Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410376#Comment_120410376

so why are you talking about kids that were born and bred here getting into fights?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409366#Comment_120409366

I'm sure it's just a coincidence, but exacerbating the housing crisis and importing homeless people will probably help with this "Right To Housing" referendum the government want to propose.

Sounds nice on the surface, but there's very few houses actually available and construction is nowhere near able to keep up with demand. Seems the main point of this bill is to delimit the right to private property (transferred to the state or "common good").

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0328/1366729-amnesty-report/

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409752#Comment_120409752

Fairly broad statement there.

Problem people in every nationality

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410376#Comment_120410376

The guy recording had an African accent. The guy doing the stabbing was second generation.

tinsofpeas

The notions floating around in favour of immigration are hard to credit. A persistent ignorance.

Transcribe it to a hospital setting.

You roll into accident an emergency with a gunshot in the left leg. Doctor shoots you in the right leg too "you already have a problem what's the big deal?". That's the idiocy of the "but Irish people break the law too".

There's is a constant lack of critical thought around capacity. "There's plenty of space because Ireland centuries ago had a bigger population". Yes in abject poverty, because it didn't have capacity. If your rule of thumb on societal infrastructure is based off a wildly inapplicable notion hundreds of years ago, then you need to go back to primary school.

"If we built more homes, we could house the overpopulated country". Well Jesus, there's critical thought for you. "I don't have enough money, but If I had more money I'd have more money, therefore I can continue spending money I don't have". Brilliant reasoning, brilliant. Nobel prizes in the post.

"But the Irish won't do these jobs". Yes, because the pay does not match its environment and affords only a decreased quality of life. Can only add more migrants to do those jobs because they're willing to put up with worse quality of life, which in turn decreases quality of life of the environment, which means only those ready to accept lower quality will do the Jobs, which means....you get the point. It's an ever circling drain on everyone. An "economy" for hollow heads.

"But the hospital staff", yes the poorer replacements willing to work for less with worse conditions while the Irish students are leaving because of the broken economy that cycle brings. Immigration clearly and evidently does not improve the healthcare system. Look at it. You get what you pay for, and we are paying for it.

Not restricted to manual labour, there is also the absurd notion of bigger companies setting up here to avoid tax, while bringing sometimes the majority of their workforce from abroad. Pointless. If all the supposed money these tax dodgers bring to the country was of benefit, we wouldn't have the place in such a state. But what it does do, evidently, is introduce more and more extra people to add yet more infrastructural pressure into a breaking society. The proof is in the pudding.

"We need this imported population to pay for pensions". And yet, the more that arrive, the worse the pension situation becomes. Funny, that.

Lots more fallacies aside.

It is clear as day that we have a buddy system of governments that have only one intent: artificially inflate the population to sustain a practically useless economy.

Everything else is being burned to keep this economic fallacy alive. Culture and identity, housing, education, healthcare, social mobility, family creation, sustainability, the environment. The future, basically.

We have been sold a pigs ear. Not a single effing element of it adds up to anything positive. We need an economy that suits the Irish people, and not other people to sustain an economy of no use to anyone.

Just 9% of the population of this country has been imported withing just 5 years. Does it feel like it makes anything better?

An actionable vote on mass immigration must be demanded because it is an existential threat now.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410359#Comment_120410359

Agreed. But they’re not helping. And if the rest of Europe is anything to go by they’ll be catching up unless properly integrated.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120403082#Comment_120403082

Yeah lets execute doctors

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410423#Comment_120410423

Agree we should not import cultures that support public torturer and punishments

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410465#Comment_120410465

Its the National Party supporting doctors to be execeuted not foreigners

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410423#Comment_120410423

I said a lot the of The National Parties policies were pathetic....

However I'd still vote for them because they are one of the few voices speaking out against mass immigration.

Imho mass immigration, from incompatible cultures, is the biggest threat facing Ireland.... we all can all look at Sweden/ France/ UK to see that mass immigration doesnt result in some utopia.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410423#Comment_120410423

Lots of immigrant health care workers here and nobody is saying to exclude them as far as I have seen?

The gangs of men arriving from everywhere claiming asylum aren't doctors. But you know that. 8 million people before the famine next?

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410764#Comment_120410764

Think he's referring to

Vote for the party whose leader wants to imprison women who have abortions and execute doctors who carry out abortions 👍🏻

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410863#Comment_120410863

I actually read execute as exclude! My bad for reading while doing something else

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410764#Comment_120410764

On that point of the '8 million people before the famine' statistic, it's worth noting that that figure was the whole island of Ireland.

People then take that and erroneously compare it to the current population of just the republic of Ireland. As if to state how much of a massive difference there is between the two.

In reality, if you compare like for like, the population of the whole island of Ireland now stands at just over 7 million.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410264#Comment_120410264

Yeah I think we all no the answer to that one, I’m guessing the latter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410384#Comment_120410384

100%

I can see it all now come election time, FFG saying we made a mistake or blaming international agreements. But if you vote us in again we swear we will fix it properly this time. We just need another 5 year’s.

I think the country is in such a mess that nobody will want to run for government because it’s going to be impossible to fix.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411439#Comment_120411439

It's in a proper state, and it's hardly insider knowledge that it's projected to get worse.

BUT THE ECONOMY!

Yes, the economic furnace that's burning society to sustain itself, of no practical benefit, and 100% reliant on importing extra people, is doing fine. It'll go pop on a Tuesday while we're out at lunch, such is its resilience.

One of the more pertinent questions of this country's unasked for, foisted imported population, is housing.

Keeping it simple, there were about 90k NET migrants into the country last year, with a wobbly projection of about the same this year. Let's stop there.

180k net migrants, into a country that can maybe build 60k homes, with an existing housing crisis, in two years.

Is anyone able to wake up out of their stupor and ask where this is headed?

Are people content to watch the government's build appx 1/3 of the housing necessary for migrants, while the people of Ireland themselves wait? And wait until ...when, exactly?

Are we waiting for the likes of favela's and homeless "towns"? And if you are happy to wait for that, what are you going to do then?

What's the plan?

Who is this economy for? How does it help?

Hello?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411757#Comment_120411757

Nobody is factoring in also that these people will soon start having children at some stage & telling their friends & family at home what the craic is here & how to work the system.

creeper1

Prediction - One of the main steam parties is going to make start making some insincere sound bites/ lip service about controlling immigration.

Don't fall for it. They don't deserve a second chance at this stage. Punish them with a vote for Irish freedom party or alternatively Irish national party.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411922#Comment_120411922

People with their heads firmly unrooted from their hole are thinking ahead.

I've been extremely generous in my question above, picking just two years and pretending the housing crisis was a spontaneous creation out of the thin air.

180k extra people in two years, with an extrapolated track record of being able to build ~60k homes in two years. In a ballooning housing crisis.

And, even though it means nothing in terms of housing practically, if you take out the Ukrainian refugees it's STILL insufficient to meet the over-demand of immigration.

Everyone knows it. Everyone. But there's a fear, instilled over years, of speaking up. Give people a silent choice at a vote box and the answer will be resounding. And that's precisely why the government's are avoiding the issue like the plague. 1+1=2

If you were practically minded, you would realise that all the building resource of this country would be more economically spent in building homes in different countries for other peoples benefit. At least the other strains of mass immigration wouldn't bear out. That would be honesty. Tell people in ireland that their taxes are being collected to provide for different countrys instead of their own.

And a touch of honesty would go a long way in this stiflingly stupid country's "priorities".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120412019#Comment_120412019

100%

There’s just simply too many people here at the moment to manage it all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411946#Comment_120411946

Correct.

I don't trust our electoral system, anyway.

The fact the ballot boxes are moved from counting centres to Gardai stations overnight (and then back again in the morning) is laughable. The Gardai work for the government. So, you're essentially trusting the government with ballot boxes that could oust them from power.

It is not a fully transparent system, but rather a system based on trust. Those boxes should never leave the counting centre. Counting should continue in overnight shifts until completed. In any country. In any democracy.

Not to derail the thread, but I never see anyone question this. Baffling.

Juran

In famine time, there were multiple families living in one house, grandparents, aunts, uncles, parents, 10 kids and more kid cousins. For those 8 million people, less than 1 million homes would suffice. The country was piss poor, no jobs, there was no welfare, no healthcare, no free education, etc. I dont think we can compare 8 million in 1800 era to modern Ireland.

Ireland has a housing crisis, and the saddest part is the government (or other political parties) have zero plans or strategy to address it. They are just shuffling the deck with their evication ban rule change, landlord tax incentives, asking local councils to buy 1,500 private houses (the very few that are left on the market AND they will pay WAY more than it would cost to build a basic 2 bed apartment or home), still no plans to build a single home and add to the housing stock in 2023, 2024, 2025.

We read a report published today that 60,000 homes COULD be built on council lands across the country over 3 years ... It will never happen. We've heard and read it for years.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411946#Comment_120411946

Leo said before an election that he was going to look after the people who get up early n go to work in the morning and pay for everything.

I think he was misspoken at the time n meant to say stealth tax instead of look after, as that's what happened after the election!

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409366#Comment_120409366

People are afraid to say anything or protest because they'll be labelled far right racists or else they'll get a lecture about the Irish who went to other countries in the last two centuries. They'll also get a sermon about EU and international responsibilities and obligations. Ive read it here on boards from several posters who continuously try to browbeat and intimidate anyone who even tries to question what's going on. The people who protested around the country a few weeks ago were called all kinds of disgusting names by some posters.

It's really annoying when the concerns of our own citizens are continuously dismissed especially when it is our taxes that pays for all the largesse. There's many who are delighted to champion the cause of new arrivals and yet they bully our own into keeping quiet and accepting the deterioration in services and the extra strain on the public purse. If we have so much money available now to put into building places for asylum seekers and refugees, why not fix our health service, disability supports, senior citizens home help, special needs, childcare, school buildings, ambulances, gardai and courts, housing and all the other issues that we were told couldn't be fixed because there was no funds.

Why do the needs of our own citizens go to the bottom of the list all the time ? Something needs to change.

enricoh

This poor craytur hadn't heard of the benefits on offer in Ireland n made an amateur mistake by claiming asylum in Greece. Give him a break judge, stick him on the disability after all that trauma!

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/man-granted-asylum-in-greece-takes-court-action-over-inadmissible-finding-for-irish-application-1454791.html

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120413207#Comment_120413207

I have often been in Greece and decided to travel across an entire continent to get away from the conditions there.

Honestly... Taken for fools, the more reporting the better.

The "far right" are obviously too stupid to score these open goals the media are giving them on a daily basis

tinsofpeas

The staggering ineptitude of these governments, or staggering treason, depending on what you believe, is good enough reason to expel them to the moon of io for 3 thousand years, immediately.

Here's something nobody's talking about, actual solutions. Staggering in itself.

A reduction in population is paramount. No point crying about it, it's self-evident.

1) a retune of the entire economy to fit the people of Ireland, and not an unbeneficial economy that feeds off imported people at the expense of social infrastructure.

- a multi year plan to retrain/educate Irish people into sustainable jobs in sustainable companies to negate the need for importing more and more people. If your company can't function under those basic requirements, off you go. All you ever were was a net drain. Call it affirmative action.

2) ditto for healthcare. A massive boost in healthcare education with appropriate funding to train, retain and encourage Irish staff and wean ourselves off the lowest-bidder system.

3) a massive boost in targeted and strategic education systems that negates the need for foreign student fees. And an end to visa scam schools.

4) a thoughtfully produced cap on immigration with all the above factored in, and kept to a minimum.

5) a complete overhaul of foreign aid. If a country has a crisis and a space program or brand new fighter jets or functional oil fields, they have to make decisions themselves about what they prioritise. We don't subsidise their adventures. Strong bilateral programs with the strictest conditions. Much tighter than now.

6) elections on regular timescales. No more musical chairs when it's handy.

7) a task force of engineers, architects, materials etc being made ready now for deployment to the Ukraine when appropriate to rebuild a set amount of infrastructure for returning refugees.

8) Irish social housing is for the people of Ireland and be ratified in whatever way necessary to protect it as a national asset. Nobody else gets to rock up and put their name on some list.

9) national structure such as water supply, amenity and land is not for international sale. And a clawback put into operation.

9) non resident investors, vulture funds and extranational investment schemes are no longer allowed buy into domestic housing. A clawback put into operation. Overall, decommodification of housing.

10) a separate immigration processing center established at ports of call. Maximum processing times of weeks for asylum seekers, no more. A one and done system, no appeals, no litigious legal wrangling. Genuine case? Everything afforded in balance with what's available. Rejected? Immediate escorted deport to origin. Anyone who turns up without papers is immediately placed back on a flight to origin, regardless. Pass the buck until it stops. We're a small island, it doesn't get easier than this.

11) an opening of alternative investment routes for irish people to wean off family homes as a make-do pension.

And so forth.

Vague enough, easy to criticise in such a way. But it's better than the absolute void presented by current governments who are just on their holes without an answer to a solitary question.

The future is sustainability. And thanks to the treacherous minds that have put us on this collision course with reality, it's going to be a painful enough transition. But it's that or...no future.

Today it's going to very difficult to achieve. Tomorrow it will be worse. So best get started.

If none of that rings true, feel free in explaining your plan of action for hundreds of thousands of imported people ad infintum and how to square them with the crises at play. And most of all, explain how your plan benefits Irish people in ireland.

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120413710#Comment_120413710

👍 + I would add a trimming of parasitic ngos and charities of which we have far too many imv and who seem to have far too much influence on the governance of the country

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120413207#Comment_120413207

he married father of two used a false passport to travel to Ireland in November 2021

This should be the beginning and end right here.

enricoh

It's all unraveling quite spectacularly for our no limits to refugees government - who could'a guessed eh!

On the news last night one third of all hotel beds outside Dublin gone for refugees, over 50% in Clare n Donegal. Anyway, keep em coming lads.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41105059.html

The Irish Examiner also understands the State is facing up to 87 legal challenges by those seeking asylum here who were not provided with accommodation- nice to see the legal eagles getting a slice of the pie also!

Beechwoodspark

just to give a bit of a wake up call to the open borders merchants -

Stories in papers today saying hotels want to pivot away from these migrants and go back to their traditional offering to holiday makers 

more lucrative and far less hassle than the migrants - you can’t blame the hotel sector really.

Minister Rod Gorman needs to resign for this huge, huge mess the country has been landed in.

mykrodot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418307#Comment_120418307

over 1200 asylum seekers due to be kicked out of these hotels by next month. That is on top of 85 Ukrainians an 29 IPAS seekers STILL coming into Ireland every single day!! https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41105059.html

Adding to that many of our own people who face evicted from April 1, this will become a very real mess.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418324#Comment_120418324

As was already pointed out by some ngo guest on Pat Kenny a few weeks ago when I think pat enquired about this obviously foreseeable situation. "State housing on state land will be required."

Potatoeman

The majority of these chancers are economic migrants trying to play the system. Move everyone from hotels to tents in camps with very basic amenities. No documentation coming from a flight then criminal charges, registered with Interpol, held in a cell and deported. Just look at Europe and the US they draw out the process for years so the economic migrants leave as they are not refugees.

Look at any country in Europe that allowed economic migrants, low integration, high crime rates, high unemployment and terrorism to top it all off. Our politicians and media are traitors.

We could clean out the social housing list if they went through it and removed people on it that should not be in the country, there are a huge amount of Roma on that housing list. Remove all of them and deport them back to Romania.

72sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418240#Comment_120418240

who could'a guessed... I'll tell you :-) The govmt did. They all definitely 100% knew, and know right now, what they are doing.

Meanwhile Leo today in the IT: look, look, look over there at those transgender children, now everyone must remember to demonstrate the utmost respect, decency, dignity in the discussion... LOL !!! #somuchcare

Another brawl in Citywest but don't worry, according to the Independent, it was only a 'small' one this time. When I went to look for an article on it to fact check, there was also a brawl in Eastwall yesterday. This is just not funny anymore.

I was going to make a crap joke about the Government selling tickets for the next brawl to recoup our hard earned money but I'm genuinely too upset to laugh.

I keep asking why that accommodation wasn't given over to students. Not wasters and violent thugs.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/one-man-injured-in-brawl-at-citywest-refugee-centre-42415065.html

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120437891#Comment_120437891

There was actually two brawls in East Wall at the weekend.

This cultural enrichment is really exciting.

Burty330

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2023/04/04/further-delays-to-childrens-hospital-if-accommodation-for-staff-not-provided-warns-union/

The country is going to hell in a handbasket.

Instead of harassing kellie Harrington, the media need to be harassing the government about the housing calamity, accommodation for healthcare staff, dereliction and why so many people who work in Dublin can't even live in Dublin anymore. The last priority for these pricks should be how many young immigrant men they have to find space for.

enricoh

The housing minister was over in the states for paddy's day. He met a crowd of the head honcho's from the multinationals who told him the main problem in Ireland now is housing for staff.

We have to decide fairly lively whether we are gonna try house the world and it's mother or just people that are useful to us. Some of the MNCs may just relocate now that that our 12.5% rate is becoming standardized.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120438881#Comment_120438881

Who says refugees aren't useful to us? Most of them want to work and pay tax. In fact, don't the anti-refugee brigade claim they are not refugees at all but "economic migrants" (!)

US3

Africans are mostly on the dole here. Welfare tourists rather than economic migrants. Isn't it 70% of Nigerians here are unemployed?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0791603519853767

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120439089#Comment_120439089

🤣 That's your takeaway from three mass brawls over a single weekend?

"They'll pay for our pensions"

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120439089#Comment_120439089

Care to provide data backing up your assertion that refugees want to work and as you’ve explicitly stated, ‘pay tax’. In your own time..

Economic migrants do not enter the host country for altruistic reasons. It’s to improve their own economic circumstances. This of course means that some / many will be economically active.

Others will never be productive members of society and will drain the coffers of the host nation. It’s well known that migrants from various backgrounds have very different outcomes across the EU. Compare the vast gulf between Indian vs. Pakistani and Bengali immigrants in the UK..

Patrick2010

Economic migrants aren’t necessarily coming here to work, many who have no or little income will see our social welfare benefits as very attractive compared to what they have at home.

US3

And of the few who do work it's in minimum wage jobs and therefore pay no tax, and probably get some kind of welfare help. Doctors and engineers come here legally with a visa, not as an asylum seeker

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120439365#Comment_120439365

From your own academic paper:

"Controlling for individual characteristics suggests that the labour market disadvantages suffered by Africans cannot be attributed to compositional differences: Africans in Ireland are a relatively well-educated group concentrated in the prime working-age groups. The paper investigates an alternative explanation that suggests that the African disadvantage may be due to the policy of excluding asylum seekers from the labour market."

Patrick2010

Africa is a huge continent, how can you describe everyone who comes to Ireland as African?, like describing someone going to US as being from Europe even they could live in anywhere from Ireland that Romania

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120440142#Comment_120440142

Asylum seekers are no longer excluded from the labour market and can work after 5 months on state benefits .

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120442172#Comment_120442172

Can they work up to 20 hours and keep state benefits and accommodation supplied to them?