Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093181#Comment_122093181

I don't really understand all this stuff about "safe" countries. People are what make a country safe or not. If we are saying that there isn't a single safe country in Africa to even process asylum seekers then it follows that we should not take any asylum seekers from these countries as they would be highly likely to be "unsafe".

The Rwandan government seem to think it's safe enough for foreign tourists to visit so they must consider it safe even for foreigners.

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093198#Comment_122093198

Labour won't be able to ignore this issue for too long either so they'll be forced to make hard choices also.

It will be interesting to see how they tackle it but it's not going away.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093112#Comment_122093112

Well.....

Don't Irish people still emigrate?

One poster says people should stay in their own countries and make them better....other poster points out that Irish people also emigrate when they see something better for themselves and don't hang around to make Ireland better. Is this not a reasonable thing to point out?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092812#Comment_122092812

Bestt solution by far

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093191#Comment_122093191

That's classic echo chamber thinking though isn't it?

I see it asked here again and again why RTE etc aren't representing the views of the people here.

The truth of the matter is that only significantly minority political candidates and parties are pushing the type of views commonly found here, such as hard borders, mass deportations, Rwanda, Denmark etc.

Nor is there any civil society or advocacy group pushing for these changes.

As a few of you are so fond of asking, 'what far-right?'

You'll have to get out from behind the keyboards and masked protests if you want your views heard.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093191#Comment_122093191

Why are people like yourself so obsessed with the term 'NGO'?

Any time I see these loons our protesting they're shouting about NGOs, as if it's some sort of bogeyman. I was even accused of being part of an NGO many times when debating with folks over on some right wing Facebook groups.

'Everyone I disagree with is in an NGO'

Not sure what that is about at all.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093109#Comment_122093109

This passed through argument is boring and not relevant

Um.. it absolutely IS! You may not be able to come up with a coherent response to that uncomfortable reality, but these people are supposedly seeking refuge from immediate dangers. Travelling through half a continent, and through many safe and stable countries in the process most definitely is at odds with that concept.

The countries you claim they passed through also take a huge allocation of refugees, more than Ireland

You are aware of the concept of proportionality I assume? Those countries are physically much larger, in many cases with far bigger populations, resources and abilities than a small island of 5 million people with huge domestic problems already.

Also, those countries will make their own decisions on what's enough - just as we should be doing

People may come to Ireland for various reasons…

Then they're not really refugees or asylum seekers are they? They're economic migrants or opportunists. Not the same thing, and trying to circumvent our processes for managing economic migrants by claiming to be something else isn't acceptable either.

They're not obliged to stay in the first country…

Then they're not really refugees or asylum seekers are they? They're tourists seeking the best reception. A genuine refugee/AS would be happy to find the first, closest port that would offer safety from the imminent threat they were fleeing. Skipping on through several other countries belies that concept.

But again, even if you find it uncomfortable, the reality is that these people are not forced/obliged/required to stay here if the conditions are not to their liking. I can understand why it's not, but they are free to leave and try to find a country more to their liking or expectations. It's not for Ireland to solve all their problems and desires (and especially not at the cost it's having to our own needs), nor are we obliged to rehouse the 3rd world just because they land at our door with a (potentially false) sad story.

Misguided idealists like yourself are just as much part of the problem as the weak politicians and chancers. You're helping no-one but cheerleading a situation that is worsening for everyone. That, or you're sufficiently insulated from the reality of what's happening (as most TDs are) that the pontificating and grandstanding just comes off as wholly divorced from that reality and in fact stokes more resentment as a result.

thegame983

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093250#Comment_122093250

The recent referendum proved that it is the government/media/ advocacy groups who live in an 'echo chamber.'

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093233#Comment_122093233

For the umpteenth time theres no comparison with an Irish person applying for a work visa in the US, Canada, Australia etc, supporting themselves there and a lad coming from Africa to Ireland via numerous safe countries and expecting to be housed and supported here. No one has an issue with people applying to work here, I work with loads of different nationalities. Its the free loaders people have an issue with, nothing to do with racism.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093248#Comment_122093248

It would not be easy to do, but morally and in everyone's interests it would be the best solution. Safe transport of legitimate migrants to Europe I would prefer, rather than them being at the mercy of traffickers and gangs in North Africa and Asia.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093264#Comment_122093264

Not sure what to make of the term " people like yourself "

My only gripe with NGO's is the fact that they are taxpayer funded , paying themselves fat salaries and in my opinion do little more than rant and rave advocating policies that are very little benefit to the average irish taxpayer.

Just to address another reference to masked protesting. 100% have no time for such intimidatory tactics. But also 100% think that something will have to change and soon because society in Ireland is at a tipping point.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093270#Comment_122093270

the referendum really tells us nothing more about the political leanings of the general population than that they did not agree with amendments proposed.

You can of course assume the entire electorate agrees with you on everything based on agreeing with you on rejecting the two questions in a referendum but you have to understand others may assume anyone doing so is not the most clued in individual.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093270#Comment_122093270

They're an unpopular government undoubtedly.

But still only 30% of the population voted against those bills, and it looks like even then you're assuming that this 30% hold more extreme views on immigration, with no evidence whatsoever.

The same thing with that Daily Mail poll, 80% having concerns about immigration becomes 80% support Rwanda, or hard border etc.

_Puma_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093191#Comment_122093191

Nail on the head.

Our politicians arent listening to us. McDowell demonstrated it in the referendums.

They don't listen to us because there is more money being made with the alternative and something else has their ear.

They demonstrated with NTMK that they don't fear us either.

But there is a big change in wind coming this summer.

The NGOs(tools for a means to an end) who have the ear of the current government will be hedging their bets for who gets in next. This is why you will always hear them say "who is the alternative"

That I believe is the biggest threat to actually getting to grips with this crisis enveloping the country now. It should and will be called out at every opportunity given. There is always an alternative in an open democracy.

Its gone beyond a left v right debate now in my opinion. It's boiling down to a common sense issue at base level and the Irish people are thankfully good with this. The NGOs and their cheerleaders on this thread have perfectly shown they aren't too good on this front. It's why their playbooks have failed across Europe. Hopefully it's not a case we are Paddy last to realise this here too.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093267#Comment_122093267

Great Post 👏👏👏👏

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093281#Comment_122093281

Again, another example of someone just flying off on the basis of assumed points that absolutely no one is making or arguing with you about. So let's rewind this back:

- One contributor says that foreign people should remain in their own countries to make those countries better.

- Other contributor points out that Irish people also emigrate, so they don't stay in Ireland to make Ireland better.

- Your response is : YEAH BUT IRISH PEOPLE DO IT LEGALLY!! Well, I'm looking around the room here and I must say I'm failing to see who is arguing otherwise. It's not the point being made.

But even if we make it the point. To say there is "no comparison" between Irish migrants and migrants here. Really? Zero comparison? There is literally no comparison to be made between two people who leave their country and move to another country and take up housing in that other country and also avail of the services of that country that could otherwise have been taken up and availed of by the native population of that country? There is no comparison there? Zilch?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093094#Comment_122093094

So you agree with intimidating politicians families?

gerogerigegege

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093191#Comment_122093191

I feel you anger and frustration.

None of us should have a wreckless government making us feel this way, having to check in to see what stupid crap they're up to everyday.

If this isn't stopped there will be serious civil unrest and my guess is it won't be directed at asylum seekers but those making the decisions.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093250#Comment_122093250

There was a poll recently which suggested that 90%+ of the public never interact with any political content on social media (instead they're watching and interacting with stuff like entertainment, sport, music, fashion, beauty, food, travel etc). It's very easy for an angry and shouty minority to give the impression they are speaking on behalf of the entire country.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093087#Comment_122093087

Ah go away, how many times has this old trope been recycled. It's past it's sell by date long ago. You need to come up with better reasons than that.

I have great admiration for those who did stay in Ireland and contributed to society and the state here.

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093394#Comment_122093394

This government is helping the far right prosper if you think about it.

The far right are emboldened at the moment due to this governments many many reckless decisions with immigration being top of the list.

None of us what to see hotels set a blaze, Gardai being attacked but when you have a government that doesn't listen to it's citizens and forcing their immigration policy on locals by taking away hotels etc, this is feeding ground for the far right to prosper.

gerogerigegege

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093264#Comment_122093264

NGOs like nasc, immigration council of Ireland don't believe in borders or the rule of law when it comes to immigration they are a cancer on the country.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093423#Comment_122093423

A lot more would have had to leave were it not for remittances coming home.

gerogerigegege

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093440#Comment_122093440

People burning buildings aren't far right.

They are ordinary people radicalised by a rogue failed government forcing changes on their communities.

Tbeyve been left with no other option.

Sunny Disposition

Everyone who wants to come to Ireland should be allowed. That’s the reality, it will make the world a better place if absurd concepts like borders are removed.

These people arguing against immigration make me laugh, you guys know Ireland had more people pre 1845 right?

Anyway no moves should be made this year, it is very important that we don’t end up doing anything that Trump would approve of, although we have our own idiots looking for a wall to be built.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093411#Comment_122093411

There was also another poll that showed 80%+ thought the increase in non nationals was a growing problem.

But you won't hear their views on RTE. RTE is now more under the thumb of government than it ever was. You'll rarely hear an interview with a politician these days there, that doesn't refer to funding of RTE in some shape or form. The message is clear.

The views such as you often represent are completely over represented on RTE. Just like the recent referendums, there is simmering distrust.

Downlinz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093469#Comment_122093469

There's this peaceful means of causing governmental change called an "election", you might have heard of it.

If it is widely considered a "rogue failed government" then the majority of the public need to accept some accountability for that since they were the ones who enabled it.

It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of protestors in rural areas were FF & FG voters, at what point do they hold themselves responsible rather than causing hotel owners and refugees to suffer for their mistake?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093479#Comment_122093479

Yep, send them to Hell or Connnacht. Plenty of room on the bogs down there where they can live in mud botháns and scrape out a few drills for spuds. That's how substantial numbers lived pre 1845.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093307#Comment_122093307

Quit deluding yourself. Some boxes in working class areas and other parts that have had to shoulder the worst of this nonsense had boxes with 90% no.

The government response to migrants over the last few weeks and the increasing harder rhetoric is a response to the absolute pasting they got in the referendum and in anticipation of the absolute hiding they will get in the locals.

It's quite clear that a majority are not happy with migration policy, mount skid, the taking over of hotels and the forcing of these centres on the population has made a significant proportion of the electorate quite angry.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093447#Comment_122093447

If that's the case, then why don't people talk about them specifically, rather than using a vague catch all term like 'NGOs'?

Is it perhaps because a lot of people shouting about NGOs don't actually know what they are shouting about specifically and are just parroting a phrase they've read on nationalistic Facebook groups?