Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084538#Comment_122084538

Virgin media journalists will give them a lift back into town to make another story out of it.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084452#Comment_122084452

I think it's more than just travel and physical restrictions which would be required. I think a big factor in the increase in migration in recent decades is ease of accessing information pretty much about anywhere in the world. Even back in the 80's, which is as far back of my personal experience of emigration from Ireland goes, Irish people for the most part moved where a family member, or somebody from their locality, had become established. It was a common pattern for somebody from a village, once settled, to take in a flow of people from their homeplace, helping them to get jobs, accommodation, bank accounts etc set up.

All that can be done so easily now, and for people coming to live undocumented etc, networks are and will be in place to offer, or promise these things, and to help transport or smuggle somebody into their country. Australia for all that they've been able to physically control people coming to their country are now struggling with 'almost industrial-scale' criminal enterprises exploiting immigration.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-04/immigration-visa-compliance-crackdown/102932864

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084563#Comment_122084563

Oh don't get me wrong — I think it's going to be bloody hard and I don't think the issue is ever going to go away fully. That's part of the reason why I also tend to believe that we do need a more conciliatory approach to those migrants and asylum seekers who do end up here — and not have people vilifying them at every turn and obsessing over every wrong thing any migrant ever did. The impossibility of actually tackling the issue perfectly means we also have to make the best of migration, instead of eternally kicking and screaming at it.

I have said before on this very thread that our proximity to countries openly hostile to Western interests is a reality we are stuck with, for now at least — and our geopolitical situation is probably the most challenging of any part of the developed world (something that those who hail the US, Australia and Japan need to recognise). The very things you mention in your post are the very things people should remind themselves of, to get themselves out of their little dream that migration problems are little more than the outcome of happy clappy lefties who want to save the world and NGOs or whatever other bogeyman. The issue is simply, and unavoidably, incredibly difficult.

But what I will say is that my view on it, in my own opinion, is one that you can actually get the European nations aligned on (something which is harder to achieve when it comes to, say, deportation cooperation and closing internal EU borders). And if you can get pan-European alignment on it, things become a lot more workable.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084510#Comment_122084510

2 coaches, 2 minibuses

https://twitter.com/attentivecee/status/1785601684430786830?s=46&t=IY-y8V-cxTAz1djkZYvB6A

https://twitter.com/lionchief101/status/1785602278486929551?s=46&t=IY-y8V-cxTAz1djkZYvB6A

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084479#Comment_122084479

Absolutely, I'd have no problem at all with a longer wait at Irish border controls in order to manage these matters properly. It's common enough across the world.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084564#Comment_122084564

More rigorous checks at border points would be acceptable. Bit of a pain but necessary.

emo72

3 lads at the bus stop across the road? Straight off the coach and heading back into Town already 😂?

Sunjava

I'm not quite sure as I don't think travel restrictions are the source of the problem. I think all EU states should be throwing the kitchen sink at manning the border of Europe. Nothing should be allowed across the Mediterranean or the far eastern borders. People coming from Albania etc should not be allowed board a flight to Ireland without a visa…the airlines need to get their asses in gear. There are always solutions.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082946#Comment_122082946

Well you know what? We have this wonderful thing called the Oireachtas which can readily change legislation and in days when needed.

Good to see more movement on this issue, a strong message to those thinking they can rock up and demand asylum. Now we need to defund agencies encouraging this with state monies and use our Garda & Defence Force resources at borders.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084655#Comment_122084655

Seen that. There was a Palestinian refugee interviewed the other night on the news saying there was a drug problem with a few people at the site.

Can't imagine being stuck in the mountains is appealing for such folk.

They went back to town before, whats to stop them doing it again. I would have thought the Govt would have moved them further into the country to stop similar footage. It could end up being more embaressment.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084655#Comment_122084655

no way! 😂 I only took a brief glance at them and thought nothing of it. The first coach started offloading on the roadside then the minibus went inside the gates. The coach then dangerously reversed into the direction of oncoming traffic and then went through the gates. Then the gates closed. There were no Gardaí with the first batch

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084655#Comment_122084655

Surely they'll prevent any of them from pitching camp at Mount Steeet this time?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084628#Comment_122084628

I think it will be very hard but I'm in agreement that it's the only feasible long-term approach.

The aid model between the west and global south does little but paper over the cracks. I think key on our side will be looking at how we trade with these regions. There have been countless examples of money flowing from western entities to militia's or deeply corrupt regimes. And we still see reports again and again on the abuses of labor that take place in producing products for consumption in western markets.

I think the EU has been quite successful for setting standards in some areas, which have gone on to be modelled elsewhere in the Western world. Setting precedents in how we trade with the global south is something we certainly can do, and I think over time the other western powers would fall in line. I certainly think the public will is there, despite what we see on threads like this.

emo72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084682#Comment_122084682

Yeah, I've seen it reported that they've fenced off Mount Street. HOWEVER they can't fence off the entire city. Who's gonna be the unlucky ones this time that wins the tent city lottery. It could be you!

gifted

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084491#Comment_122084491

Does it accept the Leap card?

CollyFlower

https://x.com/TheLiberal_ie/status/1785603498672812320

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084698#Comment_122084698

the fencing looks like its protecting the basements only / it’s not like they have fenced off the footpath, unless they completely fenced off/closed the lane by the office.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084457#Comment_122084457

It’s been a lot longer than a year. For almost a decade people have been saying that this would never happen to Ireland, we’d only get the “good” refugees, the doctors and engineers. Once that was proven wrong it was that we’d never see tent cities in Ireland as the numbers wouldn’t want to come there. Then it was “far right” to complain. Now we’ve broadcasters calling the people of Europe who are against this “terrorists”.

It’s time to defend the borders of Europe.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084702#Comment_122084702

Aye! And a heroes escort not seen since Italia 90!

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084452#Comment_122084452

An analogy to this problem are the arguments surrounding 'climate change'.

Do we as a state bring in measures that will attempt to limit the damage caused by our citizens? Even though we are tiny in terms of the overall problem. And when these measures can be costly and limiting to the population.

Or do we spend our resources and time on mitigating the effects of 'climate change'. Managing it and limiting it's downsides on our territory as there's little we can do about elsewhere.

Which gives better bang for our buck?

We can help and I think we should with self help development in say Africa in our own limited way. But we can't tell other EU states to do the same, we/they may agree to do this but we can't enforce implementation if some don't. At the end of the day, we can only attempt to control what we can and that is what happens within our own borders.

And that's where our focus should be.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084611#Comment_122084611

I don't think it's unrealistic at all. Deals of this nature already exist between the EU / EU countries and origin nations. There have been migrant route co-operation initiatives in place with Burkina Faso, Chad, Egypt, Libya, Niger, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia, Sudan, Tunisia, Nigeria and other nations and further work is being done on this at the EU level. I mean, personally, I don't really see what else we can actually really do. You aren't going to deter asylum seekers by pretending conditions are so crap that it's not worth trying— because they are absolutely going to keep trying.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084722#Comment_122084722

That's fair enough but I think that if you desire to see a self-sufficient domestically focused migration policy in Ireland that achieves the things you want in any sustainable way, you are doomed to a lifetime of abject disappointment. That's your choice, but you'll still be an unhappy camper on the Boards threads of days to come.

Once people are here, dealing with them is difficult. We can fantasise all we want about an efficient deportation program that works every time and every one just happily goes along with it forever — but the reality, as I see it, is that we will achieve very little unless it's based on a pan-European / EU aligned policy re the external borders.

Furze99

The locals up about Brittas & Crooksling must be fuming - steamrollered by the state. Lost their nursing home and right of way, hundreds of young men whipped off the streets and landed in. I wouldn't want to be any local or other politician canvassing thereabouts in the next while!

gerogerigegege

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084554#Comment_122084554

What gets me is it's being forced on us.

What gets me is those responsible eg Simon coveney and Leo vomitir have walked away like they've done nothing wrong.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084724#Comment_122084724

No need to pretend - make condition's crap. People can argue the pros and cons all they want, Nigeria is 7000 km away, Vietnam is 10000 km. No one needs to travel that far to seek asylum.

Anyone looking to come here for a better life is not our problem. To put it harshly, apply for a visa or jog on. We are not a charity.

If you do not protect what you have, it will be taken from you. Ireland knows this better than most but it would seem we forget this some where along the way.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084724#Comment_122084724

Some of the most unstable countries in the world there, and to take one of those you mentioned, Ethiopia as an example of a Government which is relatively stable with their Capital city being quite prosperous too then what hope have lesser nations got to have working deals with the EU?

https://www.reuters.com/world/eu-restricts-visa-provisions-ethiopian-nationals-2024-04-29/

"The European Union has decided to restrict its visa provisions for
Ethiopian nationals due to a lack of co-operation from Ethiopia's
government over repatriating those who stay illegally, the EU Council
said on Monday."

gerogerigegege

No one asked for this. No one consented to this. This is a problem that must stop.

https://twitter.com/mick_o_keeffe/status/1785598338118701246/mediaviewer

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084683#Comment_122084683

The global south's priority is not a relationship with the West but with the rest instead and increasingly so.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084773#Comment_122084773

About 30,000 people have died trying to cross the Mediterranean in the last decade.

What do you suggest that would deter somebody so desperate as to attempt one of those crossings?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084669#Comment_122084669

Ireland are not going to be the one country that disregards human rights or the Geneva Convention, no matter how much you want it. It's just not going to happen