Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

maninasia

You were caught out badly with those outdated CSO figures you quoted.

Updated CSO figures here.

"The ninth release in its regular monitoring series, published on Friday, shows 74,458 Ukrainians had come to Ireland as of February 12th, measured by the number of Personal Public Service Numbers (PPSNs) issued."

That means we are at approx 80,000 Ukranian ISPs now, 13 months after the war started.

That's a huge number whichever way you look at it.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463570#Comment_120463570

🤣

Right, like I said, 74k cumulatively since start of 2022 until latest stat release. You're still pulling 5.5k out of your backside. Where are you getting your 80k from?

You're extremely bad at numbers.

While I have you, are you going to explain your makey-uppey 20k figure?

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463580#Comment_120463580

I caught you out with your own silly gotcha game, it wasn't difficult to be honest.

The numbers are plain to see, approx 80,000 Ukranian refugees (ISPs) since end Feb last year. The stats are the OFFICIAL CSO numbers.

That's a **** load of refugees/ISPs for a small country with a massive housing, health and schooling crisis.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463582#Comment_120463582

🤣

I'd take another read of that if I were you. The 74k figure is cumulative from Feb 22 to release of stats. Are you actually being serious? There's even a big honking graph.

You've pulled the 80k out of your rear. That figure is nowhere to be found in any CSO stat release, it's a figment of your imagination.

And again, the stat release shows 83% have administrative activity after Nov. '22, which suggests 17% of that 74k are elsewhere in Europe or have returned to Ukraine.

This is some craic. Maninasia and the phantom refugees. He sees them here, he sees them there, he sees them everywhere. But don't expect him to count correctly.

maninasia

You aren't interested in folks knowing the real numbers coming in.

Approx 80,000 Ukranian ISPs have arrived since Feb 24th 2022. Irish CSO figures.

But with you It's always an attempt at finding a smaller number.

Why is that exactly?

Yurt2

Just to help you out, in table 4, the CSO for pig iron sake has provided an estimate of how many Ukrainian arrivals still remain in the state. This is based on the following: Latest activity either address change with DSP, welfare payment pickup from a post office, attendance of an Intreo event, host receiving accommodation payment, active employment, or PAYE payment from employment.

The estimated figure remaining in the state is *drum roll*... 61,844 people

Not quite you're fake makey-uppey 80k is it?

 

maninasia

You seem desperate to try and reduce the numbers from different angles.

Why?

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463604#Comment_120463604

This is CSO data, modelled, verified and compiled by professional statisticians. You're pulling numbers out of your backside. There's the difference.

The more pertinent question is why are you concocting fake numbers?

maninasia

The record stands here.

Folks can see what you up to plain as day.

You were trying to use the lower numbers from the outdated CSO stats until I caught you out at it.

Everytime it's an effort to reduce the numbers from the stats selectively.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463607#Comment_120463607

🤣

The record stands that you're making up fake numbers all over the shop.

Your 80k and 20k are made up hogwash, you tried to pawn them off on people and got filleted for your trouble. By CSO estimate, the number of Ukrainians remaining in the state is 31% less than your made-up number.

Your asylum claim numbers were proven to be utterly fake as well. Zero-credibility poster.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463530#Comment_120463530

But keep in mind that France has taken in much higher numbers of 'non' Ukrainian refugees than we have - many hundreds of thousands. I believe the likes of Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland are the same too : higher numbers of other refugees in the last few years but lower numbers of Ukrainian people. So, there may well be an element of swings and roundabouts to the whole thing.

It wouldn't be entirely true either to say that this is an EU led initiative. Countries like Switzerland, Norway and Moldova have taken in significant numbers of Ukrainian people, despite not even being in the EU. I'm sure the exact same arguments are going on there about pressure on services, housing and infrastructure.

maninasia

Those Scandi countries have had enormous problems with refugee integration and are very hardcore in turning folks back including legal migrants too.

As for France Paris is an awful mess with refugees around tourist sites hassling visitors.

How many refugees has Denmark taken in over the last few years?

In the end instead of playing silly gotcha games it's self evident that we CANNOT HANDLE the numbers coming in.

This is on top of massive existing legal immigration.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463623#Comment_120463623

"This is on top of massive existing legal immigration"

Maninasia about to give us his figure for the "massive existing legal immigration"....

maninasia

At least you got in a father ted gif.

48,000+ residency visas granted for non EU in first 6 months of 2022. Another 3,000 through EU residency rights treaties.

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/immigration-statistics-for-january-to-june-2022/

Now add in your EU legal immigrants along with UK folks, that's a lot of immigrants.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463629#Comment_120463629

Knock me over with a feather, that's simply MASSIVE,

But, here's the problem maninasia: you're simply MASSIVE 48k figure for those 6 months isn't residency visas, they're visas granted of all types, which will include a significant amount of plain 'ol tourist visas (probably a majority) for visa-required nationals on short-term visits.

😂

You are too easy. For your own sake, do a bit of due dilligence before you hit the post button next time. Simply brilliant, cracking stuff out of you.

maninasia

Sure the top visas granted were Indians, Turks, Chinese, Pakistanis, Nigerians and Filipinos and Turks, yeah they are the main tourists visiting Ireland...not.

It is obvious the vast majority are for resident visas, students and working. Indians in particular have been flocking to Ireland, to study and work in healthcare in particular.

That's at least 48,000 non EU in first half and probably similar in 2nd half 2022.

Then you got 15,000 Brazilians moving to 'study English '. They aren't even included in those numbers !

Pathetic effort again to try and downplay the numbers that have moved here.

I'm not saying this is good or bad.

But there has been large scale immigration into Ireland of non EU folks aswell as EU folks.

Guildenstern

Disregarding all the left/right arguments and who has the right numbers, essentially we have a large number of people arriving in a country at a time of such an accommodation crisis. Yes, we have had housing emergencies in the past but never to the stage of the level of dysfunction there is now evident in both the sale and rental sectors.

In a country that to be honest doesn't do long term planning that well and a social support structure that is below average at best. Increase in population year on year, a poor policy framework or when good policies are put in place, they are just not enforced.

Despite the best of intentions, Ireland while undoubtedly having the actual landmass, is still someway off being the modern European democracy it tries to project itself as.

400 or so walking the streets should be a wake up call but it probably isn't. What if it gets to a thousand or even more. Are we just expecting people to stop turning up because word gets out we haven't got the housing in place?

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463693#Comment_120463693

100 percent wrong because visas in Ireland (much like Schengen) are for entry to the country only, be it short term for tourism / visiting family / conferences or possibly applying for a relevant "stamp" and IRP (which does confer a right to reside for however long).

Visas do not confer residence rights and nowhere in your magic figures does it say so, because they are not resident permits.

Once again, you're owning yourself and peddling bs.

Fake numbers McManinasia they call him. Nobody is downplaying anything, you're just getting found out for making sh*t up.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461996#Comment_120461996

You are disageeing for the sake of it. I see the figure is 90 k for 2022 the link 96k its now 100k +.A deduction of 10k can be made for those Ukranians who have left as per CSO estimates.

maninasia

Suuuuree the Indians, Turks, Nigerians and Filipinos are all tourists. Suurrre.

Give it up Yurt stop insulting our intelligence.

There was an absolutely massive increase in immigration in 2022.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41100601.html

The State issued almost 306,000 personal public service (PPS) numbers last year, a significant increase on previous years, new figures have shown.

A total of 68,884 PPS numbers were issued to Ukrainians and there was also a rise in the numbers issued to people from countries including:

• India: 21,471 in comparison to 13,815 in 2021;
• Romania: 15,581 in comparison to 14,036 in 2021;
• Spain: 9,310 in comparison to 6,850 in 2021;
• Algeria 1,488; in comparison to 169 in 2021;
• France; 47,259 in comparison to 3,049 in 2021;
• Brazil; 16,414 in comparison to 2,692.

In 2021, the total number of PPS numbers issued was 174,525 despite restrictions on travel due to covid-19, and the figure was 132,001 in 2020. A total of 196,177 PPS numbers were issued in 2019, when no pandemic travel restrictions were in place

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463629#Comment_120463629

Not forgetting the ,ahem, once in a lifetime amnesty for those here illegally last year. Family repatriation for asylum seekers given leave to remain also. Anyone know the average no. of people repatriated per asylum seeker?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41005649.html

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464124#Comment_120464124

This may shock and surprise you, but for instance approx 40k Indians visit Ireland each year as tourists (Indian embassy figures) Each and every one of those are visa-required to enter.

You're conflating visa issuances with residence permits. Nowhere in the stats you vommed does it say those visa issuances are residence permits. Because they're not. So once again, you're making sh*t up and trying to pawn it off as fact.

A visa is not a residence permit no matter how many times you post it.

You are a zero-credibility poster with a compunction to lie when you're floundering. And floundering you are.

BoxcarWilliam99

306,000 PPS numbers in one year!

How could we not have a housing, healthcare etc etc crisis

Mass immigration defined

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463627#Comment_120463627

You don't think there are mass amounts of legal migration?

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463923#Comment_120463923

PPS numbers are not issued to tourists those are the figures being discussed have you not grasped that !

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463609#Comment_120463609

I assume you can provide a link that its 31% less Ukranians remaing here .

The latest UNHCR figure is 77300 and 19731 in DP add to that about 2000 in own accommodation. Links are only to February.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464379#Comment_120464379

He posted 6 month figures for visa issuances (20k or thereabouts for Indians for instance). 20k Indians were definitively not granted residence in that 6 month window.

That's flat-out b*llocks and it's going to be called out. And the same goes for the other nationalities. As much as this may surprise him, non-EU visa required nationals can be and are tourists and short term visitors.

Example: A neighbour of mine is a Filipino nurse. Her sister and mother came to visit a few months back. They were visa required. Dunderhead here wants to lob their visit in as "residence visa". He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

Visa issuances are not residence permits.

In fact his own PPS figures over 12 months reveal that Indians granted a residence permit at half the rate of the first he was trying to peddle.

He was also bunging in figures for French and Spanish nationals for some reason.

He's talking mad b*llocks.

maninasia

Sour sour yoghurt that's alI I'm seeing here.

PPS numbers have EXPLODED , up 80% year on year.

306,000 PPS numbers issued says it all.

Not my fault immigration won't split out the types of visas issued when they easily could. They definitely correlate with PPS numbers to a large degree though.

Sour yogurt just sits back trying to douse everybody with sourness. Doesn't even find any of his own data or links.

Didn't provide visa numbers..I did.

Didn't provide PPS numbers ...I did.

PPS numbers are the gold standard data we need to reference.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464528#Comment_120464528

You're unable to read data and are bunging-in tourists and EU expats with PPS numbers along with non EU immigration.

You don't have a bean what you're talking about.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464496#Comment_120464496

It's in the CSO stat release. They estimate circa 60k Ukrainians remain and circa 14K have left for other countries or returned to Ukraine.

It's table 4 in the series 9 stat release. Knock yourself out.

So no, not the concocted 80k that maninasia came up with. You're better off asking him where he came up with that. He can't because he made it up.

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464559#Comment_120464559

Desperate to try and knock down the numbers anyway you can.

Its bizarre.

But you somehow MISSED that PPS numbers issued were up 80% year on year? Curious isn't it.

What's the agenda?

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464504#Comment_120464504

The link is from the DSP and shows yearly figures for those granted pps numbers . You are jumping around about visa issuances.

Yurt2

Also, the visa issuance numbers do not correlate with the pps numbers, so you're talking bulldust there again.

In fact the pps figures prove you're talking sh*te. Because Indians are issued PPS numbers at half the rate of visa issuances. Which means about half are short term visitors probably here to see the Cliffs of Moher or visit family, and you want to bung them in as residents.

That's congealed nonsense and you know it is. But you made the mistake of proffering one data set and trying to pawn it off as another and now you're caught by the short and curlies.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464585#Comment_120464585

Le sigh.

Maninasia posted visa issuance numbers and said they are residence permits. Which is complete nonsense.

Just take the number of Indians for both. The pps data prove that PPS issuances are at half the rate of visa issuances. I.e. he tried to overstate the amount of Indians moving to Ireland by a factor of 2.

Once again, the Irish state issuing a visa is permission to enter the country only. For tourists, for people visiting family, for people attending events or conferences, and also for people who may need student permissions or an IRP for their work permit. He's bunging them all in together.

And he's also bunging in EU nationals being issued PPS numbers.

TL;DR He's talking utter pony.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464609#Comment_120464609

Over 300k PPS numbers issued.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464633#Comment_120464633

And?

That's not 300k non EU immigrants.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464654#Comment_120464654

It doesn't have to be non EU.

It's a massive number of people for 1 year into a small country.

Unnecessary

maninasia

Not all PPS numbers issued are for immigrants.

Howver it's clear there have been a huge uptick in legal immigration.

Beasty

A reminder

This thread is about refugees not people who migrate to Ireland for other reasons

Any questions PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463380#Comment_120463380

You are literally pulling figures out of nowhere and mixing up figures for different things and claiming they are the same thing.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463506#Comment_120463506

You claimed figures are things they are not.

The article you posted didnt prove your claim.

You are now trying to change your claim to suit the figures because they were nonsense.

Strazdas

I suggested here yesterday that those heavily critical of refugee policy appear to be conflating our strong net immigration (the so called 'legal' immigration) with the much more modest numbers of refugee arrivals. I've seen stats that for every ten people who move to the state in any given year, only one of them is an asylum seeker or refugee.

*The arrival of Ukrainian people in the last 12 months being the exception to this.

Strumms

Italy has tonight declared a state of emergency due to the surge in migrants arriving. They cannot cope.

how long before something similar is required here ?

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467182#Comment_120467182

"The government, in office since October, has pledged to curb mass immigration but some 31,300 migrants have arrived in Italy so far in 2023, interior ministry data shows, up from around 7,900 in the same period last year"

Italy with a population of 59 million calls state of emergency 31,300 so far .

Minister Joe O Brien says Ireland (population 5 million) should prepare for another 80k this year!

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/ireland-should-prepare-to-receive-over-80000-migrants-in-2023-minister-says/

the only silver lining I can see from this policy is that hopefully people affected will vote FF FG & Greens into oblivion.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464162#Comment_120464162

Did you mean family reunification ? I’m presuming you did. Again, asylum seekers granted leave to remain get no automatic family reunification. That applies to people granted protection only [i.e refugees). Leave to remain is not international protection. Once again, could people please understand the terms that they are using ? Makes it much easier to have a debate.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467249#Comment_120467249

In favour of who? Sinn Fein? Cos they're definitely gonna clamp down hard on immigration...

Strumms

SF want more arriving, a strategic and disingenuous long term move to gain favour and votes. To get an iron grip on the country. To properly tap into the multiple diaspora, the left and their own set.

Labour here are finished, nobody is listening to them..7 Dàil seats out of the 160 are Labour TDs. 4.38%…they mean at this stage practically nothing to the Irish voter… nothing even to the left.

For all the parties we have, there are no reasonable alternatives….nobody is even willing to debate or even recognise the documented concerns of citizens, we who pay them to represent us, our interests and wellbeing... no calling for compromise ? Alternate solutions ?

can a zero policy not be instead a policy to limit the numbers ? Yes there are implications on our EU membership but look, the EU as it stands is fûcked. British gone and Italy next to say bye bye. The core is being ripped from the EU by its policies…. It’s no longer working for the EU citizens. No longer prioritizing its paymasters.

temporary protection is BS… most of us knew this from word go…nothing temporary. A bundle of lies from the get go.

Italy, Greece, Poland and France are according to the bookies to be the next countries out.

I can see the whole thing coming down like a house of cards in the next say 15 years.

get back border control… accept refugees yes… limit them yes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467478#Comment_120467478

I’d hope everybody votes for there own independent’s & who will look after there local area’s.

Jeff2

I don't know if this is real but is seems to be posted in Russian. Very odd.?

https://twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1645441521305387014?t=lmBl57RILYSn36WuRT7D-w&s=19