Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Sallywag37

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120172528#Comment_120172528

It should be a source of embarrassment to you that you can't hold your own in a debate without skewing the words you're reading. It should be an indicator too that you're on the losing side of the debate. I said "twenty somethings and thirty somethings" and yes, families up and down this country and its cities in particular are dealing with this problem, and yes, it is the governments fault.

It's the government's fault because it's the governments job to govern - the clue is in the name - and part of that governance is in balancing legislation and its consequences so that the people of Ireland can live in their own ancestral homeland. Housing is among the absolute basics for human life. Our government is either unable or unwilling to provide the most basic of its functions and has proven its own incompetence every day of the week, and for decades.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166867#Comment_120166867

You mean the ones who bring skills to Australia, the US, Canada? They don't drift in demanding free accommodation food etc then hang around as groups of young men with nothing to do.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173240#Comment_120173240

Sure, politicians labelling citizens who have concerns over uncontrolled immigration as 'right wing' - is a just a lazy slur. And a means of deflecting usually from the commentators lack of competence/ performance in the area.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173506#Comment_120173506

Indeed , women ( heterosexual kind and non militant feminist- majority) tend not to find those kind of men especially appealing, kind who engage in sarcastic snide swiping and who’ll engage in any depth of brown nosing in the hopes of getting a sniff

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173448#Comment_120173448

I labelled the lad who threatened to burn women and children out of their accommodation a scumbag.

But for some reason you are throwing a tantrum over this?

😕

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169874#Comment_120169874

There are global norms and protocols. We have tools at our disposal - we don't have to accept every Tom, Dick & Harriet who turns up at the airports. Their cases can be reviewed/ triaged and sent straight back whence they came in cases that do not meet global norms and protocols. We have a primary duty to our own citizens first and particularly our 20/30 yr olds who are taking the major brunt.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173546#Comment_120173546

Nah, if one is approaching their 40s and have never left home or one are waiting over 2 decades for their forever home to be handed to them, that's a personal choice.

The vast majority go out and work and secure their own accommodation, again that is also a personal choice.

What you want is a left wing government who will promise forever homes for all, but the delivery may a problem.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173431#Comment_120173431

So you don't think it's necessarily appropriate to label someone who wants to exterminate the Jewish people as 'far right'? Fair enough....

slay55

It’s time for a change. You can thank the government for the direction I am going to support.

Sallywag37

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173558#Comment_120173558

Exactly. There's no comparison to be made between economic migrants who are honest about their status and work hard and those who deceptively game the system by lying about their status from the moment the plane touches down, beginning with ripping up their passports and then sitting on their holes for years and decades demanding handouts from the taxpaying population. This is true in Ireland or Australia or anywhere.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173845#Comment_120173845

Who is that?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173810#Comment_120173810

Taking the brunt of what exactly? The housing crisis is not caused by asylum seekers. Between 2012 and 2018, we were taking in around 6000 refugees per year - in no way could that have led to housing or accommodation shortages in Ireland in 2023.

As for the actual asylum system, there's no reason why it shouldn't be speeded up considerably. Perhaps aim to have every asylum claim assessed and concluded within six months. The focus on turning people away at the airport is a total distraction - if the asylum claims were assessed very quickly, the airport situation would hardly even matter (ditto the thing with people not having passports).

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173886#Comment_120173886

Left, centre, right, far whatever, the speeding up and actioning of decisions on economic migrants must be where the focus is.

On that I assume most agree.

niallpatrick

Zero refugee policy, nope. Pro legit refugee policy yes prioritising those who need the refuge first and foremost and using Dublin 2 agreement to return the fakes back to their last safe country they were settled in.

I am bitter, 6 counties it's the nationalist areas which takes in the majority of refugees and asylum claimants/economic migrants. Nationalities we should be welcoming are sidelined. Brazilians Central and South Americans these are the people we should be making room for along with legitimate Ukrainians and Palestinians not more undocumented economic migrants. Suitable living Space and money is finite and my take on it is 'oh theres another country gone tits up' outer Mongolia for a far fetched example. 30 Mongolians re-settled and 3000 Angolans come in at the same time.

Nosler

In the UK the Manchester bomber was an asylum seeker from Libya. His mum also came over. His brother also came to the UK.

Twenty kids dead at a music concert. The bombers mum then went back to Libya (obviously she still receives benefits from the UK taxpayer). I believe his brother knew about the bombing and bought materials for it. He's still in the UK.

Islamic State made clear their plan was to get terrorists into Europe.

This idea that asylum seekers want to live in peace and integrate into the West is childish...

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173823#Comment_120173823

I think you need to go beyond "far right" when describing such people: "murderous neo-Nazi scum" would be fine by me.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173322#Comment_120173322

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174067#Comment_120174067

That was a break neck U-Turn. Spectacular.

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174128#Comment_120174128

Like it or lump it. The Taliban wouldnt be in control of Afghanistan unless they had widespread popular support....

But yeah, asylum seekers from Afghanistan are definitely on board with living in a secular democracy..they definitely approve of irish drinking and women going out without chaperones..

TomTomTim

EDIT

Wrong thread

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174200#Comment_120174200

So you take major issue with racists being tarred with the one brush, but cohorts of people you don't like, that's fine.

😕

Hungry Burger

At this current stage of the races, the only people still advocating for our open door approach are dangerous ideologues. They live in a Disney land version of the world which is in complete conflict with reality.

We need to look after ourselves and our own because no one else will.

Sallywag37

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174708#Comment_120174708

They do indeed live in a Disney land version of the world which is in complete conflict with reality, reality as it exists at least for the majority. We might also replace 'Disney land' with Dalkey, Killiney, Foxrock, Ballsbridge, Rathgar, Howth etc. It's not a coincidence that the people advocating mass immigration are shielded from its impacts on the one hand and enjoy its cheap labour benefits on the other.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173116#Comment_120173116

“If you don’t support the far left agenda, no woman will sleep with you!”

Yawn.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174708#Comment_120174708

We don't have an open door policy. Our immigration procedures are actually pretty strict compared to many countries in Europe - it's not an easy country to get into. The anti-immigration guys announcing we have 'open doors' and 'open borders' is mostly hot air : per capita, our intake of refugees and asylum seekers is nothing out of the ordinary. It's definitely no easier to claim asylum in Ireland than in any other EU state.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174796#Comment_120174796

Well this is complete BS.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174796#Comment_120174796

Absolute nonsense. For the size of our population, we have taken in a far bigger percentage than other countries.

The reality is, every chancer from anywhere is turning up here and no one gets deported. Our own government admits as much, how can you “seek refuge” from a “place of safety” ?

You’ve been listening to far too much Newstalk.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173074#Comment_120173074

"Endless, uncontrolled immigration"

• There is not 'endless uncontrolled immigration'. There is freedom of movement within the EU single , all other immigration requires work permits which have strict conditions associated with them. We take in asylum seekers who are processed and assessed to see if they are genuine refugees or if they should be processed in Ireland, or in another EU country, If their application is approved, they are allowed to stay, otherwise, they are deported.

Gender quotas

• There are no gender quotas in Ireland apart from a requirement for political parties to select at least 30% women candidates in general elections (and at least 30% male candidates). And these were not hard quotas, failure to meet these quotas would result in a decrease in state funding for that party in the next general election, so the Mens Rights party could still run all men in any general election if they wanted to.

Trans rights

• Do you think people who are trans should have no rights?

Abortion

• The government held a referendum on the issue because it was demanded by the public following the death of Savita Halappanavar. The government did not come out either in favour of, or against making abortion legal in Ireland. Fine Gael were split by the issue, and so the party allowed it's members to take any position on it and didn't apply the whip one way or the other.

Funding of the very left wing NGO industry

• All countries have NGO sectors. Ireland's NGOs are no more left or right wing than any other countries. Many of our charities are owned and run by the Roman Catholic Church and so are hugely socially conservative (which seems to be what you consider to be right wing in contrast with socially liberal being 'left wing')

The expansion of the state

The state is not expanding under FF/FG. The ratio of public spending to GDP has been falling

2020/2021 was a spike due to Covid

Welfare state

All modern countries have a welfare state of some form. Ireland's welfare state is smaller than most countries in Europe and even smaller than the US welfare state

Weak on crime

And yet Ireland are the 3rd most peaceful country in the world

Hate speech laws

Do you think it is ok to incite violence or hatred against people? Freedom of speech has limits. The demonisation of minorities and dehumanisation of political opponents is what allowed the Nazis to commit their atrocities which led to the holocaust.

Internationalism

Internationalism... You're opposed to countries cooperating with each other. You'd prefer if we were nationalist and isolationist?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173431#Comment_120173431

No in just the same way the Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korea isn't democratic

National Socialism (Nazism) was a totalitarian fascist regime.

The fact that you made this ridiculous post means your other post about people not understanding the proper meaning of fascism might be a case of the pot calling the kettle black

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173450#Comment_120173450

If I was asked that question I would have said I'm not happy with the government handling of Ukranian refugees too. I don't think the government should have had them sleeping in tents in the depths of winter and should have done much more to put them in suitable accommodation where they would have been warm and dry

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173676#Comment_120173676

There is no uncontrolled migration

Jinglejangle69

…oops

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174796#Comment_120174796

Yet more inaccuracies from you. The Sunday Times reported today that, on a per capita basis, we are taking in around 6 times that of UK or France. So we're taking 6 times as many as we "should".

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173846#Comment_120173846

You seem to have absolutely no idea how the Asylum process works in Ireland

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173952#Comment_120173952

Of course. It is not in the interest of asylum seekers to be left in direct provision for extended periods.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174832#Comment_120174832

In fairness Pat Kenny has been very vocal lately about scammers destroying their documents before immigration control.

Which is very strange.

Probably the only one questioning it along with Niall Boylan.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174974#Comment_120174974

Well enlighten us so?

Because that’s exactly what is happening right now.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174067#Comment_120174067

This is the racism people constantly claim isn't there

One terrorist attack almost 6 years ago, and you can tar thousands of asylum seekers as being members of jihadi terrorist groups.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174823#Comment_120174823

Ireland rejects way more refugee applications than we allow to stay

Those figures will be different since the Ukraine war, but, hear me out on this, there's a freaking war in Europe where a psychopath is levelling cities, and murdering innocent women and children.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174967#Comment_120174967

This is only because of the Ukrainian war. Ireland have taken in a huge number of Ukrainian refugees.

I think this is a good thing TBH. We're not going to help them defeat the Russians with any military aid, we should help by providing a safe place to live until the war is over or longer should they choose to stay)

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175018#Comment_120175018

It must average about one terrorist attack a week in europe? Hamburg train attack last week. Two teenagers dead. Attack last week in Spanish church. One dead one seriously injured.

We allow asylum seekers in from places like Afghanistan because quite frankly Afghanistan is a violent hell hole. But you're argument changes with the wind... its basically that Afghanistan isnt a safe place to live because Afghans kill each other. So we need to let Afghans come to ireland. But when Afghans come to Ireland they suddenly change into these peace loving people that wouldn't hurt a fly...

You must admit your argument lacks consistency...

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175233#Comment_120175233

Ah the old "my mate told me". We had this in the Enoch Burke thread too. "My mate told me the family are well respected".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173145#Comment_120173145

I thought he nailed it

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174967#Comment_120174967

Are you referring to Ukrainian refugees perhaps? That's a completely abnormal situation and something that hasn't been seen in Europe in 80 years (also, Ukrainian people are not 'asylum seekers' per se and are being treated legally as if they are from the EU).

But there's no evidence at all that we are operating a different asylum system to France, Germany, Belgium, Spain, NL, Austria, Sweden etc or that it is easier for a non-Ukrainian refugee to enter Ireland than any other EU state in western Europe.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175155#Comment_120175155

The argument is that the people who are fleeing the Taliban in Afghanistan are less likely to be in the Taliban's good books than the people who choose to stay.

The UK played a very big role in causing the mess that is currently in Afghanistan, they, along with the US, funded the Taliban to fight the Russians in the 80s. So, I think the UK has an obligation to help refugees fleeing the Taliban today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_in_the_Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War

Ireland don't have that culpability but we're in a free travel area with the UK, so it makes no difference from a security POV if the refugees are going to the UK or Ireland, they can travel freely between both jurisdictions.

Sallywag37

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174974#Comment_120174974

You seem to have some idea how it works in theory and absolutely no idea how it works in practice. Most asylum claims are rejected because most asylum claimants are economic migrants; there begins the endless rounds of appeal after appeal after appeal, resulting either in deportation orders which rarely culminate in a actual deportations, or compassionate leave to remain often hinging on innocent children who've been forced to spend much of their childhoods in Direct Provision Centres. The entire system is shambolic and wide open to abuse. In fact it's been abused so thoroughly we're now ill equipped to offer support to those for whom the system was actually designed.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175323#Comment_120175323

That's not how refugee status works.

When someone is granted asylum, it's not 'until the war is over'. They need to be able to begin a new life. the war could take years to end, and when it's over, their homes could be destroyed. You'd send them back to a levelled city to be homeless? with no schools, hospitals, employment....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxTaovobGv4

edit - Actually there are two types of asylum applications. Since the Ukraine invasion, we have introduced Temporary international protection applications. Which is valid for 1 year but can be extended

The vast majority of Ukrainian refugees are under the Temporary applications

but I would expect that if their homes are destroyed, many applications will be transferred to permanent refugee status

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175274#Comment_120175274

Yes, numbers pertain to Ukrainians, but this "experiment" only highlights the problem with our system. Why have so many flooded in here, given we have no historical links with Ukraine whatsoever and are thousands of miles away?? The fact that we are taking 6 times as many as the UK or France on a per capita basis merely shows what a soft touch we are. Its hardly coincidental that 2022 was also associated with a surge of non-Ukrainians (esp from nearby Georgia), once the word got out.

L.Ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058281647/time-for-a-zero-refugee-policy

"I'm not racist, I just want the white refugees from the white people war and not the brown refugees from the brown people wars."

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175353#Comment_120175353

A lot of people flee Afghanistan because it is poor... not because they dislike the Taliban...

America and Britain spent twenty years in Afghanistan trying to build a functioning country. Thousands of troops were killed and trillions of dollars spent. The Yanks and Brits pull out and a few days later the Taliban is back in control. Does that not tell you something about how Afghans will fit into Ireland?

Same with places like Syria etc.... people dont flee syria because they love the West. They flee because they were Islamic State supporters that lost the war with Basar al Assad...

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175489#Comment_120175489

If people love the Taliban most likely they would stay and enjoy life there rather than coming to somewhere they "hate". People who leave are not usually Taliban supporters obviously. Common sense logic like this is why you get very few replies to your posts by the way as there is little point.

There is also a civil war going on in Syria involving other countries also which has nothing to do with Isis. Little point in engaging with you on that as it seems you have no knowledge of whats going on there.