Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

willyvanilla

As I said above, the entirely sensible policy is to allow migration be dictated by infrastructure construction the previous year.

X amount of housing built in 2025? That means maximum X amount migration, net total, in 2026.

With a very significant chunk ring fenced toward alleviating the crises, to the tune of 80 or 90%. Seeing as it's a housing "crisis" and not housing "inconvenience".

Who could disagree with that? Surely that's a policy everyone can agree upon, isn't it?

Plus it would also reign in our "booming economy" and bring it level to reality where it actually means something positive.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089257#Comment_122089257

These arguments are laughable and show zero logical thinking.

Irelands brain drain was terrible, but draining Africa is a-ok. How are the countries meant to function if Europe is getting all of their doctors and engineers??

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089664#Comment_122089664

Agreed. Capacity planning is the answer.

Having a plan that shows the capacity we have for accomodation and couples that figure with the estimated influx of asylum seekers is the only way to succesfully manage the issue.

Accomodation in the pipeline is factored in to the equation, including availability dates.

Its the obvious end game and we will get there. Eventually.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089551#Comment_122089551

it seems to be a sensible approach, but how do you stop immigration from the UK, EU? do we stop all work visas? what about shortage of workers? who exactly can you stop immigrating here? how could you possibly limit it to 5000, seeing as nearly 6 times that amount were returning irish citizens last year?

2023 saw 29,600 were returning Irish citizens, 26,100 were other EU citizens, and 4,800 were UK citizens

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2023/keyfindings/

saw this by crazy house prices the other day

acc. to government over 32000 new homes were built last year, only 27% of those were sold on the market.

94% of new housing in Dublin was apartments, 98% of which was for social or private rent

in 2017, 80% of housing estates were sold on the market, 2023 that was just 52%

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089409#Comment_122089409

They countries they have passed through have taken way more refugees than us. Th enumber in Ireland are tiny in comparison. 13,275 applications in Ireland last year as opposed to 351,510 in Germany, 166,880 in France or 162,420 in Spain.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/asylum-applications-eu/

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089296#Comment_122089296

they’re here for the free stuff.

slay55

The future looks depressing

a country where the majority can’t or won’t speak English. New generations living of benefits and expecting everything for nothing.

Workers not on any social welfare benefits unable or to buy or rent a home, whilst being taxed more to supplement them lot.

something has to change

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089686#Comment_122089686

All good points and I dont think the poster was referencing visa/working migrants.

They wont move here unless they have secured and paid for their own accomodation. Plenty of them give up and dont come at all because they cant find housing stock.

But if we are talking about IPAs, there needs to be an accomodation capacity managed by the govt that links to inbound numbers which are restricted, in order to meet the accomodation capacity.

It will require EU/European border management and of course we are a long way from achieving that.

But it will happen, eventually.

dmakc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089691#Comment_122089691

You do realise absolute numbers don't work for your comparison?

If we were even half the French ratio considering we're an island, it's worrying. Yet we're above it.

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089691#Comment_122089691

That's irrelevant to the point in question which is that these people are not Asylum seekers as they have passed through many other safe countries.

I am well aware that Ireland so far has not had to shoulder the horrific burden of dealing with such crazy numbers.

The EU really needs to step up as this issue has been going on for far too long. If nothing is done, Europe as we know it will be finished. Even now, parts of Paris, Brussels and Berlin are unrecognisable and are rapidly becoming facimiles of the very countries that the migrants have left.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089257#Comment_122089257

You're conflating two issues.

I see almost no one who has a problem with legal immigration. We all work with plenty of men and women who've come from abroad. People who have come here through legal channels and are paying their own way, supporting their families. It's very disingenuous of you to say people are complaining about that.

What people are really furious is people coming here illegally and making dubious asylum claims. When you look at people here who are paying astronomical costs to rent or buy a place, of course it's going to destabilize social cohesion if you start giving them handouts. This isn't small beer either, government spending is increasing significantly, and that ain't because we are getting better health or education facilities!

Oh and one final thing. We don't blame the asylum seekers themselves. They are only doing what any logical person in their situation would do. I personally blame the government for their incompetent mishandling of all this.

willyvanilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089685#Comment_122089685

Everything can be solved easily enough with forethought.

One example, say nursing. There is apparently money to burn here, so how about initiating a full fledged program to increase nursing graduates in the country, increase funding, pay for their training hours, increase grants etc. Aim for something significant like a doubling of output with haste.

In 5 years time there'd be a boon. And in addition, thanks to infrastructure-led migration policy, you'd have somewhat cheaper housing and more housing, hence retention rates of graduates increasing.

No matter whats said, it really is that simple. The actual problem is the cohort of people who want the quickest, laziest, stupidest solution and they'll cry every inch of the way toward sustainability.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089449#Comment_122089449

Again not true.

You're confusing economic migration with asylum seeking,

Economic migrants who go to Australia and Ireland must show they can support themselves. So a doctor or nurse you may see in a hospital, or a foreign taxi driver you meet has been through a rigorous process of vetting and financial checking to be permitted to come here.

An Irish person going to Australia must go through a process.

Asylum seekers are different and both Ireland and Australia are bound by international treaties to accept them.

As of 31/01/24 32,40 refugees were awaiting a decision whilst 77,064 who had been refused a permanent visa were still in the country awaiting appeal or judicial review.

https://www.asyluminsight.com/refugees-and-people-seeking-asylum-in-the-australian-community

These people are all being cared for at the cost of the Australian state. No different to Ireland.

The amount of misinformation people believe about refugees without checking facts is frightening.

star61

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089296#Comment_122089296

Is it …Funny?

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089519#Comment_122089519

A lot of the stuff you say is urban myth based on nothing but anecdotes and twitter bile.

However there is a process and if it turns out their asylum claim is not genuine then they get deported. It's very simple.

In the meantime, whilst being processed, they have a right to be here as asylum seekers and the state must look after them.

Lotus Flower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089786#Comment_122089786

I’m specifically talking about Irish people going to Australia. Some posters here are saying that Irish people going abroad is no different to mass immigration here

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089513#Comment_122089513

You said yesterday that you acknowledged the majority were non genuine asylum seekers as per the department of justice.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/secret-department-of-justice-paper-urged-swift-renewal-of-deportations/a725249983.html

The department of justice may be lying or the situation changed but nevertheless you made your position known. Again, I'm not judging the desperate circumstance that might drive someone to sleep in a tent on mount Street but rather trying to follow your logic.

Is there a difference between someone falsely claiming asylum and an illegal immigrant?

BlueSkyDreams

Is the IPO office still closed for processing?

If so, why would the state bus people back to the office, if those people do not have accomodation?

Apparently there are 100 asylum seekers there waiting to be seen.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089820#Comment_122089820

"However there is a process and if it turns out their asylum claim is not genuine then they get deported."

Would ya get out of it - this is ridiculous. Even those involved in running the system and those politically in charge admit that this process is brutally slow, open to appeals, open to applicants just disappearing into the black economy. Virtually no one is or has been deported. The numbers are tiny.

You're the one with the myths!

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089730#Comment_122089730

Berlin was razed to the ground in the Second World War — a war between white Europeans — then partitioned with the Soviet Union and the Eastern half of the city subjected to a repressive enclosure by a **checks notes** white European communist government. That was still the case on the day I was born. And yet, we are somehow supposed to believe that migration has taken them from the heady heights of some of non-defined period of time to the apparently far, far worse and unrecognisable state that Berlin is in today?

Paris? A city which practically perfected and pioneered the art of violent civil unrest in the Revolution — then suffering a succession of wars and military invasions by white European enemies — and also continuing all the while to almost have a cultural tendency towards sporadic civil unrest and wrecking the place (the May 1968 riots were so ferocious that a revolution was feared and de Gaulle fled the capital). Oh yeah, things were just rosy in Paris until the migrants made it unrecognisable.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089382#Comment_122089382

The numbers range up and down, but it is a numbers game ultimately.

If you have 10,000 asylum seekers and lets say 7,000 are legit and 3,000 are fake, that's manageable, and even the 3000 can be accommodated in the short term.

If you have 100,000 asylum seekers and 30,000 are illegal that's a whole other ball game. The system now becomes overwhelmed and all asylum decisions, positive or negative are delayed, and the 30,000 are unlikely to be deported anytime soon, while the legit ones are also left in limbo.

But to answer your original point, not all migrants are legitimate asylum seekers.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089786#Comment_122089786

No , but I will tell what is frightening. A small island on the edge of Europe that has only joined the 1st World in the last decade , is acting like Billy Big balls on the international stage when it comes to many issues , including mass migration.

We have a broken health care and childcare system. In the middle of a huge domestic housing crisis. Ireland has one of the most fragile GDP bases in Europe and massive debts yet to be paid off. Yet some people think its just grand to accept all these economic migrants cos that's what they are.

Sorry for the rant but you really couldn't make this sh#t up.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089369#Comment_122089369

So that would be a yes then.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089820#Comment_122089820

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/04/24/fewer-than-100-deportations-of-those-refused-refugee-status-since-start-of-2023-mcentee/

Less than 100 deportations last year.

You are disseminating dis-information.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089903#Comment_122089903

What's frightening is that practically nothing you are saying is frightening is true.

tobefrank321

Double post.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089691#Comment_122089691

much bigger populations

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089388#Comment_122089388

In some ways its better, in many ways its far worse.

Housing its far worse as well as homelessness. Also hospital over-crowding seems to be at record highs these days.

And people, particularly younger people, seem to be more unhappy these days, unsurprisingly.

Cost of living worse these days also. Traffic congestion. I'm sure there's other areas.

There's no doubt some things are better, but the overall direction seems to be getting worse and each generation seems to have less aspirations that the previous ones.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089846#Comment_122089846

well, yes, because until proven otherwise every asylum seeker is exercising a legal right to claim asylum.

should their claim be rejected, for whatever reasons, and they do not leave the country, they are then illegal.

it is in everyones interests to speed up decisions on all claims, to months.

murpho999

Irish people going to Australia are not claiming asylum as we come from a safe country so your comparison is bogus.

However many arriving in Australia from China, India, Vietnam are claiming asylum which would be unsafe are claiming asylum and that's what should be compared to Ireland.

Thousands of legal economic migrants come to Ireland every year to live and work and pay their own way and go through a rigorous process to get here but that gets ignored.

Immigration is good thing that benefits the country but people just spread fear.