Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461744#Comment_120461744

Thanks for that contribution…

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461334#Comment_120461334

There's definitely something manufactured about this. We've been dealing with refugees for decades but suddenly when Ukrainians turn up after their country was invaded there are organised mobs against them.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461744#Comment_120461744

No not us. It's on the government. If it was on me there would be a 1% approval rate

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461784#Comment_120461784

You must change wigs between Luas stops.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461791#Comment_120461791

Many open borders advocates live in well to do leafy suburbs far away from where refugees, immigrants and the rest end up living and completing with the locals.

In fact if it were not for the pictures on the trocaire box where they used to throw the burdensome coinage many wouldn't have ever seen a poor person.

To those I say open your doors as wide as you open your mouths

maninasia

100,000 asylum seekers and ISP in one year. 15,000 kids at least need school places. They all need medical access. Many will want to move out to their own housing as soon as possible.

20,000 are being up in private housing funded by the state

1/3 of hotels and tourist accommodation occupied by them. 1.5 billion annual spend at the current rate.

But yeah you tell us there is no effect which is complete rubbish.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454954#Comment_120454954

You can be sure the breakdown of that 5m will be as follows:

- 500k transporting a few dogs over from Ukraine, business class

- the remaining 4.5m on fat cat consultancy fees

Ramasun

We're fortunate to be free to disagree on this even if I'm not sure everyone is genuine or in possession of the facts.

There'll be a free and fair election soon enough and we'll vote for the candidates that reflect our views. Never take that for granted.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461831#Comment_120461831

Where is that 100,000 in 1 year figure coming from exactly?

maninasia

Google it yourself don't be so lazy.

https://extra.ie/2023/03/04/news/irish-news/varadkar-housing-for-refugees

*The Government said accommodation has been sourced for almost 60,000 people fleeing the war in Ukraine, and 20,000 other asylum seekers.

In addition, another 20,000 Ukrainian refugees have found their own accommodation.

In all, the number of new arrivals totals 96,400*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461852#Comment_120461852

Your trolling game is severely lacking, but anyway:

I've already put a post up re: elections in this country. It is not a fully transparent system. Gardai (who work for the government) take ballot boxes away from the counting centres overnight, and return them again in the morning. Those boxes used to be properly sealed, but are now held closed with cable ties, lol.

We've already established in this thread that the government are lying to the people re: legal obligations around accepting refugees. You're essentially trusting this same government not to tamper with votes that could oust them from power, which they can easily do in the current set-up.

Therefore, it might be wise for citizens to insist on a transparent voting system where voting continues overnight, and boxes never physically leave the counting center (with the entire process monitored from start to finish by independent auditors, of course).

Until that happens, you might be wasting your time with all these "free and fair elections" 🤡😄

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461870#Comment_120461870

I googled and cant find anything at all to back up your claim.

Your claim was that 100,000 came here in 1 year.

I found some 2022 figures suggesting 70,000 Ukrainians and 13,000 asylum seekers.

The article you are quoting is about isnt about new arrivals for 1 year.

The figure you have just doesnt seem true from anything Ive looked at.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461930#Comment_120461930

Pure conspiracy theory comedy gold here 🤣

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461930#Comment_120461930

You're in Trumpland with that post.

Irish elections are managed and overseen to the highest standard and it's an insult to the many thousands of presiding officers that make our elections tick.

Counting is watched like a hawk by party tallymen (who are typically very experienced) and I have never heard of any election swindles turning up. And tallymen (or women) would be very quick to bring it to light if there was.

Spend a day in a count-centre before commenting on this again. Silly stuff.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462047#Comment_120462047

It makes no sense. The OSCE which does election monitoring all over the world has no concerns re major electoral fraud in Ireland. That post is not just silly. Its off the wall crazed conspiracy suggesting the entire garda force is engaged in widespread electoral fraud. Its absolute and utter crazed bullshít

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462115#Comment_120462115

Your numbers are a nonsense.

The US, accepts well in excess of the 125k "asylum cap" at its southern border. It's probably about 2 million in the past year.

Policy dictates they are processed at the border and released to continue their claims within the US. They don't by policy deport to places like Venezuela or Nicuaraga (or Cuba for many decades), and these source countries consist of the vast majority of migrants accepted across the border.

The 125k is a complete fudge, and that figure is generally regarded as a target for offshore processing of claims for people from trouble spots in Africa the Middle East or other far away from the American homeland.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462218#Comment_120462218

www.google.com

Knock yourself out. What I posted is factual.

Millions of Venezuelans, Nicuaraguans and Cubans crossed the southern border in the past couple of years. They are by policy processed by US Border & Customs officials, asylum claims are lodged and they are let on their way. They are not going home because the US has those countries on a sh*tlist so they wont deport to there and the Mexicans refuse to take them. Other nationalities are generally refused permission to cross, but those nationalities aren't, and they cross in the millions.

Watch the news every now and again, this was a huge news item the past couple of years.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462252#Comment_120462252

😂

Mother of God. Where to start with that post.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462273#Comment_120462273

You were spoonfed them.

Millions of Venezuelans, Nicaraguans and Cubans have crossed into the US over the past couple of years. Have been processed for asylum, and made their way to cities all over the US.

Consult your search engine of choice to find out more. Sorry you didn't read a newspaper over the past 24 months. That's on you not me.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462327#Comment_120462327

Lol, you're all over the map. An asylum seeker by definition is someone whose case has not yet been determined.

The US has admitted millions of such asylum seekers over the last couple of years - primarily from Venezuela, Cuba and Nicuagra.

For more information, please see www.bing.com

You're so wrong it hurts people's eyes reading your posts. And no, for political reasons Biden has not "clamped down" on asylum seekers from the countries I've mentioned. Just speaking of Cubans alone, by US law, once they touch US soil they are never sent home.

Ramasun

And there we have it.

The full suite of Muskovyte civil destabilisation ploys.

We were warned it was coming but I honestly thought we were more robust than to even notice it.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462360#Comment_120462360

Oh yes they have. Biden explicitly put carve-outs in his legislation for Haitians, Venezuelans, Cubans and Nicuagrans to allow them claim asylum at the southern border. And they've done so by the millions.

If those nationalities show up, they are processed and let on their way.

I love when this happens on boards, someone throws down an anchor on a hilariously wrong point, and they pummel themselves over the head making themselves more wrong with each post.

Great entertainment of a bank holiday monday.

Ten of Swords

@[Deleted User] do not post in this thread again

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462466#Comment_120462466

You are claiming that millions have ALREADY entered the US from those countries in the last few years and been granted asylum.

No I didn't, I said asylum seekers and, for the record, so did you (post 3873 and 3875 in case you try to wriggle out of it). And it is factual, millions did enter from those countries and have been given leave to apply for asylum. Legislation also allows for the entry and processing of 30'000 from those countries per month.

Do your homework next time.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462553#Comment_120462553

Ireland has accepted circa 85k to 90k in 2022, vs the US accepting 25k

🤣

A litte tip: If you want to shift the goalposts, Ireland has not issued 85-90k asylum approvals via the IPO in 2022. Nowhere near it. So you're caught talking pony once again. You may indeed be talking about asylum seekers and lumping-in Ukrainians who don't go through the asylum system at all, but you are certainly not talking about approved asylum claims with those numbers.

You conflate terms when you want, and then you go off the reservation when you're caught out.

You remind me of Wes Mantooth in Anchorman...

mcsean2163

Not seeing any links or stats. I googled.

https://www.state.gov/refugee-admissions/

President Biden affirmed the United States’ commitment to welcoming refugees by increasing the total admissions ceilings in the FY 2022 and FY 2023 Presidential Determinations on Refugee Admissions to 125,000, the highest target in several decades.

This is a significant increase as it was only 18,000 in 2020.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/us-refugee-resettlement

Not sure what @Yurt2 is talking about. Wherever @Yurt2 goes civility seems to disappear and insulting language follows.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462669#Comment_120462669

😂

Oh you're moving back to asylum seekers now yeah?

Right, like I said, the US has permitted millions of asylum seekers from Venezuela, Cuba, Haiti and Nicuagra in the past couple of years. And continues to do so at volumes of 30k people a month by legislation.

You took a long time getting there, but you're nearly there. Shame it means you have to eat crow and admit you're wrong.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462115#Comment_120462115

About 83,000 not 100,000

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462681#Comment_120462681

Wrong.

Venezualans, Hatians, Cubans and Nicuagrans are admitted through a humanitarian parole program separate to the mainstraim asylum process (which deals with offshore applications)established by the Biden administration (allowing 30k per month) and those already in-situ in the states from the past couple of years were granted leave to apply for asylum through this process also.

You can throw shade because you got paddled in another thread, but you're not going to save-face in this one. Soz.

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462726#Comment_120462726

@Yurt2 I'm not here to insult people. I'd appreciate if you dropped the abuse, it's not funny and adds nothing. In fact, you lower the tone of conversation with your adversarial diatribes. If you went around talking like that in public to random people, I'm sure it wouldn't go in your favour so why do it here, hiding behind a pseudonym? It doesn't make you a big man, just irritating.

I gave two links from the US government. Can you perhaps back up your claims with supporting references?

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462756#Comment_120462756

Do some google-fu. I'm not your search engine. What I posted is fact. Those 4 nationalities are admitted under humanitarian grounds at a volume of 30k per month to the US and those that arrived in the last two years were permitted to advance their asylum claims. All easily searchable and I'll leave you to it if you're able.

You're rather salty yourself, I know you came off the worst in the other thread and you took this as an opportunity to stick the boot in. The only problem is I'm right on this matter and you and Sancho are wrong.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462787#Comment_120462787

The US admitted 25500 Asylum Seekers/Refugees in 2022.

🤣

The US are admitting up to 30k a month from southern border applications alone. Do you ever get tired of posting incorrect information? Never mind the millions that have arrived and are now advancing their claims in-country.

Your "83'000" is a conflation of Ukrainians who don't go through the asylum seeking process at all and actual applicants from other countries (many of whom who will not be approved), which is a much smaller number. But you wouldn't want to admit that for the purposes of your arguement which is falling apart in front of your eyes do you?

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462778#Comment_120462778

In the NATO thread you dismissed me as a tankie.

Tankie is a pejorative label for leftists, particularly Stalinists, who support the authoritarian tendencies of Marxism–Leninism or, more generally, authoritarian states associated with Marxism–Leninism in history.

I reported you and was threatened instead by the moderator on reporting your uncivil behaviour. Look at the Russia thread banned users.

This forum is not a place to discuss the war if you want a ceasefire and an end to the carnage. I didn't come off the worse in the other thread, I put forward my view and engaged in the discussion and then left as the vile debasement of dialogue took over. I'm sure you're still there insulting anyone with an opinion that doesn't rely on the lord of the rings.

Back to here, quite happy to accept I'm wrong. According to you there were an extra 360,000 Venezuelans and others accepted giving a total of 360k + 125k refugees accepted in 2022. Grand total of 485k.

All I could find was this.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-planning-visit-us-mexico-border-2023-01-04/

The expanded humanitarian program would build on a policy launched in October that allowed thousands of Venezuelans to enter by air if they applied from abroad and could demonstrate they had a U.S. sponsor, two U.S. and one Mexican official said on Wednesday.

Appears to be for migrants not refugees, (30k migrants per month), and they appear to require sponsors according to Reuters. I couldn't find the 30k refugees/ asylum seekers per month of which you spoke. Anyway assume your Google skills are better than mine and bow to your superior googling.

Perhaps you could work on your manners next and perhaps elevate them to the level of civilised human.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462981#Comment_120462981

🤣

So Venezuelans fleeing Venezuela are not asylum seekers because you're floundering and you said so? False. Venezuelans are the definition of asylum seekers. The UNHCR refers to the 7 million that have left Venezuela as refugees, asylum seekers and migrants in their literature. And I'll be taking their word for it before yours.

FYI, I never used a 360k figure for Venezuelans in the US, you did. There are also other nationalities that arrived in the US for asylum in that wave, that are both in the US and subject to humanitarian entry program at the border. So you may get out your Fisher Price calculator for them also.

Report away - you were peddling classic Tankie nonsense in that thread, though for the sake of everyone, perhaps you should keep it to that thread. And if you want to get precious about "insults" perhaps you should wind your neck in with your last sentance there. You don't want to run the risk of being a hypocrite as well as everything else do you?

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462553#Comment_120462553

Approved asylum seekers are called refugees ! The clue is in the wording. Asylum seeker denotes someone who is seeking asylum. I’m really not sure how many times this has to be explained to people. Similarly, there is no such thing as an illegal asylum seeker, certainly not in Ireland anyway. Someone may have entered the State illegally, but once your application has been accepted you are legally entitled to remain in the State pending a decision.

Strazdas

I've a feeling people are conflating our high net immigration rate with intake of refugees. Our non national population (EU citizens, non-EU citizens here on work visas etc) is definitely on the high side compared to many European countries. Not exceptionally high, but high enough.

But our refugee population prior to February 2022 was nothing out of the ordinary, arguably rather low in numbers compared to many EU states per capita. The main thing that has changed has been the arrival of 75,000 Ukrainian people in the last 13 months.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463131#Comment_120463131

Newsflash: Someone who has been granted asylum is not an asylum seeker

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463131#Comment_120463131

As I explained, all asylum seekers are approved to stay in the country, albeit temporarily. If their claim is approved they become refugees.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463276#Comment_120463276

My God. You're still at it. 15k were not granted asylum in 2022.

You can go on the IPO and look at their stats, you're peddling false figures.

If you want to have this conversation, and you want to have it in good faith, use accurate terms, and use accurate figures.

They're all there at your fingertips, but you either refuse to use them, or just concoct your own reality to suit yourself. Up your game, seriously, because nobody wants to listen to someone conjuring fake stats out of their backside.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463276#Comment_120463276

Where on earth are you getting figures that 15,000 people were granted asylum in 2022?

13,300 applications for asylum were made.

The number of applications made does not equal the number of applications granted.

In 2021 39% of decisions on applications were succesful so 61% of applications were turned down.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463337#Comment_120463337

He's pulling it out of his backside and making it up as he goes along.

He hasn't settled on if he wants to rag on asylum seekers or those granted asylum. He'll conflate the two and then separate them in his head depending on how he's floundering. In fact, I'm not sure he knows the difference or cares.

Asylum seekers / refugees / migrants - they're all the same intechangable terms to him until they're not.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463351#Comment_120463351

The numbers in that post make no sense whatsoever.

That post shows no understanding of the difference between the number of asylum applications and the numbers of people granted asylum.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463380#Comment_120463380

You said granted asylum. There most certainly was not 15k granted asylum via the IPO last year. You're making it up, own it.

I suggest you take a time-out and actually do some reading and verse yourself in the subject. All the figures are there if you want to take a look at them - but the problem is they don't suit you.

It's not possible to have a good-faith conversation with someone who concocts figures out of thin air and then tries to slither out of it with "oh no, I mean this not that" when pulled-up on it.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463276#Comment_120463276

I totally get that the sudden massive influx of Ukrainian people on top of a severe housing crisis has freaked many people. It would have been much better had this happened at a time when there was no housing or accommodation crisis.

I suppose though those behind the Ukrainian influx would argue that war in Europe in 2022/23 is an extraordinary one off event and unprecedented for a prospective EU candidate member. To put it in some context, the numbers of people displaced by the Russian invasion are much, much higher than was seen in Syria in 2015. It's difficult to predict just what will happen vis-a-vis Ukrainian refugees in the next year or two. We don't seem to be at the point yet where the government would announce it has simply run out of emergency accommodation for them.

Having said all that, the numbers of Ukrainians we have taken in is not 'massively' out of kilter with other similar sized European countries. Portugal has accepted 55,000, Finland 47,000, Denmark 40,000 and Norway (not even an EU member) has taken in 35,000. Like ourselves, none of these countries have any particular political or cultural links with Ukraine.

maninasia

I even gave you the article , but you 'don't believe it', even though you were too lazy to check yourself. The article even breaks the numbers down for you.

Approx 80,000 ISPS (Ukranians) and 20,000 asylum seekers have entered in the last year to 13 months. The number given in the article is 96,400.

There isn't anything controversial in that number. You just 'forgot' about all the Ukranians also living in private accommodation.

Meanwhile ignored all my key points which are easily verifiable.

I intensely dislike people like you who say I am lying but don't provide anything to back it up. Everytime you accuse me of lying I will flag your posts unless you provide evidence.

Shut up or put up yourself.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463506#Comment_120463506

Total International Protection applications in 2022: 13,651

For the first two months of 2023: 2,137

Direct from the IPO statbank, your numbers aren't adding up I'm afraid. You can try to gild the lilly with 13 month years and "approx" that rounds up to the nearest 10 thousand, but you're forgetting that all of this information is easily accessible.

Edit: Ukrainians entering Ireland in 2022 (from CSO based on PPSN issuances): 67,448 - another egregious rounding error from yourself.

maninasia

75,000 or 80,000 Temporary ISPs (Ukranians) came in since the Ukranian war started. Give or take a month or so.

You are busy playing foolish gotcha.

LOOKS LIKE you don't want folks to know the scale of the numbers coming in for some reason, approx twice the number of those going to Denmark, Portugal, Norway etc

Why is that?

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463541#Comment_120463541

I've no interest in hiding anything, only verifiable data. The CSO had 67k Ukrainian arrivals as of December 2022. You can accept reliable statistical reporting or go off on a conspiratorial mad one, up to yourself.

Of that 67k, the CSO reported that 87% were active in administrative data, which would suggest that 13% of that figure either returned to Ukraine or went elsewhere in Europe (perhaps reuniting with family in another EU state or UK).

Does data p*ss you off or something?

maninasia

We are now in early April.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine started on Feb 24th.

Figure it out and stop playing silly gotcha games, people aren't stupid.

Once again you post NO links, I have posted my reference.

The CSO figures ACTUALLY say more than 75,000 Ukranian ISPs have arrived here in less than a year.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/02/24/cso-says-number-of-ukrainian-refugees-in-ireland-nearing-75000/#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20refugees%20fleeing,Central%20Statistics%20Office%20(CSO).

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463556#Comment_120463556

There's no gotcha.

What accounts for the makey uppey 20k figure? Even if we take your magic 13 month year, that's quite the rounding error. 6 or 7 k asylum seekers magic'd out of nowhere. As you say, people aren't stupid. No one is interested in hiding anything, but there is evidently an interest in some quarters in puffing up figures.

P.S, the cumulative CSO arrival figure since the start of the Ukraine war is 74k since the beginning of 2022 to latest stat release, not 80k. That's another 6k counjured out of nowhere. You're giving new meaning to the term "fakefugees". You'll have a satellite town of Dublin full of non-existant refugees before you know it.

We may as well round up the population of the country to 6 million while we're at it. #mathsbymaninasia