Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Thou

Indeed, and contrary to widely held belief according to European Commission fact sheet from February'21 (link below). Similar to Denmark, Ireland has no legal obligation, under international law to participate in EU schemes to relocate and resettle refugees.

The EU it states has never forced Ireland to take in refugees or immigrants. The opt in opt out clause, is bound by justice and immigration measures enshrined in the Lisbon Treaty. Our participation which was decided and undertaken by the Oireachtas is on a voluntary basis.

https://ireland.representation.ec.europa.eu/news-and-events/news/ireland-voluntarily-agrees-take-part-eu-schemes-resettle-refugees-2021-02-28_en

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547723#Comment_120547723

It's down to the most dangerous motivation of all - ideology.

Listen to O'Gorman, McEntee, et al. They don't care about the economics, the practicality, the long-term effects, the lack of accommodation, the healthcare shortages, the school places, the social unrest, any of it. They don't care. Because they believe that we should take in anyone and everyone who wants to come, regardless of whether they are criminals, scammers, or what their reason for arriving is. They believe that we have a moral obligation to the whole world, that we are The Evil West who pillaged, colonised and raped the poor people of the third world, and now it's time we got ours.

There is no arguing or reasoning with such people.

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549984#Comment_120549984

The thing is, Helen mcEntee has been on maternity twice since 2020, which means she has brought 2 children into this new Ireland, one wonders if in her heart she believes the policies persued by her government will improve the lot of those children as they grow into adulthood down the line, and all Citizens of this state wherever they originated from, or does it cross her mind at all what sort of a country she and her band of incompetents will leave to them.. Are they so wrapped up in ideology(has she any ideology??) and too far removed from the ordinary citizen that they can't see the wood from the trees? Or what's coming down the tracks, a glorified pyramid scheme which will one day topple over under it's own weight and then we'll ask each other "hey dude where's my country" when it's too late ... One things for sure it's the ordinary folk, those children born now and in the last while who will pay the price one way or another when the day comes

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550121#Comment_120550121

Helen will make sure her children attend the best schools, the best universities, and mix in all the right circles. She won't for a moment concern herself with them having to compete with her precious refugees, any more than she would imagine them having to compete with her dog, or the help. To her, helping these refugees is a bit like "good Catholics" sending money to Africa back in the day. They didn't send off sixpence to Lesotho and then expect an African in the post. Helen sees the refugees as mixing with the proles, not impinging on the lunch and theatre circuit, with real people, like her.

Ten of Swords

Mod - Can we get back on topic please, not sure why we're discussing the kids of elected officials so let's move on from that. Thanks

enricoh

I honestly think if my daughter was working in a hotel n it converted to asylum seekers I would be telling her to get a new job. No idea of who you are dealing with.

Drives a car at security, bites a female cop n is still in this country how?

https://www.kildarenow.com/news/home/1159625/kildare-court-man-accused-of-biting-female-garda.html

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549984#Comment_120549984

Does the current government strike anyone as one obsessed with ideology? It's a peculiar accusation to make, especially given it's a three party coalition, backed by eight independent TDs.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551522#Comment_120551522

Why is that story not being reported by any of the mainstream papers??

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552598#Comment_120552598

My guess is he isn't Russian either. Remember the Ukrainian woman stabbed the child the Irish papers headlines were "Russian speaking woman" stabs child

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552654#Comment_120552654

Georgian surname but God knows thesedays

joggerjogger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120536322#Comment_120536322

You don't handle a problem by helping people to run away from it

To accept them without it being a last resort will screw us all

joggerjogger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120536415#Comment_120536415

Fortress, cultural preservation

joggerjogger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120537143#Comment_120537143

So sieve them back out of the Med and back to Africa

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551775#Comment_120551775

"The government" is made up of individuals. A great number of whom are very much obsessed with ideology.

Star Bingo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552654#Comment_120552654

Only too well. Served my own time for it on here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552732#Comment_120552732

Proud man, bless we can conquer The Sickness in time I believe but first we must rectify the discourse in all avenues of power and influence so as the young impressionable folk of this island shan’t fall foul. And Taoiseach Viredkar calls for respect monarchists, I call for similar for nationalists of this modest fair isle.

Toicfaidh ar La and:

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549984#Comment_120549984

Helen McEntee is no ideologue like o Gorman etc , she’s just an NGO glove puppet who sees career advancement opportunity by going full bore WOKE

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553883#Comment_120553883

You could be right, I just feel she is so hysterically woke that she is a true believer rather than just in it for career advancement.

slay55

Wrong discussion …

T 32

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552743#Comment_120552743

You have all the answers jogger.

I actually think there is a significant risk of EU breakup as countries opt to go it alone rather than accept EU policies and quotas.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/05/04/homeless-asylum-seekers-its-hard-sleeping-outside-its-cold-its-wet-its-no-life/

Roderic doing a great job putting up all the people he invited over, great legacy

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556890#Comment_120556890

The word is out, Ireland is a soft touch. Many of them expect to be housed immediately and most from countries not at war. The whole IP system is being gamed to bypass immigration controls. Ireland can’t fix the world’s problems.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550121#Comment_120550121

It's always amazing that the people who cry about "where's my country" always seem to find the facets of societal change that relate to foreigners coming here.

From what I can see, the major societal changes Ireland has seen from the late 1980s onwards have revolved around economic development, Church decline and technological development. The internet, social media, smartphones Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, social liberalism, heads being turned away from the pulpit, urbanisation — these are things which have had the most profound and lasting impacts on Irish culture and all of them far beyond the impact of migration. A historic failure by government over the last 25 years to address the fact that the growing availability of careers in Dublin meant rapid urbanisation and the need to modernise the way housing policy works in Ireland is the absolute number one reason why that problem has been exposed badly now.

Yet for whatever reason, the long running threads about Ireland's apparent decline always seem to centre around migrants and refugees. They are the problem. They cause the problems. Everything is made worse by them. The country is changing because of migrants. They are chancers, layabouts, sex offenders, foaming at the mouth to entrench us in Shariah Law, dragging the State into the gutter, they make the weather worse blah blah blah.

All the other things, more plain and obvious in their influence as to how this country's ways and fortunes have transpired for better and for worse, are disregarded because hey, why bother to think when it's easier to just pin it all on something something migrants something something conspiracy.

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556890#Comment_120556890

A computer science engineer from Afghanistan with a degree and a masters, in this climate could probably have his pick of job opportunities in any country with his skillset if done legally, But I highly doubt any of that's true. He'd rather chance Ireland and sleep in a tent. Makes no sense.

A Moroccan where people holiday everyday of the year using the same same old shite excuse of I'll be killed (Why will you be killed? Sounds Dodgy)

A Brazilian who was living in Portugal. OK Then.

A Ukrainian who wasn't living in Ukraine, Where were you living then? and why up sticks and move?

Country is a joke.

If the media are going to try the sob story angle at least get some genuine cases to Interview.

enricoh

Government now considering paying Ukrainians here to move back by paying them the dole back home. Might as well put on direct flights at this stage.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41131885.html

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120537148#Comment_120537148

Going by news this morning about Gulf Stream it looks like we be ones leaving.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557604#Comment_120557604

There’s a big difference between someone with a visa and a job and someone with no skills, English or will to integrate dumping their documents at the airport after flying half way around the world from a country not at war to live off the welfare state at the expense of the Irish tax payer.

creeper1

The whole thing is a cod.

If we really wanted to help refugees we'd take women and children directly from warzones.

Right now it's whoever can make it to the extreme edge of western Europe with a good story gets the "protection".

In almost all cases they don't need protection from nothing.

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557950#Comment_120557950

I smell a good welfare scam in the air.

https://www.irishtimes.com/video/video/2023/05/04/im-a-computer-science-engineer-homeless-asylum-seekers-pitch-tents-in-dublin/

The only guy in this clip who seems to have a plan to pay his own way is the Ukrainian.

The computer engineer from Afghanistan seems offended he's expected to sleep rough. We have plenty of well qualified people here already, mate.

The Morrocan with the oregnant wife. First I heard that Morrocco was a war zone. Anyway the kid will be their meal ticket. Which was likely the plan.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558077#Comment_120558077

It will be like that movie where RAF helicopters froze mid air over Scotland and crashed.

At least we might get decent snow.

creeper1

You probably never heard that Morocco is at war because it's not.

It's a nice destination frequented by many foreign tourists.

I checked the "travel advice" on the department of foreign affairs and again no warnings not to go there.

They simply don't qualify to immigrate legally so they go with the asylum route. That is not what the system was designed for.

It's simply abusive of the system.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559312#Comment_120559312

International protection is not about people fleeing war. I believe its for people who fear persecution for a myriad of reasons (religion, politics, race etc). I am sure it is being abused but your war criteria is misguided. They can come from anywhere to my knowledge.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559312#Comment_120559312

A few things:

First off the bat, your country does not have to be at war for an individual to be accepted for asylum. You'd think 150 pages into the thread that would be clear, obvious and accepted.

Morocco is a tourist destination, but it's definately not a place one should stray too far from touristed areas. Parts of Tangier, Casablanca and Marrakech I've wandered into are some of the dodgiest places I've been - and I'm pretty well travelled.

The risk of terrorism in the country is quite high; there is a military occupation in the South; there are minority groups in the country that are most definately persecuted; it's pretty much an absolutist monarchy - and political repression as well as arbitrary detention and torture are commonplace; and I don't really need to explain that it's not a place one is safe being homosexual.

There are many concievable reasons why an individual may be accepted for asylum in Ireland or elsewhere. This post might not sit well with you, but we don't, and with our international obligations that we've codified into law, shouldn't, outright refuse an individuals application out of hand because they're from a country "not at war".

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558803#Comment_120558803

Yeah but I keep hearing people say that on this thread — over and over over again — as if they think it's some revelation that quiet moderates need to be educated about. Unfortunately, it isn't news to anyone really that the system is liable to be abused and is abused. But abuse of the system does not invalidate the good or the justification for the system itself.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557604#Comment_120557604

No one’s blaming everything on immigrants. We’re pointing out the issues and challenges of mass migration and especially illegal migration. Unfortunately these days if you point of the blindingly obvious you get called a bigot.

Star Bingo

A dicky tummy is grounds for asylum 🤣🌭🤡 come one; come all step rrrright up!

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559708#Comment_120559708

Bingo card post.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559708#Comment_120559708

How can you say "Rubbish" when his point is factually correct? The fact is International Protection does not require a war in the home country. You may not like that but to say it is rubbish at the start of your post is very poor debating style. It makes you look ignorant when we all need to learn. If you don't like the current IP process, that's fine, but at least try to understand the process you don't like before you "campaign" on Boards to change it.

How many more pages will we have of "but but but there is no war there!". It's infantile.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559947#Comment_120559947

You completely missed the context and the point to save face. Ok.

I didn't know I was in a pro immigration brigade. Ye love your labels.

joggerjogger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556153#Comment_120556153

It was a response to the original sieve commentary

More eloquently you could say having a weak border is not justification for chaos and human trafficking

Switzerland has an open border but it is exceptionally difficult to attain residency there

The answer is to tow the boats back to their departure point, disembark the passengers confiscate the life jackets and tow the empty boats back out and sink them

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559711#Comment_120559711

I don't think that the argument being made is as nuanced as you're making it out to be. The post I was responding to was far more melodramatic in its descriptions than simple sincere points about migration presenting some issues and downsides — it was the whole "where is our country" cultural apocalypse nonsense.

Even at that, this idea that you can't question migration without being called a bigot is nothing more than a whinge. Here, I can literally say it right now, I think migration should be subject to controls and limitations. There, I said it, as a Leftie. Any second now I guess I should be at the bottom of a pile on by the Cancel Mob calling me a bigot, right? Well, so far, I'm only hearing crickets.

creeper1

Oh yeah you can be granted asylum even if your country isn't at war. Boy do I know that. It should not be the case though.

Gay marriage is illegal across the Islamic world and China. Do we have an obligation to all those people? (which would number in the tens of millions).

Similarly women are second class citizens in Afghanistan. Should we accept all the females of that country? We seriously should not since it's their own fathers and brothers giving them that treatment. They need to change their own societies through talking to their family members.

What is NOT ON is Ireland being Santa Claus to the whole world.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559178#Comment_120559178

They only chose to read one email.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561080#Comment_120561080

Maybe not from you. But any opinion stated openly which goes against open borders isn’t greeted warmly to say the least. I’ve been branded far right on here and elsewhere on many occasions just because I’ve called out this madness.

regarding the “cultural apocalypse nonsense” have you ever lived for a long period of time outside of Ireland ? You’d be shocked to know how quickly demographics can change along with the tensions that brings that up until very recently just didn’t exist in Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559312#Comment_120559312

I was watching Supergarden on Thursday. The family were from Morrocco and had been given a free Social House in Meath. They said they had been living in Dublin in a small apartment in Dublin for 8 years, God love 'em!

It got me thinking how they qualify to even be here in the first place??? Also, obviously not working too or just doing the bare minimum to keep salary under the amount you qualify for SH. Both adults looked very capable of working to me!

Bit like one of our lovely, local taxi drivers who I rarely see on the rank, picks and chooses his work from experience, has about 5 children and bang has been given an A rated SH around the corner from us.

Only difference is we have paid 315k for our house, will be mortgaged up to our eyeballs for the rest of our working life, work everyday and don't pick and choose our shifts nor impregnated half the local female population!

System is so wrong!

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120560970#Comment_120560970

Fair enough. That could be one approach to the problem. The Med is huge though. The human survival instinct is very strong and Europe also has long land borders.

It's interesting that the UK are often criticising France for not doing enough to stop asylum seekers crossing the Channel by open boats or ferries/containers etc. I am sure the French think that if immigrants wants to pass thru France to UK, then let them off. Less problems for France. It's a symptom of what could happen when mass migrations start.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561514#Comment_120561514

But again, this is melodramatic. Open borders? We literally have an existing policy of borders which are not open. Border control is the status quo. Most people from what I can see are happy for a balance to be struck between border control, the benefits of the Common Travel Area, EU Free Movement and humanitarian considerations. This is not supporting "open borders". I think most rational people understand that there are downsides to this, and there is a liability for the system to be abused, and indeed that abuse should be tackled.

The fact however that our border control is not controlled enough for your particular perspective does not magically mean that you get to say that we have open borders just so you make everything sound so much more dramatic and compelling.

And yeah I have lived abroad and to this day have been in few places where individual rights, tolerance, justice, balanced law and order, stability, living standards and general prosperity are as good as that which we enjoy in Western Europe. And yet these are all the countries where mass immigration should surely have meant the erosion of all those things and Western Europe should be a total shitholes by now and not the generally peaceful stable and good places to live that they are.

Funny that.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559623#Comment_120559623

There is a hard limit to the number we can take in. At some point they will have to refuse entry or protection. At that point genuine refugees will be turned back too. It’s more difficult to retroactively remove what was granted to those gaming they system.

The proponents of mass immigration seem to think these people will accept their values while encouraging them to bring their culture and religion. How do you square that when their religion and culture views things like homosexuality as a sin?

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561915#Comment_120561915

Yeah but you're asking this as if it's a hypothetical when we can already point to outcomes. According to the detractors of multiculturalism — Europe has been experiencing decades of mass importation of all these allegedly backwards, useless, ne'er-do-wells who will drag us into a kind of dystopian Shariah Stone Age. But in all this time, social liberalism has advanced, not decreased, people are less religious, not more. Indeed, in our own country, despite what we are told is a supposedly open border policy where any ISIS militant with a sob story about how his cat needing Irish veterinary medicines can get a 5 bedroom house in Castleknock . . . Ireland has become more liberal in the past 20 years and more tolerant — not less.

So the outcomes you seem to present as scary — i.e. letting homophobes into the country — does seem to be more than a bit off-kilter with the fact that monocultural Ireland was a much colder house for gay people than multicultural Ireland. That's not to say that multiculturalism has caused this shift, but it certainly seems easier to argue that it has helped it rather than hindered.