Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Juran

The likes of Germany and France build high rise apartment blocks very quickly when pressure on housing occurs. They build them out in the not so pretty small cities, often you will never see these as a tourist. I lived in both these countries and drove a lot for work , I would see them fire up these tower blocks in a matter of months. Ireland cannot do the same due to planning regs, environmental objections, incompetent local authorities and totally useless housing department / government. And I'm not saying I'd like to see tower blocks dotted all over Ireland, but some 5 to 8 story complexes can be well designed and fit in to the surrounding urban area.

Every large town (not even a city status) in Germany & France have a small hospital, day clinics, swimming pool, fire station, city hall, police statiin, etc. There were even technical colleges and Universities in very small cities. Huge hopsitals in every small city. The list of facilities and infrastructure goes on.

By living and travelling in Germany & France (and the US), You can totally appreciate how small Ireland is in terms of space, infrastructure, facilities, housing, etc. I can list the major hosptials and Universities in Ireland in 20 seconds, you could count the no of fire stations in Connuaght on one hand, the number of Garda stations in Ireland equate to a tiny district in Germany.

This is why Ireland cannot grow like our large EU neighbors can, its why Ireland has to control immigration.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394496#Comment_120394496

Well it sure would appear that way but people power may sway them.Sinn Fein might put a restriction on refugees and asylum seekers as an election stunt .

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394900#Comment_120394900

high rise social housing apartment blocks, as in 10 and 12 stories which would be considered high rise in Ireland, are all over central areas of Paris and London anyway very visible to tourists if you get around a bit. Off the top of my head I can think of such towers in Notting Hill, St John's Wood, Shoreditch, Waterloo, Bermondsey, and around Oberkampff and Parc Buttes-Chaumont in Paris, I'm not that familiar with Paris though.

it just doesn't seem to be possible to do this in Ireland with our planning regulations and constant objections. I was impressed to see a load of apartments being built here in central Dublin last time I was home, and also similar developments around that new Pelletstown train station. Even if we can't do high rise, block after block of this kind of thing, with room for amenities and shops etc. that are helped by the government to stay in business, should be the direction we're going in, in my opinion.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395150#Comment_120395150

was their ethos not always refugees welcome open borders type of thing? then again they'd probably say anything to win votes

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394900#Comment_120394900

Name a single country in the western world that has ever used immigration laws to try and stop the population from growing? If the Irish government truly believed this was the way to go, they would go the route of the Brexiteers and withdraw from the EU and the Single Market (and in the same stroke, would kibosh the chances of Irish people being able to move to anywhere in Europe).

JohnnyFortune

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120396592#Comment_120396592

USA, Australia, New Zealand. Ireland and every other EU country too. Russia. South American countries. Pretty much every country in the world uses them.

They all use immigration laws to stop their populations from exploding overnight.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120396592#Comment_120396592

Every country that requires a visa to enter, stay or work

Nosler

These days places like airports have cameras with facial recognition...

The airport literally knows who people are as soon as they get to the airport. It would be easy enough to find out who the people that lost their passports are... see which flight they came off and get the names of the people who went through passport control, then compare the list of names with the airline passenger manifesto...

A schoolkid could come up with a system to determine who the people are that have lost their passports.

How many people lost their passports at Dublin Airport last year? 4,200 or something? How much will they be costing the Irish taxpayer each? At least 20,000 euro a year each? That's 84 million euro to look after them each year.

MrMusician18

Seems to some sort of stand-off occuring in Mullingar tonight

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/03/24/protesters-blocking-bus-of-asylum-seekers-from-entering-columb-barracks/

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120396816#Comment_120396816

Ireland has strict immigration rules for anyone who wishes to work here - many of the deportation orders in recent years have been issued not against asylum seekers, but against people with the wrong work visa or no visa at all or students overstaying their allocated time etc.

lmimmfn

Mullingar saying no - https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/03/24/protesters-blocking-bus-of-asylum-seekers-from-entering-columb-barracks/?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign=CCwqGQgwKhAIACoHCAowqfqFCzD7v4MDMJGprgEw4bvCAQ&utm_content=bullets

creeper1

There is a video of IPAs being bussed into Mullingar. The bus driver is both giving and receiving abuse. How do we see this? Targeting someone just doing their job or maybe we take the view that he should have refused?

https://youtu.be/C-uW4pON_e8

I'm personally of the view that it's the politicians that need to be receiving the abuse.

Another thing is this ridiculous idea we are to get a referendum on immigration. IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.

The general election will be the referendum. A vote for the main parties will be essentially be a green light to mass immigration.

Deiselurker

It's ridiculous to be abusing the bus driver for doing his job. If people have an issue with refugees they should get on to politicians instead of abusing a man out earning a living.

Kermit.de.frog

When did the whole "International Protection Applicant" lark start?

You mean refugees?

Billy Mays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120398694#Comment_120398694

These folk aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the box tbf

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120398696#Comment_120398696

Just another buzzword to fool us plebs.

high_tower

the press often refers to ukranians as refugees. And men from everywhere else as IPAs. Basically illegals.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120398720#Comment_120398720

They’re sharp enough to know if they let those buses in they’re stuck with those guys for years hanging around the place.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120398804#Comment_120398804

€€€€€€

Nosler

Tbh, I consider the political class as being traitors.

When you think about it, the main duty of a politician is to look after the electorate. They've not been doing that... there's a housing crisis in Ireland and the politicians do nothing about deporting failed asylum seekers?

If someone speaks out against bogus asylum seekers the politicians shut them up with cries of "racist" and "right wing extremist".

Democracy shouldn't be like this.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399049#Comment_120399049

Their main duty of care seems to be to the corporates and EU.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120398694#Comment_120398694

This will devalue property in the area. The “I’m just doing my job” means sfa when it’s your property becoming un-sellable and your family exposed the dangers being imported. The political class have much to answer for when they are sneaking these buses into areas. If something happens as a result of this then it’s on their hands.

The people sneaking this into areas are traitorous snakes and calling people racists means nothing coming from them.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120398641#Comment_120398641

 A vote for the main parties will be essentially be a green light to mass immigration.

Any suggestions on who the vote should go to instead?

creeper1

Sure. The Irish Freedom party. INP is too extreme. I mean their leader directly quoting the fuhrer goes too far.

Irish Freedom party is too in the sense that exiting the European Union as a member of the Euro currency is going to be very painful.

However there's not much of an alternative. It's the right choice.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399892#Comment_120399892

179,289 new PPS Numbers have been issued to Non-Irish nationals in Ireland from January-September 2022 https://gov.ie/en/collection/

How many total new houses built. Approx 40k maybe?

This is detrimental to the native population

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399915#Comment_120399915

Do you believe IFP have the potential to attract mainstream support?

creeper1

Yes I do. There's an awful lot of very dissatisfied people out there and they definitely can make gains.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400018#Comment_120400018

Not for a few years. Though they’re ripe for growth.

im Surprised the shinners haven’t taken this up. I dont like them but they normally read the room and have a feral intuition to back the right horse. If they backed immigration controls they’d get in.

Reading this article makes me very sad and also very angry. This impacts myself, my friends and family who have been priced out of their home towns. When many houses in my local regional town can now go for half a million €, you know something is seriously wrong.

I love and embrace multicultural Ireland but this government made an absolute balls of managing our population growth. It is spiralling out of control unmanaged at our borders. Hell we don't even have a flipping border at this stage.

I only look at the demographics of my local regional town and towns and how much they have changed so rapidly in the last 3-5 years alone. I often wonder where they live and work!

I worry so much about my children's future. Where will they afford to live.They are already in stupidly overcrowded classes and more and more so by the weeks and months. They are getting less and less attention at school. It's all a vicious circle.

Anyone who supports this stupid surge in population growth needs their heads examined.

Oh and another point...In the last week, my local regional hospital experienced their busiest day ever. It says it all!

Behind a pay wall but you get the gist.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/middle-and-low-earners-will-be-priced-out-of-living-in-regional-towns-by-2028-42393799.html

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400544#Comment_120400544

Was never on the cards. SF have had a consistently pro-immigrant/refugee position for at least two decades now.

https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/11440

https://gript.ie/sinn-fein-calls-for-no-limit-on-numbers-of-ukrainian-refugees/

https://gript.ie/flashback-sf-would-not-put-an-upper-limit-on-refugees/

Coming out for serious restrictions on immigration now would be a 180 degree u-turn on their previous position and place them well to the right of FF & FG in conventional political terms.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400875#Comment_120400875

I don’t think they stand for anything to be honest. They’ll say anything to win votes. And for the last decade acting woke has worked very well. Can see them dropping that if they see the tide turn.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120398696#Comment_120398696

Not everyone claiming asylum would come under the category of 'refugee'. Women fleeing sex trafficking, political prisoners or dissenters, those at risk in their home country because of their sexual orientation etc....it's quite a grey area.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401232#Comment_120401232

Seems to be mostly blokes between the ages of 18-30 from Algeria and Georgia who’ve flown in from Europe or got the air coach from Belfast.

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400875#Comment_120400875

While I'd agree with your sentiments re SF, I've always had this crazy-assed idea that you were a very staunch FG supporter from Mayo (a very staunch FG county) - You're never just using this thread to beat up on SF to try to take them out of the running so there will be just the 3 pro immigration parties (FG/FF/G) left to vote for are you?

It's a very, very clever tactic.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401232#Comment_120401232

That's not really the point. When it became obvious the public was getting concerned about the state's lack of control on arrivals to this country there was a deliberate effort to introduce language by the NGOs in relation to refugees that wasn't used previously.

Like when the UK government renamed Windscale to Sellafield because it would be deemed less of a radioactive menace in the minds of the public.

It's a cynical use of language. Now all these people need 'protection' in the eyes of the public and they keep using that word over and over again.

No one argues some need 'protection' but that is an incredibly small number among what is mostly economic migrants and the public know this.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401311#Comment_120401311

Wow I'm thrilled to learn I, the proverbial guy on the Internet, have the capacity to "take SF (the runaway leaders in the opinion polls) out of the running".

TBH I don't have any strong political convictions, just like to correct posters who entertain pipe dreams like SF lurching to the right on immigration...

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401402#Comment_120401402

But a considerable number of people who claim asylum are 'not' refugees and are not fleeing war or famine or a natural disaster. As I mentioned further up, women who have escaped sex trafficking, gay people leaving countries where homosexuality is strictly forbidden, people at risk of being jailed for their religious or political beliefs, those escaping from authoritarian regimes etc are all entitled to claim asylum but could not be categorised as "refugees". You could argue that International Protection Applicant actually suits such people much better.

creeper1

If house prices are going to continue climbing even in rural Ireland to 300k or 400k or beyond then the young will continue to emigrate as they are doing now.

Effectively you have a swap going on. Ireland exchanges it's own youth for the youth of Somalia, Albania, Eritrea etc. What a great deal that is!

All the while the middle class is decimated to pay for it all.

Don't get me started on SF! Interesting and perversely their supporters are the least in favour of mass immigration but you would never know that from the leadership.

There needs to be a political earthquake and fast. The window of opportunity before irreversible damage is inflicted is closing.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400892#Comment_120400892

Don't they stand for unification, an end to british rule on the island and ML running the show?

Can't recall seeing any details of how a 32 county state would make up the shortfall of the billions in funding pumped into NI by the uk government, read it was about 15bn last year.

Maybe it will come from that magic money tree they must have somewhere.

creeper1

I have not read their manifesto but I would suspect they would claim taxing multinationals and those nasty landlords would make up the shortfall.

Of course neither of those groups necessary have to stay in Ireland to put up with that.

Nosler

I think people should vote National Party.... I don't think they have the policies to run a government, however as a protest vote they are brilliant.

Have a look at their youtube video of when they visited Brussels... I know people consider them "knuckle draggers" etc. However they seem fairly intelligent and articulate to me. Or I suppose people could continue to vote FFFG and nothing will change regarding immigration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVidCjR7plQ

"When you outlaw Nationalism, you outlaw Peoples." - A Visit to Brussels: Portents of the Future

high_tower

has the gov invested anything in asylum and deportation processes this year ? Or is it just sticking it’s head in the sand ?

ShamNNspace

A sign placed in Cherbourg train station France

McDermotX

For the English-speaking Ukrainians presumably?

Bit weird

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120402225#Comment_120402225

Aren't they all really well educated?

English would make sense as its the most widely spoken language. And those coming from Ukraine might not speak Ukranian

creeper1

How helpful of the French!

Noted there's no advice on getting to Spain/Belgium/the UK/Holland/Portugal/ anywhere else.

Soft touch this way ⬆️

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401555#Comment_120401555

It’s not that difficult. If your claim for protection is granted, then you are a refugee. Anyone still in the process is an asylum seeker (I.e someone seeking asylum - clue is in the title) or alternatively someone applying for International Protection, which also covers Subsidiary Protection, which is an EU concept, for someone who doesn’t reach the threshold of a refugee under the Geneva Convention but would still be found to have a legitimate fear of returning to their own country. The term IPA would cover both, and comes from the International Protection Act 2015, which introduced a single procedure for people applying for both forms of protection. Point is, the term Refugee only applies to someone whose claim has been accepted, and shouldn’t be confused with those who haven’t had a decision yet.

Oh, and by the way, fleeing persecution on the grounds of being homosexual, or political or religious beliefs would be text book examples of those who would be entitled to refugee status, once their claim is accepted as being credible.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120402144#Comment_120402144

Keep em coming, I see Ukrainian has been added as a subject for the leaving cert next year. It's looking fairly permanent now, who could'a guessed.

Is there any word of looking at the benefits we pay to see if we are too attractive with our dole at all? I haven't heard anything.

McDermotX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120402314#Comment_120402314

Well....if you'd want to reach the vast majority of interested readers from Ukraine, you'd be far better advised to publish in Ukrainian, Russian or any number of slavic based languages. Perhaps even French if you wanted to keep the local populace in the loop. English would be well down that list.

Of course there could be other languages posted on other sheets, but suffice to say, this is the picture we have to work with.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120402355#Comment_120402355

I totally agree that anyone who 'seeks refuge' and subsequently granted it is therefore by definition a 'refugee'. Personally, I think 'asylum seeker' is a better term for anyone who initially arrives into a country and puts in an application for asylum.