Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080641#Comment_122080641

Lol, to be fair the wealth disparity between north and south is approaching the difference between UK and Rwanda

No disrespect, but I think you are incredibly naive. I think we are a great solution for both the UK and mainland Europe as Goverments look to stem the rise of the far right ahead of elections. We are about to get a very tough lesson. Migrants can literally be funneled off the continent, up through the UK over to the North and into the ROI.

Geographically we are perfect and may end up harbouring all of Europe's excess migrants.

Pure speculation but I feel non contribution to NATO and Europe's green eye at our tax policy has a part to play in all this. Add a lashing of our justified stance on Israel.

I don't expect much support from Europe tbh. Grim, I think I'll close the laptop early today and head for the pub.

StrawbsM

The 1950s refugee convention needs looking at again. The only European country I know of that has broached the subject was Denmark. The entire system needs an overhaul and embassies and consulates throughout the world should be used as processing centres.
Travel to the nearest embassy/consulate of the country you would like to claim asylum in. No more arriving at the final destination unless the neighbouring country/countries you’ve come from are at war.

Edit: or natural disaster

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080712#Comment_122080712

We are a great solution for the UK and mainland Europe, we are the end of the line, the next stop after us is the US, so they can just funnel the migrants this way and we then have to deal with it. We need to start making this a less attractive destination for illegal migrants. If this means we set up Mosney style camps as IPAS centres and then have a quick turn around in processing the applications and strict deportation process, none of this voluntary deportation or leave to remain BS. Once your application fails you are gone.

One question that gets asked on here where do you deport them too? Well they can have 2 choices, return to their country of origin or we strike a similar Rwanda deal and anyone that application fails we deport them there and from there the applicants can decide what to do. We have a lot pull factors attracting migrants, now we need to create a lot of push factors as well.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080747#Comment_122080747

The current govt is not going to enact a Rwanda style deal.

Once the UK is designated a safe country, migrants that arrived over the land border could be returned to NI. But they could also come back again.

To stop them from returning to Ireland, there would need to be a removal of benefits, once they were identified as having passed through the safe country, backed up by finger print evidence/ biometrics etc.

I dont see our govt being able to A) police this or B) having the desire to do so.

Aontu are probably gaining more ground here as they are proposing a sea border for people into the island of Ireland.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080428#Comment_122080428

That seems an exaggeration from him. Although arrivals into the state in Q1 are a bit up on last year, it's definitely not double the numbers from 2023.

Longing

Anyone else see the scenes outside the Irish times in Dublin. Its on X.

https://twitter.com/randompadd80784/status/1785236712899186747?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1785236712899186747%7Ctwgr%5Ea09c15d145946abfed4e6dfbbf5976f35adae348%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublish.twitter.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Frandompadd80784%2Fstatus%2F1785236712899186747

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080811#Comment_122080811

I read about 5,100 Jan to March. So 25k including a spike in the summer seems reasonable.

And thats before the Rwanda factor.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080784#Comment_122080784

Aontu are probably gaining more ground here as they are proposing a sea border for people into the island of Ireland.

Is this a realistic proposal short of the achievement of actual Irish aontu?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080841#Comment_122080841

Who knows, but thats a different question.

My point was that they are likley to gain ground with the suggestion, when you consider the mood of the nation on the subject.

MrMusician18

Do we need a Rwanda policy? We certainly need a far tougher system than one that ultimately depends on applications only being made in good faith. Such a system is open for abuse.

A good question is what has stopped government to date from taking a harder line which acknowledges the reality of human behaviour - when you present an opportunity to be taken advantage of, you will be taken advantage of. Direct provision was borne out of such reality based grounded thinking, provision of housing and shelter to meet requirements but be so restrictive as to be undesirable. What happened?

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080857#Comment_122080857

What we need is a policy where any airlines flying (and ferries, Eurostar) into UK and Ireland takes the passports off the non EU and UK passengers on boarding at the gate and hand them to immigration desk on arrival

failure to do so be fined at one million euro per paperless refugee

pc7

I was on a flight from the UK the weekend, once we came off the plane there were 2 immigration officers checking for passports. Now I dont know if this is a new policy or they were looking for someone, first time its happened me. We still went on then to passport control.

BlueSkyDreams

What is interesting is this development with the Rwanda/UK issue is that it's the first time the govt has mobilised a response towards restricting the number of asylum seekers coming into the country.

Is this a watershed moment?

I am not sure about that, but the govt do seem to have acknowledged that some restrictions are required. And once you acknowledge that, its difficult to go full open border again without appearing hypocritical or contradictory.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080880#Comment_122080880

Having just 2 immigration agents checking passports for a flight of 180 people would take a very long time indeed…

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080887#Comment_122080887

which is why this needs to be done at departure gate where tickets are already checked, and passports of non UK, EU, US (insert other civilised countries here) are taken by boarding staff and handed straight to immigration desk at destination

Plus extreme fines for airlines for not policing documents which they should be doing

bloopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080823#Comment_122080823

Is that a load of blood on the ground?

What happened here?

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080857#Comment_122080857

Yeah but the problem I have with this view is that any system which allows any form of international travel or migration will always be open to abuse. The very existence of it is the basis for the abuse — and so it will always be abused in some shape or form. Vote in a right wing government tomorrow and I'd put the house on the likelihood that people would still be on this forum bemoaning the broken promises when the easy fixes prove to be not so easy fixes.

There is just is never going to be an answer to this. Immigration will be discussed and decried for the rest of our lives and, long after we are dead and gone, the Ireland-born descendants of Ukrainian refugees and other immigrants will also be decrying the latest example of non-Ireland born people coming over here etc.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080899#Comment_122080899

The boarding agents already check passports, but won't stop the trafficker from gathering up all the passports whilst the flight is in operation and de-boarding the aircraft without being searched or just dump them somewhere in the arrivals hall?

Longing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080920#Comment_122080920

Very little details at the moment

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080931#Comment_122080931

if you read what I wrote earlier

• boarding agent checks and takes passports off the non EU/UK/US/EEEA passengers at same time they check tickets
• Airline transports a box of these documents and hands them direct to immigration desk on arrival
• Immigration desk deals with each passenger and returns the documents as people are allowed in or makes the airline fly them back

It ain’t an alien concept, try to fly into USA without going through TSA and see what happens

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080712#Comment_122080712

Countries like France, Germany, Italy and Spain are receiving hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers (each) every year. It's simply not true that they are all heading to Ireland:

"In 2023, Germany received a quarter (25%) of asylum applications in the EU, followed by:

• France (16%)
• Spain (12%)
• Austria (11%)
• Italy (9%)

These five EU member states together received almost three quarters of all first-time asylum applications in the EU."

To keep things in perspective, Germany had 350,000 applications in 2023. We have had 5000 so far this year.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080928#Comment_122080928

You do not need to do anything of this - just make it not worth their while to stay/come in the first place. As I said hard decisions need to be made, It would require changing/enacting laws and stepping on peoples toes. Time for the bury our head in the sand approach to end.

For any country but especially for one as small as ours this entire situation is completely unsustainable and the less road blocks in the way, the more that will come.

Spanish Eyes

What about forwarding mandatory API (Advanced Passenger Information) to the destination airport/ferryport immigration desk? Losing your passport or destroying it is redundant then.

Every airline ticket I have bought requires me to insert my passport details so that information must be held somewhere. Any Data Protection issues can be amended by specific legislation surely.

Something tells me this can't be done for DP reasons, but why collect it in the first place?

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080971#Comment_122080971

like I said, slap the airlines with massive fines until they resolve what is an easily to solve problem of documents going missing “in flight”

Without documents these people could be anyone from terrorists to criminals to Russian spies

TRANQUILLO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080880#Comment_122080880

Been happening for years. Ive seen it many times on airlines arriving from the east. Immigration officials on the airbridge in Dublin Airport. Seen them dragging people kicking and screaming back onto the aircraft too. One heavy set black woman put up one of the best fights ever seen in approx 2011. They couldnt get her up the back steps.

A bit like breathalysers on a bank holiday weekend. Seemed to occur in line with the prevailing mood of the time.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080967#Comment_122080967

Yeah but I'd like to know what those hard decisions are. Because it's getting pretty tiresome seeing the endless merry-go-round on here of people who seem to revel in a "the government is stupid and incompetent" mindset while blissfully acting like their own views are exclusively common sense, exclusively for the benefit of the country and exclusively free of downsides (aside from an acknowledgement of downsides without ever specifying them).

What are the hard decisions then? What should Irish people be asked to tolerate as the price for ridding us of migration related issues?

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080957#Comment_122080957

So there's gonna be a border official working along with the young minimum wage under-pressure boarding agent who has to board the flight in 10 mins or so and securely box up a number of passports, securely carry them onto the aircraft and place them into a locked cabinet whereby on the other end of the flight more agents will take the box of passports, meet with an authorised official to transport the box and their owners separately to the passport control desk where the documents are further checked and anyone found to be an illegal is held at a facility in the airport to be placed on another flight and transported back to the departure country, e.g. the UK who will accept them back with no issues?

You sure you really thought this one through??

ToweringPerformance

The best way to deal with this at the moment is to offer these people nothing. Not a tent, not a hotel, not a hostel, no free money, no free food etc…. Make it as unbearable as possible and it won't take long for the word to get around their telegram groups that they aren't welcome and we aren't being played for suckers any longer

Emergency legislation is needed yesterday, if this was a banking emergency it would be sorted last week.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080784#Comment_122080784

How many were sent back pre Rwanda?

Between 2020 and 2023?

I'll give you a clue, somewhere between 0 and minus 1.

But now all of a sudden its a huge issue for McEntee.