Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384974#Comment_120384974

Probably another reason they'd hate to see a proper vote on immigration.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384961#Comment_120384961

Q1. No.

I don't think you understand the purpose of either a constitutional or ordinary referendum

Q2. No.

Really I just want you to propose the wording for your gotcha immigration referendum.

I also think you haven't considered and don't fully understand or maybe don't understand at all the purpose of referendum and the implications of a constitutional referendum.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383287#Comment_120383287

Absolutely, they can do what they want. As can the electorate

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385011#Comment_120385011

And do you think the majority of the electorate will vote for anti immigrant parties?

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384994#Comment_120384994

That's good to hear you'll support the existence of an immigration referendum for others then.

As I already said, the core question (repeating yourself is tiresome) is, essentially, do the people of Ireland want more, the same, or less of the immigration numbers thus far seen.

That core question is put through all the necessary calculable steps to arrive at economically sensible numbers.

FOR EXAMPLE, I repeat, for example, "given all the previous quality information provided, do you want total immigration capped at xxx per year"

It's not rocket science.

I want a politically actionable say in the farcical immigration non-policies of ireland. One way or the other.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385019#Comment_120385019

I think are boys votes there for a non toxic party that implements sensible policies. It's not being anti immigrant, it's showing a basic understanding of cause and effect.

160k pps numbers in a year and 30k houses, no real increase in GP numbers. Its not exactly going to solve the crisis is it (and its a crisis for all not just Irish people).

I'm writing this from A&E because I can't get any appointment with my GP inside the next week for my 6 month old. Chatting to others in here is the same experience (with one exception)

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385019#Comment_120385019

And Robbie I have no idea of your position.I suspect we would be closer on the issue than you think.

But you don't really offer what you think up for discussion

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385050#Comment_120385050

The dogs on the street know it.

I would have full confidence that if they were to build a hundred story skyscraper on Inis liathroidi, the thing would be full before the winter.

And then what?

More crying for more housing?

Time is well past for this dead-end logic. They've had near a decade to prove otherwise and they've failed miserably in proving that lack of housing is the primary problem.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384861#Comment_120384861

What are your thoughts on how we can solve this issue ? You’re quick to throw pelters but haven’t added anything remotely interesting.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384883#Comment_120384883

we ask them every so often, they always reject what you are looking for.

Mr. teddywinkles

All the various people of different ethnicity in the British parliament looking for better border control must be all racists too 🙄

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384916#Comment_120384916

there is no mass immigration to ireland.

there is small scale immigration, with a government who have refused to reform and invest in housing, and refuse to reform health and education.

those issues would still exist even with no foreigners, brown or black people in ireland.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385138#Comment_120385138

Where did the 160k plus PPS numbers granted in a single year to non nationals come from?

And I agree that those issues would exist regardless, but more people regardless of race, religion etc increases severity of the issues at hand.

No, everything is fine.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385138#Comment_120385138

Wrong. The figures over the last few years show otherwise. Keep sticking your head in the sand.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385075#Comment_120385075

Do I have to have a strongly held opinion to enter a discussion on a topic. Wouldn't that actually make everything very polarising?

Other posters are freely offering their opinion and I am engaging in discussion about the information shared on the thread.

You can ask any question of me you want but the question in your post can't really be answered.

I don't even know what you define as "the issue" for a start. So I couldn't really offer solutions on how to solve it.

If the question is I don't like immigration how do you stop it.

I still couldn't answer. I would have to ask what do you mean by immigration, is Ireland UK movement ok. What about EU. Do you want all students stopped. Are there other criteria your want applied to your immigration rules.

How could I know all this to solve it for you?

But if you offer this information, am I not allowed to discuss it?

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385105#Comment_120385105

I'm sure everyone else can remember having a DIRECT say on immigration in the country...I know I can't.

Can you point to a specific election or politically actionable event that had immigration at the forefront? Any particular year?

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385171#Comment_120385171

Do you have any opinion about the topic?

Actually dont bother

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385171#Comment_120385171

You really are tedious.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385107#Comment_120385107

they aren't looking for better border control as they had good border control but refuse to pay for the resources to enforce it, they are simply after votes from the far right who may be enough to get them back into power as they want to turn britain into a fascist state where only them and their donors have rights.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385138#Comment_120385138

Fella, are you mad?

From the cso themselves...

"17% of the total population are foreign born. 46% of them arrived in the last 5 years"

In other words, nearly 9% of the population has arrived here in just 5 years.

And the projections are for this to increase year on year.

There is a very, very small population in Ireland. It is very easily disrupted. You can see that borne out in the infrastructural problems such as housing and healthcare.

To say this isn't mass migration is just putting your head in the sand.

So no, those issues wouldn't exist if there weren't hundreds of thousands of extra people. Funnily enough!

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385170#Comment_120385170

actually, they don't.

the figures only show that immigration is happening, not mass immigration.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385229#Comment_120385229

Yep that sure is some going down the rabbit hole stuff right there. A free for all policy will lead exactly to what you describe. You do understand that too.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385249#Comment_120385249

So if 9% of the population arrived within the last 5 years, and that isn't mass migration to you...

could you give a rough estimate of what does constitute mass migration to you?

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385265#Comment_120385265

So immigration was never put to the Irish population in any politically meaningful way.

Just what I already knew. And everyone else.

I had to do a double take there, what are you waffling specifically about "brown people" for? What's that got to do with anything?

The day "brown people" take up double the space of a Japanese or German person I'll pay attention to "brown" people specifically.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385250#Comment_120385250

the torys implemented the free for all policy by defunding the immigration service.

originally they did this cause free morket and small government, but in recent years have been continuing with it to manufacture a crisis so as to whip up their new hard/far/alt right voter base.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385276#Comment_120385276

of course it was, via every election.

it will be again at the next election.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385311#Comment_120385311

So, never, in other words, was immigration as an issue in itself put to the people of Ireland at any politically actionable level.

Like everyone knows, including your good self.

Any definition yet on what mass migration is to you, in a number?

9% foreign born in 5 years is not to you, so what % in 5 years is?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385328#Comment_120385328

no, always, via every election where the people are free to raise the issue of immigration with candidates.

yoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385050#Comment_120385050

Fot the sake of your 6-month old, you should be voting for more immigration then.

You do know that there is a shortage of doctors in Ireland because richer countries such as America can offer more money to Irish doctors, so there will always be a “brain drain” to richer countries for skilled positions such as a doctors.

The only thing Ireland can do to solve this involves doing the same thing to poorer countries such as India/Pakistan/Phillipines etc., where we attract their doctors using our doctors salary. This is called immigration.

otherwise, we are free to go back to some backward time where Ireland had no immigration and no doctors, and people didn’t even go to the doctor because sure what would a doctor do for you anyway, just keep working out on the farm and suck it up if your kid dies of some easily treated disease cos you don’t use doctors

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385338#Comment_120385338

So, never, in other words, was immigration as an issue in itself put to the people of Ireland at any politically actionable level.

Like everyone knows, including your good self.

Any definition yet on what mass migration is to you, in a number?

9% foreign born in 5 years is not to you, so what % in 5 years is?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385360#Comment_120385360

does it actually bother you that 9% of the population are foreign born? why? how does it affect you personally? it's considerably lower than the UK at 16.8% and lower than Germany and Spain by a few %. In Switzerland it's 26%. 20% in Sweden.

Why do you even care? I genuinely don't get it.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385341#Comment_120385341

"Go back to a time when there was no immigration and no doctors". Hard to credit that a human wrote that.

Ah yes, the great pyramid theory in full force.

First, let's forget that Ireland existed as a fully functioning country, warts and all, healthcare included, before the great arrival of mass immigration. That way, you don't need to question "but how?!"

Next, you need to ignore that hundreds of thousands of extra people have put downward pressure on employment and wages, put upward pressure on infrastructure like housing and healthcare, and therefore "encouraging" whole rafts of healthcare student classes to get the feck out of the place, as well as put many other people in worse circumstances.

Then you need to ignore that it's essentially a swap of people who expect more for people who work for less. Great business idea in the short term. You get what you pay for, but never mind that, we're on a roll.

Then you need to ignore that the resultant cost of these infrastructural problems means less money available to pay for better standards because everything's an emergency...

..and then, with less people able to afford normal family life, ergo less ability to have children, it is only AFTER this magic point that the brain is allowed engage, and state with gusto "Well, gonna have to import even more people cos derp"!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTUDTmV94RA

All joking aside, this pyramid scheme is one of the stupidest things going these days.

No, scams don't work, and *look at the healthcare situation*, sure is getting better year after year. Isn't it? Let's have more of that, not.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385341#Comment_120385341

Oh for god sake. The issue people have here is with unskilled mass migration from god knows where as half of them have destroyed their ID. blatant chancers flying in from safe counties and being put up in hotels on our tab.

people don’t have issues with essential workers coming here as requested and to add value.

give your head a wobble. I doubt many doctors are coming over on dinghies or flushing their passports down an aeroplane toilet.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385050#Comment_120385050

Boys votes??? I'm asuming you're saying there is potential for such a party to secure significant number of votes. But as long as this remains purely hypothetical it's irrelevant. There is no sign I am aware of that anybody is taking steps to establish such a party, and it's probably already too late for one to have a serious impact at the next general election.

So until such a party overcomes the minor hurdle of not existing and starts winning serious votes in meaningful elections, the established parties will ignore this 'threat' and carry on their merry way...

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385467#Comment_120385467

that's not the issue people have here, posters are giving out about the amount of foreign born people in Ireland full stop, regardless of whether they are from the EU or here legally. People are giving out about the amount of PPN numbers issued to foreigners. Read the thread.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385469#Comment_120385469

No idea what the boys was about 😂😂 maybe some..

Aontu are offering potentially something different on immigration. But we'll have to see. I'm just tired of politics in this country to be honest.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385341#Comment_120385341

Oddly I have been to many GPs in this country but never a non EU/US one. For all the talk of non EU GPs I see little. Not saying they aren't there.

And besides skills based, visa driven immigration is a good thing. Despite the reservations I would have in my own sector about some of the visas being granted, and their 'necessity'

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385452#Comment_120385452

No, it's that 9% of the population arrived here in the space of 5 years.

Why wouldn't it bother a person that their own country is under such immense population pressure?

At the rate its going and projected to go, half the country won't be Irish in spitting time. So on the one hand there's the already farcical impacts on housing and everything else, so less of that thanks, and on the other hand it's outright ridiculous on a cultural level. Imagine the likes of China's Chinese population halving in no time, at what point does a person even be called Chinese? You're not talking about some slow and natural cultural, economic, and societal change over time, its the equivalent of just dumping masses of people in an instant and thinking its fine.

Who'd encourage or condone essentially the same fate of American Indians? Except on fast forward speed.

Besides a total lunatic.

But you know what, I'm happy enough to contend with the infrastructural problems brought on by mass immigration, that'll do for right now.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385480#Comment_120385480

I guarantee if you ask those people if they are ok with doctors being invited over to live and work - making up a shortage they would be good with that.

their issue is with the mass amount of people arriving who are mostly unskilled to compete for jobs and services - and somehow end up with favourable treatment.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385515#Comment_120385515

Vast majority of those who came here are EU/UK since Celtic Tiger. Are you against EU migration also? American Indians were slaughtered and treated like dirt, no comparison there when apart from some people ripping up passports, people have come here legally and mostly contribute to society.

Bobblehats

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385480#Comment_120385480

That’s the truth of it I wish people would stop crying ireland is full; rapes at every turn ffs they’re only giving the other side ammunition to show them up. You change the literal face of a peoples, it’s gone this is the crux of a matter at hand is where priorities lay, the one absolute everything that comes after can take a backseat

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385523#Comment_120385523

they're not competing though, it's impossible to get Irish hospitality staff, cleaners, meat factory workers, etc. how are foreign people working these jobs being treated favourably anyway?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385529#Comment_120385529

so are you another one who wants to stop EU migration too, where the vast majority of immigrants have come from?

almost all rapes are done by people known to the victim by the way, regardless of their nationality. don't buy into that nonsense.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385527#Comment_120385527

There absolutely is a comparison, a nation of one people reduced to sheer insignificance in numbers.

It's a base point but entirely applicable. For arguments sake and simplicity, at a rate of population increase of non-irish at 10% every 5 years...what's the goal or endpoint there, a population of 10% Irish people before you know it? Why would it stop at 10%? When do the reservations begin? Replace gaeltachts with "original irish" places?

As for EU migration, yes, I'm against that too as things stand. It's a number problem, not an origin problem.

No need to mention laws and regulations, they're as durable as the paper they're written on. Everything can change, and looking at the state of the place in all regards, they simply must.

And that's why I want, and many more want too, a direct say in the immigration non-policies of this tiny country. Today.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385577#Comment_120385577

I think what you need to demand from your TDs going forward is:

No more multinationals creating jobs that require a second European language, this brings in immigrants from around Europe and many of them are call centre jobs that pay 25k and the likes, low end jobs.

No new business premises unless they can guarantee all cleaners and staff will be Irish

Dublin Bus are looking to recruit South African bus drivers as they can't get enough people here to do it. The wages aren't terrible. This can't go ahead.

Farmers have to reduce all of their output unless they have enough Irish people to work in the meat processing plants, pick the fruit etc. Remember the gall of those Bulgarians coming to pick fruit during covid? Why didn't they get Irish people to do that? We need our politicians to step up.

Demand your TDs to stop growing the economy and thus the population and no more job creation UNLESS they can guarantee an Irish person is available to do it.

Demand that Irish doctors and nurses are not allowed move abroad when they qualify, as they'll need to be replaced by foreigners. Actually demand any highly skilled people in demand aren't allowed leave or we'll need to import.

And leave the EU.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385527#Comment_120385527

No man, it isn't the vast majority since the celtic tiger.

17% foreign born total, 9% IN THE LAST 5 YEARS.

Unless the celtic tiger was in 2018, you're way off.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385534#Comment_120385534

Impossible to get or are the wages suppressed ?

have you driven through the likes of balbriggan and seen who’s living in the state owned housing ? It’s certainly not the ethnically Irish. Despite there being a housing crises.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385602#Comment_120385602

who the f**k wants to work in a meat factory or the likes of it? we're a highly educated country now with 3rd level quals coming out our arses.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385588#Comment_120385588

Just about every point you raised there is "economy".

When we have an economic crisis we can deal with the economic crisis.

Meanwhile, we DO have a housing crisis, and burgeoning other crises to boot.

A bit of focus on the crises of the country would be nice instead of a focus on the things that aren't in crisis. You know. Sensible prioritised forward thinking that doesn't lead invariably to...crises.

Like being in a hospital with a gunshot and all the staff running around arguing about a scratch on my finger. That's not what I need. I'm shot. Do something about the bullet hole, I'll worry about what's not wrong later.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385611#Comment_120385611

You’ve got a fairly blinkered view of Irish society. Plenty of unskilled workers, more than third level educated anyways.