Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Strumms

Clearly there are, correct.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453871#Comment_120453871

Absolutely not, I have nothing to do with any non governmental organisation or the state. But all I can see in this thread are far right talking points from social media being rehashed over and over again. A criminal or gang member from another country would hardly want to live for several years in Ireland in direct provision and on €38 a week. Also, a person with a serious criminal record or who is wanted by Interpol or Europol will not be granted asylum under any circumstances.

This constant talk about criminality and refugees is off the wall. We have serious problems in this country with alcoholism and drug addiction, violent crime, drunk and disorderly behaviour and so on and all people want to discuss in this thread is the supposed 'threat' to them posed by refugees. Look at all the violent attacks on Gardai in the last year or so....has a refugee or non national been involved in a single one of them?

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454457#Comment_120454457

I agree, I think some of the claims around refugees/immigrants are wrong snd just xenophobic (the racist word has lost all meaning in this discussion) . Many others however appear to either be backed up by statistics or the government have rather koo kindly stopped publishing statistics..

I think it is good people critique claims from the far right, I wish our media was as inquisitive on claims from the other side.

As I have said a few times, I reckon 80 percent of the country would be very aligned on what we should do, and it's not what we are doing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454457#Comment_120454457

You're saying a criminal awaiting prosecution wouldn't jump at the chance to come here and start again? Potentially face prison in a third world country, or come to a first world country, get free accomodation, free food, and start afresh with a clean slate... Of course they would. Once processed, they're on the fast track to a PPS number and into the system for life.

This "we already have Irish criminals, so what's the problem with more potential criminals from elsewhere" attitude is akin to saying "your right leg is broken, so we may as well break the left as well". It's completely stupid; don't lower yourself to that level. The patterns experienced in every other European country with such influxes should make us extremely cautious about who we allow in.

I saw an interview with a young Afghan guy here recently. He seemed decent enough, but clearly stated he wants to bring his whole family (parents and siblings) over when he can. Family can't speak English. What benefit is this to Irish people? Do you see how the numbers will eventually balloon exponentially?

Nobody has an issue with genuine Ukrainians displaced by the current war. Taking in men from the likes of Georgia, Albania, Afghanistan, Somalia, and then later their families... Where does it end? There's no war in Georgia. Nor Albania. They're economic migrants. Some were interviewed on Irish radio recently and said the reason they chose Ireland to claim asylum was "more jobs". Not to flee war, or being in fear of their lives. Even if they were refugees, where does it stop?

Meanwhile, young, educated Irish people are leaving in droves as they're priced out of accomodation. The new arrivals get it free. Educated taxpayers leaving, to be replaced by people from the third world. Often uneducated, little English, and straight onto welfare benefits. This is not a good thing for Ireland. By any metric. You see that, right?

How many do you want accepted into Ireland? Give us a figure.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454594#Comment_120454594

From what I understand, the numbers of non nationals and asylum seekers involved in crime or criminal behaviour are in and around the same level as the general population as a whole. There is no evidence that non nationals are more prone to commit a crime than the 'native' population. So, constantly focusing in on the crime element would appear to be a red herring.

For sure, it's bad when a non national or asylum seeker commits a murder or whatever, but that is human nature unfortunately.....there are bad people to be found everywhere.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454640#Comment_120454640

But all of that comes back to the point that you cannot pick and choose which refugees come to your country or what demographic they are (i.e. race, gender, religion, skin colour, age or anything else). It's not about admitting preferable or desirable types of refugees. International refugee law states you must allow any person who seems to have a valid asylum claim the opportunity to claim asylum.

Yes, it would be fantastic if every person who arrived was fluent in English, had a third level degree, strong IT skills and so on but that is just not how the refugee system works. The Tory government and their Home Office are trying to go down this route of being extremely selective about the 'types' of refugees they admit and deporting all the others, but are being warned by multiple agencies that this would be in breach of every refugee law going.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454812#Comment_120454812

The government could invest heavily in making processing times faster though. I think everyone would like to see this.

You can also let people claim asulym but have stricter criteria on who you approve

Instead we appear to be doing nothing

creeper1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454335#Comment_120454335

Yeah. Apparently they are going to throw more money down the drain (5 million euros) on transporting pets from Ukraine. What a collosal waste of money this caper is.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/government-expects-spend-up-5-26924665?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454954#Comment_120454954

This is ridiculous, we are providing refuge, not a holiday camp. Morons

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454733#Comment_120454733

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42557828

"Migrants may be responsible for most of a recent rise in violent crime in Germany, research commissioned by the government suggests.

The study used data from Lower Saxony, a state where more than 90% of the rise was attributed to young male migrants.

The report used statistics from Lower Saxony - regarded as an average state - where police saw an increase of 10.4% in reported violent crimes in 2015 and 2016.

Based on figures from the state's interior ministry, which keeps a separate record of alleged crimes by migrants, the report suggested that 92.1% of this increase was attributable to migrants"

I did a theory test this week.

I had to bring drivers license & passport

confirm all details like address DOB etc

I had to empty all pockets twice

lift up sleeves etc

had my photo taken & was watched while doing the exam.

I just thought to myself there probably isn’t even half this level of control in the airports.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454812#Comment_120454812

Screw the "multiple agencies". We have an opt out as per the Amsterdam Treaty. Automatically refuse anyone outside of displaced Ukrainians until we sort out the housing crisis.

The fact Varadker tried to lie and pass the blame onto the EU for the migrants is concerning. Shows he's not in control of the country, and unwilling to utilize our opt-out.

Beasty

Posts deleted

No discussion of anything before the courts is permitted

Guildenstern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455206#Comment_120455206

Again, good point re Varadkar whose tune changed when he turned up to Brussels and listened to other leaders exasperated with what they've had to deal with in their countries. The poor mite must have thought he'd woken up in a meeting of the far right, the term he and the media label anyone not on message.

What is it about the Irish psyche that it needs to be led, rather than having the confidence to lead. Britain, the Church, and now the EU.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455665#Comment_120455665

Someone posted this link near the start of the thread.

"Ireland currently has no European Union obligation to take in refugees as it has an opt-in or opt-out clause on individual proposals in the areas of freedom, security and justice through the EU Treaty of Lisbon."

https://ireland.representation.ec.europa.eu/strategy-and-priorities/key-eu-policies-ireland/eu-migration-policy-and-ireland_en

I know I'm repeating myself, but the fact our supposed "leader" can outright lie and say we have no choice but to accept these people because of EU rules, is insane.

Surely this can be challenged? He's deliberately misleading the people on something that is significantly affecting the country.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455665#Comment_120455665

It's a national inferiority complex. A NEED to be liked, approved of, and validated by others - especially our perceived "betters".

From the whole "everyone loves the Irish", to the song and dance about how progressive we are with plastic bag taxes and openly gay leaders, to the complete bending of the knee to the EU during the financial crisis, and now this latest crusade at again, huge cost to this country and its citizens... And for what? Retirement plans for FG and FF? Attaboys from Von der Leyen? There certainly doesn't seem to be any benefit or even logic to adding massively to already overstretched essential services and infrastructure. You only have to listen to the news to realise that.

It's this lack of logic that's most concerning. The only conclusion can be that there's another unspoken goal or agenda at work here. Is it to increase the population of the country as per FG policy? Is it another unpublished "threat" from our EU "friends" as apparently happened during the lead up to the bailout? Is it something else?

These are real and serious questions but as yet we're still not getting answers.

Rosahane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454733#Comment_120454733

Would you like to back up “what you understand” about crime figures with some actual statistics please.

creeper1

"We have a legal and moral duty to help desperately vulnerable people." That was merely a lie then as evidenced by that link from sb95.

The Muppets in Leinster House repeated this over and over. Especially one Roderic O'Gorman.

They need to pay a heavy price at polling day.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454892#Comment_120454892

The approval rate has gone up a lot in recent years .The government seems to be taking the view better to give them status allow them to work ,so that theycan move out of DP and make space for more arrivals. The notion of quick decisions to allow removal of those notgenuine appears to have gone .

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454812#Comment_120454812

That is why the govt should take a leading role in attacking the stupidity of these UN sponsored rules which are completely inappropriate for a world of low cost travel and smartphones - I guess this would mean standing up to the UN but I can guarantee that it would be popular with most people across the EU

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456117#Comment_120456117

Will never happen. Spoofing, storytelling, downplaying are the order of the day..

ParkRunner

If, as is looking likely, China attempt to take Taiwan it will be interesting to see what the EU response is. Will the borders be open and millions of Taiwanese be offered temporary protection and supports? That’s what should happen based on the response to the invasion of Ukraine.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456668#Comment_120456668

Well it could be true that certain nationalities are over represented considering their numbers here .Sweden does have a problem .

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456692#Comment_120456692

They are surrounded by water, they won’t be able to leave.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456637#Comment_120456637

Also two very high profile rapes by “black fellahs” didn’t happen at all which is the order extreme

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456620#Comment_120456620

This leads to our other major problem in this country - electoral choices that range from "same again please" to "you must be f-in joking!"

Add to that the "workarounds" that FF/FG have found to our pesky democracy in recent times - Confidence and Supply, outright Coalition, and buying off votes to survive No Confidence motions, not to mention guillotining key legislation through the Dail with minimal debate - and we have a very serious problem with our political and governance systems as a whole.

On top of that, and linked to my earlier comments on the need for validation, is a system where important and far reaching decisions are being made based on Twitter comments and crusading. This nonsense about the "far right" for example that's being used to discredit anyone who questions the approach to these "controversial" issues - this is IRELAND. We don't even have a "right" anymore (just various shades of Left), let alone a far right!

This is a country of "ah shure it'll be grand" attitudes, where we still love the "cute hoor" or someone who gets one over on "the system", where there's general apathy to everything not directly affecting someone, and where events and decisions happen and pass with little more than a grumble down the pub. The electorate itself is a serious part of the problem as well.

But who's going to change that? SF? See the end of my first line for that one!

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456817#Comment_120456817

People of all backgrounds commit crime. The punishment should be the same regardless, irrespective of the perpetrators background imo.

Star Bingo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456817#Comment_120456817

Oh there’ll be cover-ups ahoy. silencing; etc let it be known the devil works in not-so mysterious ways

high_tower

The Irish media are even worse than the Brit media At least you got biased papers for right and left - so far from perfect but balanced at least. Over here it’s all virtue signalling and cover ups. A total disgrace and very unbalanced. I always considered myself left wing and railed against the right , but the open borders stance of the left and how the gov and media have shut down debate has really opened my eyes. I can see all these politicians, journalists and NGOs for what they really are - just part of a back slapping, virtue signalling merry go round with not a care for the actual public.

Galwayguy35

If SF and the dirty red commies on the hard left get in next time it will be 10 times worse than it is now.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457320#Comment_120457320

Half hoping SF can read the room and go back on what they’ve said. They’re normally good at backing the right horse.

charlie_says

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456830#Comment_120456830

People are idiotic in their use of the PR system also, this is why we get ministers who got in on the 8th plus counts.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457288#Comment_120457288

The British media are much, much worse. Patel, Braverman and their numerous press pals have been lying through their teeth for the last two years, with their lies and misinformation about refugees being repeated all over their media and social media:

https://twitter.com/implausibleblog/status/1644994529198501890

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454954#Comment_120454954

I actually checked the date on that to see if it was April 1st. Nope!

Read an article recently about parents with autistic kids, criminal lack of support from government agencies- no funds, no staff etc. Yet they have 6 million to squander on this rubbish. Pathetic.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457553#Comment_120457553

That should be flagged as headline news on every platform. It's a damning indictment of this Government's priorities and where the needs of the citizens, voters, and taxpayers rank among them.

It's not just anyone with a sad story that we are encouraging to show up now, it's their dogs and cats too!

But unfortunately, until the effects of this start to hit a lot more people and we see massive Irish Water style protests that can't just be ignored or marginalised as "far right loons", things will continue to get worse for those of us who will be feeling the effects for decades to come.

Rosahane

Interesting perspective on the migrant numbers in Germany from the head of a police union:

"The government’s refusal to deal with the ongoing migrant crisis is a “dangerous cocktail” that now threatens Germany, the head of one police union has warned"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixFwFULHBbM

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457547#Comment_120457547

The only liars I see are the Irish media if they ever even bother reporting on the issue.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459130#Comment_120459130

A freedom of information request to the Home Office (March 20th, 2023) discovered that around 60% of people on board the dinghies in 2022 were genuine refugees fleeing war or oppression - meaning everything that Braverman, the Daily Mail and GB News have been saying about "illegal" migration has been a lie.

A further stat is that seven people who arrived by dinghy last year were found to have serious criminal convictions in their home country and were subsequently deported. Not 7000.....seven people.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459198#Comment_120459198

Well if they were genuine and fleeing oppression as you say then why didn't they stay in France which is a safe country instead of jumping on a boat and crossing the channel.

Have a think on that for a while.

Guildenstern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457547#Comment_120457547

If you think that of the British media then you probably need to read The Guardian or the Daily Mirror, for balance!! As a previous poster said, at least the UK media gives one some choice.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456640#Comment_120456640

Our "leaders" are just yes-men parroting from the same script as most "leaders" across Europe.

The fact they're willing to lie to the Irish citizens they're supposed to represent and proceed with this agenda to the detriment of our country makes me wonder:

a) why are we paying these politicians a salary? They're not fulfilling their job description and are clearly just administrators for someone else.

b) who is actually running this country?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459198#Comment_120459198

You were on here saying we had a legal obligation to take in refugees to Ireland. That was factually untrue. Your government lied to you, as proven above.

Then you claimed no correlation between migrant influx and rising crime rates, with no evidence to back it up. I linked one (of the many) pieces of data that proved otherwise.

You're embarrassing yourself at this stage, my friend. What's your motivation? Genuine question.

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457288#Comment_120457288

This is spot on. At least in the UK there are papers/other media outlets that are on both sides of the spectrum. A reasonable person can then be informed by both and make up their own mind about the situation.

In Ireland we get 50 shades of left.

It's infuriating

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459975#Comment_120459975

What part of Ireland being legally obliged to take in asylum seekers is incorrect? The State is a signatory to both the 1951 Refugee Convention and the European Convention on Human Rights, is it not?

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460088#Comment_120460088

Is ireland a signatory to a different convention than the likes of France because our refusal rate for asylum is tiny compared to France?

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457326#Comment_120457326

Is that a Shergar joke?

Republicans don't like horses for some reason. They've blown up all the horse statues.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460234#Comment_120460234

The refusal rate of asylum applications and international legal obligations are entirely separate things

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460088#Comment_120460088

We have an opt out. It's linked above.

Besides, a lot these people are moving from country to country. Ireland isn't the first safe country they've been in. Some of them are clearly welfare shopping, lol. Ireland is all the way over here by itself in the North West part of Europe.

You never answered the question, btw. Genuine Ukrainian refugees aside, why do you care so much about people you don't know anything about? Especially considering the crisis in Ireland at the moment. And let's be honest, we're talking about people who don't know or care about you in any way, either. What's the motivation?

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460268#Comment_120460268

They absolutely are not , if a concrete obligation exists in a pan European sense ?, Ireland is no less entitled to refuse the vast majority of AS applicants like France do , one can only conclude that this so called obligation is in no way binding and is merely a pledge

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460318#Comment_120460318

Use of an opt out would be a hugely controversial move. Most countries in Europe would want to know why Ireland was refusing to take in refugees, when virtually no other country in western Europe is doing the same. They would be especially baffled given that Ireland doesn't even have a history of right wing politics or media or far right populist parties.

I've no 'skin in the game' here. But I'm seeing a lot of lies and misinformation being aired around the refugee issue. It's strange because we don't even have a particularly high intake of refugees in Ireland compared to many countries, either historically or in the present, apart from the unprecedented events of the last 12 months involving Ukrainian people.