Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Absolutely...we need to pull up the draw bridges on this country ASAP.

I see that nearly 60 school building projects have been put on ice due to budgetary constraints and the cost of building (blah blah).

One of the schools is in my local area. They have been in prefabs with black mold for nearly 25 years!

The absolute irony in increasing the population so rapidly, thus needing more school places and schools but the budget is blown housing refugees and lining the pockets of the cronies. No money in the pot for services.

As I keep coming back to...it's basic common sense and basic basic basic economics.

My head is blown by the sheer incompetence of this government. They have utterly changed the fabric of this country forever.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120391833#Comment_120391833

You are literally arguing for the government to try and stop the country's population from growing. What sort of country would adopt that (utterly bonkers) strategy as a key way of managing the national budget?

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392186#Comment_120392186

There isn't very much arguing in that post at all.

I'm surprised the hyperbole checker hasn't checked this post. 🤣

The cost of building increase is mainly a materials cost increase and nothing really to do with immigrants.

But then why let facts like that get in the way when you already made the assumption that everything wrong with this country is the immigrants or fordiners fault and nothing to do with successive government decisions.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120390894#Comment_120390894

What good is cheap housing at reasonable prices when you are expected to work 60-80 hours as a salaryman, 6 days a week? You'd never actually be home to appreciate any of it.

Japan does have plenty of foreigners but they all live their in the knowledge they'll never truly integrate or become citizens. Forever a Gaijin.

I love Japan and Japanese culture but don't be fooled, it's not some haven of cultural purity where they've gotten everything right.

maninasia

I never said it was any kind of multicultural haven. You think Ireland is doing great for welcoming metric tonnes of migrants it simply can't handle?

Im not 'fooled' anything.

I said its a damn good place to live , food is amazing .housing abundant and even cheaper than Ireland now and super convenient. Not everybody needs to be a salaryman in Japan.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392186#Comment_120392186

That's not what's she suggesting though, is it? Where is she advocating that the government forcibly cease population growth?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392742#Comment_120392742

A key element of the anti-immigration proponents appears to be that the country is "full" and that a major way of addressing this would be to stop people from moving here (in order to ease pressures on housing and infrastructure etc).

But it seems a totally wrong headed approach. It is treating population growth as somehow unnatural and an aberration. According to this narrative, the reason there is a housing shortage is not because the government and others haven't built enough houses and apartments in the last 20 years, but because "there are too many people in the country".

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392772#Comment_120392772

Do you mean asylum seekers in the second category? Most of the evidence would suggest they are young and willing to work.

Arguably, the biggest drain on the nation's financial resources and those putting more pressure on infrastructure and health services are Irish people themselves - those who are economically inactive, the elderly etc. Also, we keep hearing about 'pressures' in general on housing, health services and schools and so on....this is coming from the entire 5m people living in the state, not just non nationals.

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392840#Comment_120392840

Isn't it something like 60 or 70%of Nigerians here are unemployed?

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392795#Comment_120392795

As I said before, some people's notions of immigration are from the 1800's.

No, there's nothing normal about population growth outstripping resource.

No, there's nothing natural about a growing population within a failing infrastructure.

No, a population doesn't and cannot grow infinitely within a finite world.

Have a look at a "bacterial growth curve" to see what happens with untethered growth.

This isn't the wild west of Far and Away with people hitching wagons to storm off 3000 miles thataway to claim unpopulated land centuries ago.

If the theory is escaping you, no problem, you can touch base with reality instead. 9% of the population of this tiny country has arrived in the last 5 years.

In that same timeframe, infrastructure has buckled worse and worse with each passing year. Housing, healthcare, education, social mobility and so forth.

Now, you can rejoin the 21st century and recognise the blindingly obvious connection, or you can stay put with Tom Cruise and shout yeehaw.

If you think it's sensible to populate the country with mass immigration before resources are there, well then you'll equally agree that all these people should be sent to the antarctic instead. Then you can point out to the antarctic government that the actual problem is not the people arriving, its that "tHeY jUsT haven't bUilT EnOUgH Houses!"

Also, just to say, the existence and necessity of an eviction ban beginning on April fools day is chefs kiss.

An actionable vote on immigration needs to be put to the people or ireland as soon as possible. Demand it of the politicians and cohort.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387170#Comment_120387170

Worked in a meat factory before. Plenty Irish work there. The reason they leave is either because the wages aren’t good enough to live on or they are worked like a slave by the company on 3 month rolling contracts.

Nosler

In about 12 months the Irish population has went from 0% Ukrainian to 2% Ukrainian. That really isnt sustainable.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393055#Comment_120393055

It's still around 70% foreign, many hired through agencies in Poland etc.

tinsofpeas

Regarding the above about employment, it's the ultimate conclusion of an economic mismatch.

If an Irish meat factory (or anything) employs people at adequate wages for ireland, adequate for the employees to live an agreeable standard of life in Ireland with all factors accounted such as quality accommodation, quality food, quality prospects of life improvement over time...Great!

That's a functioning economy operating within its parameters.

If an irish meat factory (or other) can only supply wages good enough to attract non-irish people from a DIFFERENT economic environment, say Brazil, and those wages are only good enough to produce a diminished quality of life, such as 6 people living in a home suitable for 2, or poorer food, or diminished prospects....do you know where that company needs to be relocated to? Yes, Brazil.

That's an example in a vacuum, as these discrepancies and misalignment of separate economic systems create far-reaching effects.

One sliced example would be the 6 Brazilians in overcrowded accommodation creating a local effect of over-demand, raising the cost of all accommodation, for everyone.

In effect, by recreating the initial conditions of a separate, other country's economy, you are essentially ALSO recreating that economy's overall environment. Its good for a few banking off it in the short term disruption, its disaster for everyone in the longer term.

Those are my thoughts on misplaced business practices. Put them where they belong.

This is part of the growing school of thought, obvious as it is, on the evidently destructive nature of globalist economy. It just doesn't work at scale.

For a tiny country like ireland, its practical hari-kari.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392795#Comment_120392795

Again, that's not what the poster implied. You've blundered in, superimposing your narrative over what was actually stated.

You've made the assumption that Ireland is full, is a key tenet of those who favor a more restrictive immigration policy. In fact, the poster stated that in her specific area, the rapid, migration-driven population increase has placed significant pressure on education and housing. I don't know how that scenario is playing out in her locale. However, nowhere did she state that Ireland is full. That's an assumption that you immediately jumped to. You know what they say about assumptions 'Strazdas'..

Where has anybody on this thread claimed that population growth is an aberration? In fact, I've explained to you on multiple occasions that the Irish population grows naturally by a mean value of ~30K per year. The Irish population grew naturally by more than 750,000 from 2000 through 2022. I have never once encountered posters suggesting that this is an undesirable outcome. This is an argument fabricated in your own head, that you've once again regurgitated as irrelevant nonsense.

What I have heard posters suggest, is that extraordinary levels of migration-driven population growth are problematic and do place a burden on services. Just last year, Ireland admitted 75K Ukrainians and 13K IPAs, a 500% YoY increase. Are you implying that an almost 2% increase in the national population in a single year is natural and entirely expected? For context, translating this metric to the US, the migration-driven population growth in that country would have been 6.7 million people. Do you think that the US government and citizens of that nation, would perceive this as business as usual? Are you legitimately trying to maintain a straight face, suggesting that a migration-driven 2% increase in the population of any nation in a given year, is something entirely unremarkable?

There is some wrong-headed nonsense propagated on this site, that's for sure..

BoxcarWilliam99

We must cull the NGO sector if we are to ever regain control of our borders.

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393230#Comment_120393230

It has made at least one good man rich beyond imagination anyway

minimary

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/oireachtas/2023/03/23/ministers-to-discuss-problem-of-new-arrivals-destroying-travel-documentation/

Talk about a glacial pace, they've known about this for ages and only now are going to discuss it

high_tower

does anyone else here still have to pinch themselves about roddy ogormless’s tweets in albanian, Georgian etc for refugees to come here and get their own houses in 4 months LOL

I still can’t get over it - and the bussing of single random blokes around the country in the dead of night.

the worst government we’ve ever had. By a long long way.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393716#Comment_120393716

"roddy ogormless’s tweets in albanian, Georgian etc for refugees to come here and get their own houses in 4 months LOL"

Leaving aside the childish name calling can you provide anything to backup this "refugees to come here and get their own houses in 4 months LOL" or did you swallow some rubbish from Twitter that misrepresented this?

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393716#Comment_120393716

These supposed representatives of Ireland (they only represent a tiny minority) have spelled out time and time again that they wanted to get as many extra people into the country as possible. And then even more.

There's the example you quote, literally advertising, ADVERTISING, across the world about free homes. It made it onto Al Jazeera news at the time ffs.

All done with a housing crisis in full swing. A conscious decision made by governments. Not a mistake, not a slip, not a whoopsie daisy.

Here's another example, their printed, published and publicly available "2040 plan" where without a single, solitary fecking explanation as to WHY, they intended to get an extra million people squeezed into the country.

Again, all done with a housing crisis simmering away. A conscious decision, again.

There's lots more besides. Amnesties for illegals, "special" visa programmes, government guarantees on foreign reit buy outs, NAMA sensations, Jesus christ there's probably less brown envelopes going through An Post.

No no, no. This is beyond a lack of representation, or a bunch of incompetents.

This is and was a plan, they told you straight out. And no amount of crises facing the Irish people was going to slow their roll. Until it came crashing down.

Like it's doing now.

We need them to do a 180 on their "plans" that have done nothing but wrecked the place thus far, or they need to go. There's no middle ground here.

An actionable democratic vote on immigration needs to be demanded. Without that as a basic starting point, every other effort is for nothing.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393766#Comment_120393766

It actually does exist - seriously, I couldn’t believe it either . I can’t be assed to find it but Google it. He did it in about 7 languages back in early 2021. It’s almost like they wanted this influx ….

high_tower

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/asylum-seekers-will-get-keys-to-their-own-homes-and-will-be-able-to-work-policy-to-end-direct-provision-revealed-40133273.html

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393805#Comment_120393805

He sent out a tweet explaining a white paper published about the vision to ending direct provision.

This does not equate with the poster I replied to saying "refugees to come here and get their own houses in 4 months LOL"

Can see why it was spun like this and promoted and where the sources come from.

https://gript.ie/photos-the-moment-when-roderic-ogorman-told-the-world-ireland-was-a-soft-touch-on-migration/

So do you think the poster was correct in stating "roddy ogormless’s tweets in albanian, Georgian etc for refugees to come here and get their own houses in 4 months" ?

supermans ghost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392186#Comment_120392186

To quote the great President Reagan “there you go again” with your Ireland should have a population of 10 million. You are literally parroting the same narrative that the self serving Nick Henderson of the Irish Refugee Council was quoted as stating how great it will be when Ireland has all these immigrants from those culturally open communities of Afghanistan, Pakistan and a slew of African countries.

Again just to clue you in, stopping a countries population growth is what they did in China, this is about curtailing the invasion of illegal immigrants into this country under the false narrative of the “asylum seeker” process.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393895#Comment_120393895

You’ve literally just backed up what I’ve said. After four months in Ireland those who’s claims are being considered are getting own door accommodation.

and he sent out his tweet to this in those languages. Why would he even need to tweet in those languages on the World Wide Web ???

also how long do you think it takes Ireland to process a claim - and how many ever actually get rejected ??

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393926#Comment_120393926

Accommodation is not housing. Can see why you got caught up with the lie.

Will reiterate what the claim was "roddy ogormless’s tweets in albanian, Georgian etc for refugees to come here and get their own houses in 4 months"

You seem to believe a set of keys are handed over in 4 months that is not what is being stated or proposed.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393895#Comment_120393895

It's much of a moot point.

He signal boosted, across the world, a policy instrument that couldn't have been more ill-conceived were it handwritten by four thousand thumbless macaques.

....translated into strangely-particular languages...

...in the middle of a housing crisis for irish people...

The message was received. And it without doubt has made the housing crisis worse.

How else could anything so blatant be interpreted?? An accident? A whole bunch of government people and cohorts slipped on a banana skin simultaneously, accidentally wrote out policy adjustments that could only ever worsen the housing situation, fell backwards onto a keyboard that inexplicably translated it all exactly into foreign languages, and then your man fell flat on his arse, his phone in the back pocket perfectly writing it all out on mass social media?

Well, there's a chance, I suppose.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393959#Comment_120393959

Did he claim to do what the original poster I replied to state? Did he promise everyone who arrives in Ireland a home of their own in a few months of arrival?

If you think they did please show something that backs up the statement. If not then why bother replying?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393903#Comment_120393903

Various analysts and demographers predict that the Republic's population is unlikely to go much over 6m at any point in the 21st century (and the figure might never be reached in fact). To put those numbers in perspective, Scotland's current population is 5.5m, Finland also 5.5m and Denmark is 5.85m.

The idea that Ireland is "full" or overpopulated seems to be gaining traction, but it's much more likely that Irish governments have simply been very slow in building new social housing and associated infrastructure in the last 20 years to cope with a growing population and economy.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393983#Comment_120393983

how do you know he’s not talking about a house ?? Anyways stop trying to bog this discussion down. Irish gov minister advertises to the world all the benefits they will get - In Albanian , Georgian languages etc. are you not Curious about that??

also if albania and Georgia are safe counties - then why would be be discussing refugee policy in their languages ??

Apart from obsessing yourself over a word, do you not find this a little odd ?

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394004#Comment_120394004

Where did he saw the policy was to offer a house to refugees after 4 months? Not bogging down any conversation at all.

Quick question why someone who has stated here as not living in Ireland got so much concern in the topic?

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394028#Comment_120394028

From Ireland buddy. Born and bred. Have also lived in other places that have had big issues with mass immigration.

now , you’ve not answered my question on why roddy would tweet all this in various languages eg Albanian and Georgian ??? Countries from where a subsequent large amount of asylum seekers have come from.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393991#Comment_120393991

The population in Ireland is not surging because of any natural reason. It is surging due to immigration. Any extra-environmental factor is unnatural. 9% of the population arrived in just 5 years.

It isn't remotely down to "natural" anything.

Do you know why the likes of the UN report on a sudden slowdown in population growth? Why does it stop at 7 million for Ireland? Why 8 billion for the world?

They say out loud it's down to reproductive choices. That has a part.

What they are not saying publicly is WHY. Why would reproductive choices change at a certain point?

The answer is, not widely known yet, is that the environment (everything from society to economy included) is projected to become inhospitable. THATS why people will "choose" to have less children.

One needn't wonder. Look at ireland right now. Difficult to capture in data yet, but how many relationships and families and possible children are directly negatively impacted by the infrastructural impact of unnecessary population increase? Plenty. And increasing.

Unlike bacteria, humans have the capacity to think ahead, how many in Ireland right now are seriously reconsidering having children given the current and projected problems of society?

Draw a line under that

If you're not convinced by that, here's something published by the UN this year, and it should rightfully get people thinking...

"Rather than focusing efforts on changing population numbers to meet the needs of economic systems, for example, countries should create economic systems that meet the needs of the population."

Now, does economy economy economy economy remind you of our country? Is it breathlessly stated time and again? The gdp this, the windfall that.

All WHILE every other facet of the country from housing to healthcare is in severe decline?

That's right. We have a government that exists solely to increase population to solely create economy, née money. At the, evident, expense of all else.

It's a pigs ear of a game. A dead end. A disaster. You can see it manifesting already.

We need an economy that works for irish people. Again, evidently so, we don't have that.

We do not need, and certainly do not want, artificial population growth to prop up an unbeneficial economy that diminishes society in the medium term. We're in the medium term, by the way.

We don't need millions of extra people in the country. And if it is allowed happen, you'd rather not be living here or your children when it does, believe it.

A vote on immigration immediately, and a complete retune of economic function after.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382986#Comment_120382986

The problem is we shouldn’t have pro unlimited immigration vs zero immigration…

we should have people talking about what needs to be done EU wide, to limit immigration when appropriate, when desired…. Get back to EVERYONE having control over their borders as relates to immigration…

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394045#Comment_120394045

Are you currently residing in Ireland?

As you call him Roddy did not tweet what you think he did and you got caught up with the spin and grifters you decided to follow on twitter. The tweet did not promise a house for anyone in 4 months.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394143#Comment_120394143

Very well put. Ironically the government’s inability to build housing may actually avert this. Countries like Germany have the infrastructure to absorb the growth - Ireland doesn’t.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394180#Comment_120394180

youre getting boring now. You’re not going to answer me are you. Probably because you also baffled as to why he published that

have you ever lived anywhere other than Ireland for a long period of time ?

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394196#Comment_120394196

Go away out of that .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394198#Comment_120394198

Don't waste your time . Honestly it's pointless

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394198#Comment_120394198

Not a word of your post made any sense to my reply. Sorry for boring you but that's on you.

The minster did not tweet promising refugees their own house after 4 months that is a false statement.

You claimed you do not live in this country so no idea why you are so passionate about the topic that does not effect you.

Where I lived in the part has no bearing on this discussion.

high_tower

Still banging on about one word are we. Still have no answer from you on your thoughts either way on those tweets.

thats not a very inclusive post :( Next you’ll be saying if you don’t live in Ireland and haven’t had family roots here dating back to the book of kells you can’t comment.

I want to know about your lived experience. Have you just lived in a bubble all your life and only know what the Irish times tells you about this topic or have you a more worldly, mature view.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394221#Comment_120394221

I asked a very simple question are you living in Ireland?

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394224#Comment_120394224

The poster said they were born and bred here and as a citizen they have every right to question what is happening in their country and how do you know this issue does not affect them? Thats some assumption.

Why are you quizzing them about where they live - what point are you trying to make?

I too would like to know what was the reason that RO'G's department tweeted and issued extracts from the white paper in Albanian, Arabic, French, Georgian, Somali and Urdu.

Maybe you could answer that as you seem to know a lot about it.

minimary

Update on the European Pact on migration

https://www.euractiv.com/section/migration/news/leak-pact-on-migration-and-asylum-reaffirm-the-dublin-system/

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382046#Comment_120382046

A no cap policy by the government and the ngo organised welcome refugee rallies.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382045#Comment_120382045

You again just mention two areas of employment Irish people do work in those jobs as I said.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393766#Comment_120393766

Own door accommodation after 4 months to someone in Albania or elsewhere could mean a house . We have seen the reality is a partition at best and unlkely to be achievable own tent accommodation more realistic.

Program refugees eg Syrians did get housed in rental accommodation with rent paid typically after 4-5 months .

https://ireland.iom.int/resources/voices-syrians-resettled-refugees-ireland-report-iom-ireland-irish-refugee-resettlement-programme

Ukranian refugees are to get 200 modular homes these are most lkely to be extended in the future.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/800-ukrainian-refugees-to-be-accommodated-in-200-modular-homes-by-easter-as-state-scrambles-to-find-housing-42304014.html

Asylum seekers given International protection have rghts to social housing and rent with a hap payment same as Irish citizens .There are multiple ngo organisations to assist them.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/asylum_seekers_and_refugees/refugee_status_and_leave_to_remain/rights_of_convention_programme_refugees_people_given_leave_to_remain.html#l6214b

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394371#Comment_120394371

I don’t know where some people live if they think that Irish people don’t do certain jobs.

We have a lovely lady who comes over to clean the house weekly. When she’s back next Monday, I must let her know how extraordinary she is, in her line of work!

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394368#Comment_120394368

So the democratically elected government in Ireland is desperate for more refugees?

The government elected by your colleagues friends and family.

JohnnyFortune

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394209#Comment_120394209

O'Gorman rolled out the red carpet. Land in Ireland and you are sorted. I've been working full rime and paying tax for the past 24 years, as a single Irishman if I lose my accommodation I might be given a room in a junkie hostel dorm if I'm lucky. I certainly won't be given my own room accommodation.

“The accommodation will be own-door for families, and provide the privacy and independence so many were not afforded over the past two decades,” Mr O’Gorman said.

“Single people will have own-room accommodation, ending the shared dormitory-styled rooms associated with the current system.”