Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Guildenstern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451412#Comment_120451412

And you just know government will promote this for their own PR i.e. sorting out their own mess!!

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451369#Comment_120451369

They’re not coming from war torn countries.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451530#Comment_120451530

Well, there has been a lot of talk about Ireland supposedly having 'open borders', but we actually have pretty strict immigration rules - perhaps among the strictest in the entire EU in terms of checks and immigration control etc.

Guildenstern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451621#Comment_120451621

Doesn't really mean much if once you arrive at the airport or port, you are allowed entry, however temporary (or not). That said, yes, there does appear to have been some work in the background. Perhaps government should have had better PR over the last year, in promoting that message.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451621#Comment_120451621

Yes, that's why over 5,000 were able to come here last year with no documentation whatsoever.

You destroy any credibility your argument has when you make such outlandish claims.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451688#Comment_120451688

But that's pretty much what the law says. Immigration control can hardly decide at the airport whether an asylum claim is valid or not (not unless it is glaringly obvious that the person is not a refugee and is just chancing their arm). Overall though we have a very strict border control set up - much stricter than the 26 Schengen Area countries.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451699#Comment_120451699

It is not an offence for an asylum seeker to arrive in a new country without a passport or ID. It is estimated that around 40% of refugees worldwide don't have a passport and have never held one. It is not an offence either for an asylum seeker to arrive either with or without a fake passport on their person. It doesn't materially affect their asylum claim one way or the other.

creeper1

In my opinion it has nothing to do with tough borders. Word has probably gotten out that all is not as rosy as previously thought and arrivals are going to be put up in cramped and uncomfortable accommodation or even worse homeless.

For Ukrainians it might still be worth it since they are supported very well financially. There's even a special sign in Paris pointing toward Ireland.

It's good that arrivals through the airport are down but that must be tempered by the fact that there was recently a record numbers of arrivals across the English channel. A percentage of them will be choosing Ireland as a destination.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/national/23439845.437-migrants-cross-channel-day-record-2023/

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451726#Comment_120451726

i.e. open borders, when you claim we haven't......

Also, it is impossible to get on an airplane anywhere in the world without documentation, so what happened it between getting on the plane and getting off?

These people are scammers, pure and simple.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451800#Comment_120451800

International refugee law and the ECHR etc say absolutely nothing about asylum seekers needing to have passports or documentation on them when they arrive in the country where they want to claim asylum - so it's largely irrelevant whether they have a passport, no passport or a false one on them. It doesn't really affect the validity of their claim one way or the other.

A person could have a false passport but still be a genuine refugee - it may be that they didn't have a passport when they fled their country of origin and have no way of obtaining one now i.e. someone fleeing the Taliban in Afghanistan would have no way of getting an Afghan passport in order to leave the country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451621#Comment_120451621

They're not even sure who's in yon hotel never mind in the country.... 🤣

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451955#Comment_120451955

So.........open borders, yeah?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451996#Comment_120451996

not open borders no, just international law.

ireland doesn't have, never will have and never has had open borders.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452052#Comment_120452052

What is the difference between:

Open Borders and Borders through which anyone, regardless of having no documentation whatsoever, can freely enter?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452060#Comment_120452060

A big difference. Normal people visiting a country for work or leisure purposes will require a passport or other ID and visas etc.

But people fleeing a war zone or natural disaster or whatever can hardly be expected to have a load of appropriate travel documentation on them. If they are making a claim for asylum and seeking shelter, then they don't need to establish their identity at immigration control at the airport. This can be done at a later date, as they are now in the protection of the state.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452200#Comment_120452200

So..........

It's open borders, but only for people who don't have a passport?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452241#Comment_120452241

"Open borders" is a pretty loaded term. Not everyone who arrives at Dublin Airport and asks to claim asylum is allowed do so. We're also hearing that people are being intercepted abroad by Gardai before they even board a flight to Ireland and are prevented from travelling. That doesn't sound like open borders. As I said further up, we actually have one of strictest immigration controls in all of Europe.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452321#Comment_120452321

How many are stopped at the airport? I understand from the media that effectively none are. Given that it appears to be close to impossible to get deported afterwards, we effectively have open borders, loaded term or not.

Seriously...when people come to this country under false pretenses, like ripping up a passport, that is an excuse enough to deport you permanently. You are dishonest from the get go.

When you are causing 'Serious' antisocial behaviour at accommodation you are not putting your hand in your pocket to pay for...that again is a ticket permanently out of here, never to be seen again.

What sort of red flags, sirens blaring warning shots etc etc etc do you want? It's blatantly obvious they are free loading trouble makers.

I simply don't want this kind of person here, they will add nothing to the community at all.

I detest this government for misspending money on this shoite and potentially putting my family and friends in danger.

We are a flipping island for Flips sake. How much easier is it to police the border.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452800#Comment_120452800

there is no real proof that the amount of people ripping up documentation is that big in reality, there has been the odd case of it but really it seems to be hugely over-stated and hiped up.

more likely they don't have any in the first place or when fleeing they have left it behind.

"serious" anti-social behaviour means different things to different people all be it there will be some aspects that there is general agreement on.

either way it's not of itself enough to require deportation unless it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the individual genuinely is a danger for which generally they are deported i believe all be it obviously some do slip through the net unfortunately.

either way, our immigration controls and policies are fine, we just need the staff to enforce them better.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452893#Comment_120452893

more likely they don't have any in the first place or when fleeing they have left it behind.

How'd they manage to get on the plane, I wonder?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452893#Comment_120452893

My very strong opinions on this topic are not up for discussion or negotiation. Pardon the Pun...It's the end of the road so no point typing out a long reply and wasting your time.

I'm a teacher and a mother, seeing a lot of the **** sides of mass immigration and the negatives of a surging population and I come here to vent!

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452921#Comment_120452921

The next time an election comes, Irish people need to discount the parties backed by NGOs. Particularly Varadkar whose been recently trying to position himself as some sort of quasi Cameron type conservative. Whatever party the NGOs and the media are demonising...that is the party to vote for.

Would these lads fit the bill?

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/03/12/ireland-first-becomes-a-political-party-but-will-anyone-vote-for-it/

I haven't actually heard the Irish Refugee Council et al 'demonising' them as yet but I think we can safely say they wouldn't be too impressed

However, a private, invite-only Ireland First Telegram group paints a much darker picture of the party’s priorities...

One post shared in the group bemoans the number of black models featured in a German fashion magazine and states: “Hitler did nothing wrong.”

Some members are also not above speaking in explicitly violent terms. “The 160 c**ts need to be dragged out of the Dáil,” posted one in reference to TDs.

Taoiseach Derek Blighe? Just a matter of time I reckon...

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453071#Comment_120453071

I’d rather vote him than Rodders O’Gormless in.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452800#Comment_120452800

The false passports thing has usually nothing to do with criminality or illegality. Invariably what happens is that the person has no passport at all (in many war torn or troubled countries it is virtually impossible to even apply for one), but the only way they can board a plane to their destination safe country is with a fake passport, which they have usually purchased out of desperation, not because they are criminals.

Once they are on the plane to the country which they intend to claim asylum, they no longer need the fake passport as they can hardly put in an asylum claim using false documentation. Referring to such genuine refugees or asylum seekers fleeing a war zone as criminals or "illegal", as our far right friends do all the time, is unhelpful and inaccurate.

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453123#Comment_120453123

Oh come on - you don't believe that. I mean, if you do, I'm a Nigerian prince and I need access to your bank account to move some funds.

Really though, I'm not a Nigerian prince. But if you're as willing to volunteer up your bank account details as your country then I'd at least admire your commitment to the cause of naivety.

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453158#Comment_120453158

What are you talking about? I never claimed "hords (sic) of migrants (sic) running around ireland (sic) (sic) raping and assalting (sic)" I mean, it sounds bad so whatever it is, I'm probably against it.

I never mentioned any country outside of Ireland?

You sure you replied to the right poster?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452951#Comment_120452951

thankfully they don't need to be up for negotiation or discussion, the government quite rightly aren't going to take them into account when forming policy, they will take actual evidence.

there is no mass migration to ireland, the "negatives" you are claiming to see are what you want to see, they are proof of nothing.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453137#Comment_120453137

Many refugees simply don't possess a passport and have never held one....perhaps close to one in every two refugees. Are you suggesting that any refugee that enters a safe country without a passport should be refused leave to claim asylum?

That wouldn't even work at any level. A truck containing 30 bona fide refugees hidden in the back could land at Rosslare Port. Deporting those people because they happen not to have passports on them would be in breach of every international law going.

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453123#Comment_120453123

Ah it's great to see the oul story telling tradition alive and well in this day and age all the same, renowned the world over the Irish ability to tell an oul sceal (as we call it round these parts) with a straight face it is

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453197#Comment_120453197

Yes. Deport them all. If they claim they X is some hell hole where they seek refuge from, the very minimum evidence we should require is that they actually come from X. Equally, Ireland - and by extension the EU - should end all diplomatic and economic relations with X. Because X is a hell hole from which humans must escape.

If there's no evidence they come from X, then however bad it is in X, they don't come from there. Right?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453188#Comment_120453188

you implied such would happen and are happening.

you said "So its totally fine to import hundreds of thousands of fighting age foreign men on the lash and hope everything turns out for the best.

The consequences - the murders, the rapes, the assaults - are so blatantly obvious and unavoidable that I can only hope that they are exclusively visited upon the people who champion mass migration. Those people deserve the them. However, the sad reality is that a lot of innocents will suffer"

very clear what you meant and i responded to that.

you can't bs the roadster chap, so best not trying.

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453215#Comment_120453215

The roadster...Christ almighty. A legend in your own lunchbox.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453197#Comment_120453197

"Many refugees simply don't possess a passport and have never held one"

How did they get on a plane then? By asking nicely?

minimary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453206#Comment_120453206

Whats interesting as well is how much aid Ireland and other Western countries are supplying to countries who are committing human rights abuses.

The first thing that should be done is to threaten to cut off any funding and also to restrict people from doing business/making transfers to that country. The reason a country like Eritrea is still able to function is because western nations give it tons of aid and also refugees from the country send back money, they have absolutely no impetus to change and the West is essentially funding human rights abuses

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453331#Comment_120453331

Magic I assume

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452052#Comment_120452052

Except for those who say the magic word asylum.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453195#Comment_120453195

So 230,000 pps numbers issued to nonnationals in 2022 is not mass immigration and the housing problem is a myth.

creeper1

In a no nonsense type of country like Japan or Singapore if you arrive with a fake passport the airline is either held responsible to return you from wherever you came or you are thrown in jail.

Strumms

Garda Immigration as of February are meeting certain aircraft arriving at the steps / airbridge to check for passports, because some of these individuals are hiding/destroying them on arriving in the terminals….before the passport checks inside….

theyve broken toilets trying to flush them, ffs….

Guildenstern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453572#Comment_120453572

That squares you would think when it all started kicking off in the media and the demonstrations. Department/Garda had to do something as it was getting out of hand.

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167104#Comment_120167104

Yeah but you must remember how **** Ireland was in the '80s. Houses were cheap because everyone was emigrating and mortgages were at 15% interest. Our hospitals were what you see in the third world now. Life expectancy is a lot better now. The housing list was definitely shorter but again due to less demand, people dying sooner or leaving the country.

You were in that golden age of the mid '90s to '00s where the hollowed out shell of the Irish economy had room to expand. People can't afford a house now because your generation decided Dublin's skyline had to match the Custom House but everyone needed to live in a 3 bed semi and drive a car.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453331#Comment_120453331

If it was such a shithole they were leaving I'm sure they're oppressive government would ban them from travelling altogether.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453197#Comment_120453197

How you can actually type out such a lie is beyond me.

Cop yourself on.

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453650#Comment_120453650

Development of modern medicine means that people with complex conditions can be managed and survive. Back in the 80s not so much, hospital medicine has got harder on the staff not easier.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453123#Comment_120453123

Do you work for an NGO? Genuine question. You're on here a lot preaching sympathy for people coming in here without documentation. You have no idea who these people are, or whether they really had no documentation to begin with.

By your own reasoning, criminals from other countries could be buying fake passports and making their way over here. If I was a criminal from a different continent awaiting prosecution, and I discovered Ireland was accepting people without documentation upon landing, I'd be straight over to start a new life. Anybody would. This is not acceptable, and it's not a risk the people in Ireland should have to be exposed to.

You're either very naive, or a bad actor trying to suggest people turn a blind eye to all of this.

Backstreet Moyes

In fairness look at the money being spent by NGOS.

You would have to be very naive to think people are not being paid to post misinformation on irelands largest forum.

Patrick2010

There’s a Ukraine girl living in Dublin with a host family who has a weekly column in the Indo. Today she writes about taking a trip to Warsaw to visit her family (why isn’t she there?), giving out about incompetent airline staff and a heavy backpack.

she goes on to say what makes her happiest in Ireland is the dogs she lives with “sorry to my human friends “

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454296#Comment_120454296

Defo. What a sad way to steal a living. Beyond pathetic.

Guildenstern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454296#Comment_120454296

A good point. For what it is worth I would have many professional acquaintances and even some personal friendships over the years with what had been referred to as those who work in NGOs. Most have been sound. Just doing a job in sectors most seem to have landed in by accident.

I would say I have come across the occasional PBP type as well. Pure socialist types who give very similar commentary to that critiqued here. And they strongly believe and assert everything they espouse.

Who indeed knows the background of anyone here. My deep suspicion would be there's a lot of representatives of various stakeholders on forums such as this.