspiracy fora and sites like X and Telegram and printed as FACT .

That is why I ask for the names and objective evidence of what is being posted.

Still waiting ....

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006240#Comment_122006240

We do have disproportionate number of NGO's who lobby government . The full social welfare for Ukrainians and payment for pets has NGO all over it .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008516#Comment_122008516

I don't know but whoever sighed off on that needs their heads examined , awful stuff .

Some are disproportionately funded more than others and it is really surprising the ones that don't get much but still do amazing work .

We all know who are getting all the funding with this government and it is not a good thing .

SSshhhh..

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008516#Comment_122008516

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yeah **** the IMND and their lobbying of government. Am I right rgossip?

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008603#Comment_122008603

Did I say all NGO's were bad 😔 😔 😔

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008603#Comment_122008603

I was referring to lobbying for asylum seekers and refugees can you read .

Furze99

We heard of the difficulties at Crooksling recently in south Co.Dublin. Trouble is apparently now brewing around the Blessington area and specifically at a former corporate type conference facility called Kippure House. Locals are reporting on facebook that there is a lot of traffic to and fro from the site, which is behind locked gates. Rather shocking though are photos of what looks like significant amounts of blocks of housing that are being constructed. There have been no planning applications apparently and as many locals are pointing out, Wicklow is one of the most difficult counties to get planning permission for.

Local county councillor Gerry O'Neill has advised as follows "This was brought to my attention just over a week ago and with regards the housing units I was informed about 4 weeks ago. I immediately contacted enforcement in WCC and understand there are buildings in place without planning permission. I also contacted Minister O'Gorman . This is a very serious matter and over the past few weeks I have been contacted by quite a few people in the Kilbride area who are very concerned. I help many people seeking planning for one-off housing and know how difficult it can be...and then this! I will have updates within the next week or so. I am also arranging a Public Meeting within the next 2 weeks and will publicise same."

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009418#Comment_122009418

"We do have disproportionate number of NGO's who lobby government."

No you were referring the nebulous and more conspiratorial "NGO's" you didn't specify. It might in fact be much easier if you actually identify a particular NGO you have issue with rather than use vague accusatory language at all NGOs.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009868#Comment_122009868

Off the top of my head The Refugee Council .

The list below shows NGO's who deal with asylum and refugees and help with legal advice .

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.unhcr.org/ie/sites/en-ie/files/legacy-pdf/60daf1bb4.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj-rtOx1LyFAxWuUGcHHb7JBq8QFnoECCsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0BEM8UNE5RKAaK4om1UUTx

https://gript.ie/irish-refugee-council-demand-budgetary-preparation-for-millions-of-climate-migrants/

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009940#Comment_122009940

Is the attached a list of NGOs you dislike?

I mean its more than a list of NGOs but do you dislike them all or what was I supposed to use the list for?

Notable mentions from your list for the;

Citizens Information (Citzens disinformation amirite)

Office of the Ombudsman (The NWO man)

The Irish Red Cross (Isn't it always suspicious how the red cross show up in warzones?)

Free Legal Advice Centre (I cant believe these f words are offering free legal advice, completely unbelievable. Has someone thought about the constitution and <insert reference to constitutional referendum result>)

That isn't the end of the notable mentions but I am only on page five and the document is twenty eight pages long and I cant keep this joke going.

prunudo

why on thread about immigration, would posters be complaining about the IMNDA, its fairly obvious its asylum related NGO's they're referring too.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009818#Comment_122009818

I hadn't heard about Kippure house, they're doing same nearby to me. Totally underhanded tactics by the department. Going behind the backs of elected officials and council staff.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010485#Comment_122010485

I think you should check out the list of "NGO's" who help asylum seekers as provided by rgossip before saying that.

Would the IMNDA help a refugee with motor neuron disease?

I'm not sure they would refuse to help so seemingly that might make them an issue for rgossip based on the list provided.

https://www.unhcr.org/ie/sites/en-ie/files/legacy-pdf/60daf1bb4.pdf

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009818#Comment_122009818

Kippure House/Estate is owned by Quanta Capital who are heavily involved in the AS industry already

'Goldstein Property also owns premises in East Wall and at Airways Industrial Estate, Santry, which have also been used to accommodate persons claiming International Protection.

One of the directors of Quanta Capital, Eoghan Coughlan, is also listed as a director of Goldstein Holdings Limited, registered in the Isle of Man, and Goldstein Properties UK. 

Barrister Joe Christle is also registered as one of the directors of Goldstein Properties UK and the founder and CEO of Quanta Capital, Mel Sutcliffe is listed as a “person of significant control” in the company. 

Christle is also currently the Chair of Quanta Capital. Happily, and surely a sign that “past dissensions” have been set aside, Christle and Sutcliffe, two scions of legendary Dublin republican families, now have on their advisory board Lady Alice de la Poer Beresford. 

Lady Alice oversees the Quanta-owned Kippure estate and Kippure Lodge which provides accommodation for asylum seekers and is managed by another company that is connected to the Ballsbridge principals'. 

https://gript.ie/who-are-the-companies-who-regard-ballsbridge-and-other-asylum-centres-as-prime-investments/

As a fella on the VM TV show the other night said - "follow the money"

Why wouldn't you come to Ireland and trash your passport when you may get accommodated somewhere like Kippure Estate -

Tripadvisor - "Kippure Estate is a luxury event venue, set within our 250 acre estate surrounded by the spectacular views of the Wicklow Mountains. Our beautiful estate comprises of our purpose built wedding pavilion, river side church, guest houses, traditional Irish bar and conference centre all located just 15 minutes from Blessington…"

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010947#Comment_122010947

Well I suspect the crap is about to hit the fan in Kippure Estate. It looks as if a substantial block of housing has been erected but not yet completed and all without planning permission. Could the owners have been betting on claiming retention after it's built and appealing to the department for support? Reckless if the case as you couldn't possibly hide that degree of building activity. Maybe the council will now move to approve? Who knows.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010485#Comment_122010485

Nope .

Its not obvious what is being complained about. And is tarring all NGOs non specifically.

Is it to much to ask on a thread of over 10,000 posts that people follow some sort of system which is fair to everybody posting ?

..Name and link to issue if stating as a matter of fact .

..If it's opinion then say that and everyone can take it or leave it .

I thought that was the standard expected ,🤔

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011990#Comment_122011990

I was at a wedding there a few years ago and there were houses for accommodation there then. They were very much in disrepair. Did they add more houses ? It backs on to a woodland so not sure where they could fit it unless you build where they put the marquee for weddings which was a small space on a small hill.

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011990#Comment_122011990

Is it not the case that all planning permission rules go out the window when it comes to housing the special ones?

Planning permission will not be required to convert buildings to house refugees for the next two years due to “unprecedented numbers” seeking protection in Ireland, Minister of State for Housing Malcolm Noonan has told an Oireachtas housing committee.

“This temporary change of use planning exemption will assist the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and his Department in providing much needed accommodation for persons seeking international protection at a time where there is unprecedented demand for their services.”

The move would enable the use of a “wide list of buildings and structures to accommodate or support persons seeking international protection,” he said. However, the exemption would not apply to the use of protected structures if the conversion would “materially affect” the building.

The amendment will expire on December 31st 2024, with the use of the buildings to house refugees ending at this point, he said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2022/11/17/no-planning-permission-needed-for-two-years-on-converting-buildings-to-house-ukrainian-refugees/

That headline from the IT is a tad misleading as it seems to relate more to IPAs than UA refugees

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012055#Comment_122012055

There are recently taken photos on Facebook that show a block of new buildings, shells built not finished, on a construction site and apparently what is raw sewage flowing into the Liffey. It's said there that the owners could be taking in near €7 million annually for provision of emergency accommodation services. But local county councillors are getting the heat now from disgruntled Wicklow residents who've found it very hard/ impossible to get planning for their children etc. So there'll likely be a lot more clarity in a week or two at which point the national media will doubtless get involved.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012377#Comment_122012377

The key here is that the above provision is for the conversion of existing buildings. Apparently modular i.e. temporary buildings also fall under this exemption. What is being constructed at Kippure Estate are permanent dwellings, that's clear from the photos.

_Kaiser_

I'm belatedly watching that "is Ireland Full?" programme on Virgin here at the moment and on balance, I'm surprised that the concerns and questions were given air time, rather than just the advocates/NGOs/politicians.

Also interesting is the lack of an overarching narrative/narration from the programme makers as you'd get with RTE. Instead it's letting the interviewees (for and against) have their say in their own words. Put the arguments out there and let the audience hear both sides without a bias over the top.

More of this is needed in this country. Not just on this issue, but a host of others. It's a pity we can't rely on our State broadcaster to do it but fair play to Virgin for filling that gap.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010464#Comment_122010464

I thought you could work out the ones who lobby . Yes take out the ones you mentioned that's a start .

This report shows the extend of philanthropy and how outsiders influence government.

https://gript.ie/atlantics-woke-dollars-continue-to-influence-public-discourse-in-ireland/?ct=t(EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_5_17_2022_13_19_COPY_01)

https://gript.ie/the-exponential-growth-in-irish-ngos-spurred-by-foundation-grants/

Patrick2010

There’s a classic tactic done by a number of posters to derail the thread by introducing a side issue, as in here bringing in NGOS dealing with motor neurone disease in a thread discussing immigration

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122014098#Comment_122014098

Standard practice since the start of this immigration debacle. It used to be lumping in legimate immigrants, who are here on visa's and are most welcome with the chancers turning up at the airport and claiming they have no documents.p

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013997#Comment_122013997

Those articles are written by Gript .

Gript does a piece almost every day slagging off NGOs .

No wonder you found them there 😁

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015442#Comment_122015442

It balances nicely with the nauseating hagiography of the New To The Parish stories.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121977241#Comment_121977241

The subject was brought up by this poster on the side against , discussing " NGOspheres "!

If you don't like the answers don't ask the question .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015502#Comment_122015502

Yes but of those articles only one was linked here as an example .

Gript however is a constant companion to posters here wanting to make an ill informed , unverifiable and biased point

Wait now and I will link a New to the Parish every single time I am making a point here !

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015276#Comment_122015276

On the contrary it is standard practice to refute said ' lumping together ' by posters who don't appear to be able to tell the difference between ' legal ' and 'illegal' immigration .