Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562076#Comment_120562076

There has been some interesting polling recently showing that Irish people think that Ireland is a far better place to live now than it was several decades ago and have no wish to return to the older version. This is hardly a surprise - the earlier version had Catholic Church dominance, Dev, the Magdalene laundries, industrial schools, widespread poverty, strong media censorship, discrimination against most minorities, mass emigration etc etc.

The very fact that our population is growing quickly through natural means and immigration would suggest most people think the country is a good place to live. The Ireland of the 1950s - late 80s (one with zero immigration and a monoculture incidentally) was a very grim place with not much going for it.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561915#Comment_120561915

How can anyone be a "proponent of mass immigration"? Just because people project that it will happen, doesn't automatically mean they want billions of people on the move due to scarcity of food and water. Why does everyone have to be labelled? I sure as hell have no idea how we will cope but Ireland and the EU will need to plan for it. It will be extremely challenging, like nothing we have ever seen. I do find the thread title amusing given what's to come. After all is said and done, this is a discussion forum - nobody here is deciding policy and the policy makers are certainly not reading our posts 😂

Of course we could stick our heads in the sand and hope for the best...

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562148#Comment_120562148

Can you pass on the links so we can see those polls?

You seem to reference polls very regularly without actually giving any links.

It's not even worth addressing your pathetic attempt to throw in immigrants coming to Ireland since the 50s to 80s as a big reason Ireland is a great place to live.

The reason is the EU funding not immigrants, although I'm not shocked you overlooked the biggest factor why Ireland is not as grim as it used to be.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562563#Comment_120562563

I was born in 1971 and you are looking back through rose tinted glasses. Economic ruin, high unemployment, high interest rates, high crime rates, high forced emigration (I had to leave to find work but came back) and a sick twisted hypocritical church telling us what to do and abusing/killing vulnerable women and children, corrupt politicians making themselves rich etc. Many people were poor, hungry, miserable and depressed in those decades. Not sure how you were unaffected.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562474#Comment_120562474

Seems a bit simplistic to say that EU funding has made Ireland a better place to live rather than immigrants. The truth is that it's been a whole array of things that have acted in combination — the globalisation of the Irish economy has been one big thing that has helped attract business here, which has in turn helped Ireland retain and eventually even attract young talent. Immigration has undoubtedly played a role in that. Being a successful country is not some perpetual stroll in the park though. Of course it means that migrants beyond the category of first world college graduates are going to want to come, and that presents challenges (and opportunities).

What it really comes down to is, in the reality of a world that is much smaller than it has ever been thanks to easier, safer travel and better telecommunications, successful prosperous and stable countries are going to attract migrants and are probably going to need migrants to generate an economy in the context of ageing populations. I don't really know what the alternative is, either drive the country's economy and / or respect of individual rights into the dirt — or ban emigration for Irish people and make them all stay here where they would be forced to focus on the national effort to 'save Ireland' from whatever doomsday scenario multiculturalism is apparently going to rain down upon us.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562594#Comment_120562594

I know what would be a much better idea for irish citizens in regards an ageing population.

What about incentives for irish people to have more kids.

High taxes and high childcare makes it very difficult for irish people to have kids.

With the lack of houses forcing our youth to immigrate or live at home into their 30s or 40s means things are only going to get worse.

But replacing all these people with people with people who in a lot of cases don't even speak English is going to save Ireland.

While we keep pushing up the retirement age on irish people to pay for the people who are supposed to be paying our pensions.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562563#Comment_120562563

I certainly was and living in a working class part of Dublin. It was an awful period - widespread poverty all around me, many families couldn't afford a car, common for adult men to be unemployed rather than working. Also, a very inward and parochial society, not exposed to any outside ideas.

It's quite telling that it's this parochial and monoculture version of Ireland that the anti-immigration reactionaries would love to get back to. They're living in entirely the wrong era - they would be far more at home in Dev's version of Ireland.

Kermit.de.frog

The declining birth rates, and thus the need for high immigration, comes down to social policy like women in careers instead of raising children (by far the most damaging to a sustainable native population) or other things like abortion etc etc

These things brought in for various reasons, mostly noble, but demographically suicidal. Not enough children.

At some point in the future these will have to be reversed to stop a devastating population decline.

Until then we have to import while labour is available to import.

Society can't have it both ways. We have to either raise the birth rate of the native population or import.

Raising the birth rate back to replacement means reversing some social changes in the last 40 years.

It's not a question now but within a generation or two serious choices have to be made.

Until then if we want to maintain our standard of living and have workers to pay the pensions of an ever aging population we need large amounts of immigration.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562660#Comment_120562660

How are people who want a cap on immigration looking for us to go back to how things were in the past?

How would stopping immigration put us into poverty and unemployment?

Of all your bizarre posts around immigration this must be near the top.

Please explain to me your reasoning behind your statement.

You never do back up your statements but this would be fascinating to understand.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562723#Comment_120562723

Immigration didn't force FF and FG to create the housing crisis and health service crisis. FF broke the housing market in 2007. FG somehow made it worse since. FG promised to end the trolley crisis over a decade ago and it's worse than ever. They cannot even build a Children's hospital without going over budget by 5 times. FF and FG have always been corrupt but people kept voting for them. In the 80s you voted for whoever the rest of your family voted (the guy who fixed the potholes). I regret voting FG myself for 20 years.

How can you blame immigration for any of the above?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562740#Comment_120562740

You complete misread his post and the context and came up with weird conclusions. Try again. It's not difficult.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562783#Comment_120562783

Explain it to me so.

I see poverty and unemployment in one paragraph.

Anti immigrants wanting to go back the past in the next paragraph.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562898#Comment_120562898

In terms of EU migration here - so long as we are part of the EU we can not implement an Australia type pick and choose system which puts our needs first.

For immigration from outside the EU it seems more hazy. We choose to have a very feckless approach for which the consequences are still embryonic but I think huge damage has already been done to this society and the fallout will be in the years ahead.

Even if we pull up the bridge it's just damage limitation of what has already been done.

I agree we should take only those with skills we need and we shouldn't be shy about it. Other countries aren't.

Asylum seekers should also have minimum requirements here too. Why shouldn't they?

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563020#Comment_120563020

What a miserable miserable view

Was talking to an Egyptian at a social event today. Advanced computer science degree from an American university, working in what I can only guess is a 6 figure job by the name of the company. A very high chance he's a bigger net contributer to the economy than you in absolute terms via taxes, and inderectly via value added to economy (in fact I guarantee it).

You'd take one look at him and conclude scrounger. Utterly miserable, and your soul must by atrophying thinking this way day-to-day. I pity you.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562474#Comment_120562474

Here you go : Ipsos Global Trends Survey, September 2021. Ireland one of the main outliers in that a majority of people have no wish to return to the Ireland of the past.

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561521#Comment_120561521

The sad thing is it will never change either.

The working person is the biggest fool in this country a d certainly tte biggest loser.

It wasnt me

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563060#Comment_120563060

Surprised you where actually talking to an Egyptian at a social event considering you're never off here sprouting tripe.

105 pages in as you so eloquently put it yesterday and you still can't distinguish between skilled immigration, from America and scammers arriving from Europe.

An Egyptian he says. 😂

One example from 20k+.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562076#Comment_120562076

The end result has been a rise in right wing governments on the continent and generally a rise in the support of right wing parties. France very nearly had one too. Even Germany has a massive increase which I never expected to see. Why is this the case if it’s all going so well?

joggerjogger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561633#Comment_120561633

And there are numerous countries and a huge developed union with resources to address this problem. Land borders are even easier secured

You can't have a sensible immigration, integration or diversity policy if it's a human trafficking chaos free for all

France is happy to let them pass and the tories being tories in the UK don't want to spend any money to address the problem and would rather blame France and hand them the bill

Chaos just leads to chaos, it can't be chaos

joggerjogger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562660#Comment_120562660

You don't speak for them and that's downright insulting. Nobody advocates that. People just want sensible grown up society accepting and protecting policies.

joggerjogger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563060#Comment_120563060

You may not like the truth but it remains true

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563743#Comment_120563743

Oh look, it's the arbiter of truth who thinks immigrants are "possible murderers and rapists". Do you ever wonder when you're going through immigration in another country does the officer think you're a possible murderer and rapist?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562591#Comment_120562591

I lived all through that period - met my future wife in 80s and we were easily able to find houses to rent as a couple near Dublin, even though wages were low. Able to save a bit, good interest rates then and eventually buy.

Our children are now in their 20/30s, haven't a hope of finding a house to rent near Dublin and if they do, without eating up the bulk of their wages. Whatever savings they have lose value with inflation and poxy interest rates.

And yet I hear, government people saying we have a duty to house people who've wafted into the country from god knows where and who demand their right to be housed.

Not convinced the system is better at all. In truth, I'd say it's screwed and this government is going down the tubes next election.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563060#Comment_120563060

Educated people who have the skills needed to be a benefit to the country are always welcome.

Trouble is most of the young men arriving here on a daily basis are no use at all because they have little or no English and are poorly educated, they have nothing to offer and will be a drain on the already overstretched services here.

But luckily for them Mac Entee will soon be back so nobody will be deported and more will keep coming.

Even libs like yourself must be able to see this is a ridiculous situation that won't end well.

AnFearCeart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563973#Comment_120563973

Even libs like yourself must be able to see this is a ridiculous situation that won't end well.

They see it alright but don't care - they see every immigrant arriving here as another one to beat the conservative voice. They generally hate the idea of nations and see the whole world as an open pasture. They have a view of history that is warped - they see the past as a dystopian place where every ill that happened was because of White men and now is the time that repatriations have to be made.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563108#Comment_120563108

How many of the people that they polled were actually Irish?

creeper1

Yeah Stasdaz. This change is great 👍. The free for all open borders will bring nothing but improvements and prosperity. The future is so bright I need to wear shades.

https://youtube.com/shorts/mKNj2GPJC2U?feature=share

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564562#Comment_120564562

Jesus C, we are being financially (you know that word) left, right and centre. Laughing all the way to the local Intreo centre to collect their welfare 'entitlements' they added no stamps to qualify for.

I loathe loathe loathe that my hard earned tax contributions is going to those chancers and not services that are badly needed in this county and countrywide.

As I said country is going down the swaney at break neck speed!

DebDynamite

When people say we don’t want to go back to the dark days, they talk as if we didn’t have prosperity without the level of immigration/asylum seekers we have now…I was teenager/young adult in the 90s/2000s, so from the time I entered secondary school until the crash in 2007, the only Ireland I knew was booming, there was hope you could do anything (at least own a house!), there was positivity in the air, the streets felt safe, public services were good. Ireland had a soul and a vibrancy which sadly feels like it’s gone to me now.

So yeah, basically as a young person 20 years ago, I feel my life was vastly superior in many ways to what life would be like for someone like me now. How have we let standards of living slip backwards in the way that we have?

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563060#Comment_120563060

Don't think anecdotes are allowed on this thread yurt, even the fluffy ones, tis on page 1.

Stick me down on your pity list as well will u, ta in advance.

Backstreet Moyes

The only hope irish kids have these days of a good life is to move to Australia or Canada or so on.

While ireland may not be in the poverty it was before the EU, the country is worse in many ways.

Unfortunately things are only going to get worse especially when the American multinationals back out.

One of the big reasons they come to Ireland is because of the education standards here.

We are inflating class sizes and forcing our your youth to move while replacing them with people who in most cases can't even speak English.

What will it take maybe 10 or 20 years but this country is going to be fcuked in the near future.

Maybe they will all flock elsewhere when the money runs out and owning a house won't be so hard.

creeper1

I get what you are saying "Debdynamie". I think Ireland was at it's peak 2000 until the crash of 2007. However I would say that owning a home was as much of a pipe dream back then as it is now. They got crazy expensive.

I do sometimes worry about the "easy come easy go" with regard to wealth brought by the multinationals. There is going to be a lot of dependents still needing looking after (both foreign and domestic) and to do so with a reduced tax take would be absolutely crippling.

Star Bingo

Reading each one of strazdaz posts feels like gaslighting I swear 😵‍💫 have you considered the political sphere proper pal?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564778#Comment_120564778

The best of times, I’ll tell you and we were so well regarded on the world stage .. in peoples eye’s as a people; irish people but I’m glad the topic has moved on around here from feelings about multiculturalz to had your fill yet?! I mean it’s a start, because it’s apparent with the veritable drop of a hat we’ve had more than enough. There is no ultimatum, no threats no we haven’t even begun yet they’ll be storming you regardless just a matter of whether you’re willing to lie down and accept because anyone with a modicum of backbone and similar degree of sense says no. Hell no, and it’ll be a cold day before we allow it get to a point because every one that continually arrives will be seen as increasingly absolutely not Irish, and there will be the disparity and anarchy that these hipster leftists saw in a janes addiction video or some shjt do thrive. The government have already kicked into panic mode trying to slap a gag on the people but it’s hardly going to work as sentiment will be eternally more rife than it’s already become.

Simple fact is some point the buck stops; it has to. the levee does not have to give and whatever sheer volume continues trickle through can be dealt with. Gathered, and returned to the vast fcuking reservoir and amen to that. No more Goodwill, (sorry dude) no more pennies in the trocaire box for it’s becoming apparent only reap what you sow.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563060#Comment_120563060

He did say most are dependent on state help if that is not true prove it . Why does he need to to be pitied for making a true claim . You know one person who is skilled and on a big salary .

slay55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565050#Comment_120565050

If it’s even true …..

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563108#Comment_120563108

I dare say that's only because we are only starting to feel the effects of these policies, ideologies, divisive crusading, and the rest in the last 5-10 years.

Run that poll again in a decade and I'd wager there'll be a very different response!

Star Bingo

Wow. More than half of Clones now; looking for our assistance that’s buck wild man not even the indo can put a positive spin on it

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/small-town-with-a-huge-heart-clones-opened-its-doors-to-the-world-but-now-it-needs-help-to-cope/a1911649503.html

Juran

I'm confused ??

An family from Egypt, living here for 18 years, and they go back home on holidays. It wasnt clear to me but it seems they are depending on the Irish state for assistance, maybe Housing or welfare payments. Is that how you read it ?

Another lady, has a muslim arabic name, but it didnt say where she was from, might be Syria as the article discussed other Syrians. She has 4 kids, all born in Clones, said she was a single mum. What about the father of the kids ? Again, I am presuming she is dependent on the irish state for housing and welfare payments.

If I claim refugee status in say Australia, or Canada, will those states support me forever after I get my citizenship, or is their a cut off point to get a job and support yourself ?

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0507/1381212-homeless-asylum-seekers/

Joe O’Brien urging a search for accommodation for homeless asylum seekers

I'm actually in disbelief at how hugely out of touch this absolute clown is. An utter fool, thinks he’s doing good too, makes it even worse.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120566000#Comment_120566000

It's not so much about "doing good" for most of these people (and the vocal advocates online), it's about being SEEN to be "doing good"

We live in an era of virtue signalling and attention spans that extend little past the byline in a story. What you can see in the link above is enough to tick that box for most.

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563108#Comment_120563108

Q - I would like my country to be like it used to be?

'Used to be' when? - 10/20/30/40 years ago?

-Adults aged between 16-75- were asked. How many 16yo adults were polled? afaic, a 16 year old doesn't know their arse from their elbow

A cynic would say you could get any skewed result you wanted by asking a targeted cohort. That poll is meaningless as it was taken before this madness really kicked off and the IPA shambles was fully exposed following the influx of UA refugees

If that poll was meant to ba a - "There, you see" - it failed.

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565491#Comment_120565491

There's a few pics, then it mentions some names that don't match the pics so a bit all over the place that article but says most of them are there years. Mohammed says there's no work. Nothing, Not one job, not one single opportunity in all those years. Ask me hole.

Here's an idea, commute.

Travel 1, 2, 3 hours each way like half the country does each day, while paying someone about 2 grand a month to mind your kids on top of food, bills and a mortgage on top.

It's actually sickening.

Star Bingo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120566000#Comment_120566000

No fines for double-line camping I take it. Just free to be that Joe is a strange bird n all there’s a whole host of them on the rise now, it is the absolute saddest thing politics the new rock n roll it seems that pain in the hole from Teh Young Ones is in. With a bit of Neil on the side

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120566042#Comment_120566042

Went through Monaghan last week from clones to carrick- numerous ads along the road for crowds looking for workers. Decent enough jobs I'd say, probably nothing to rent in the county for workers.

Over half the residents in clones are now refugees - When not if corporation tax dries up we are up s#$t creek. The number of local twenty something's heading off for work abroad is off the Richter scale here, it's either that or live with mammy n daddy!

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561896#Comment_120561896

We have open borders in practice as you can fly in here with no documentation from anywhere to claim asylum. Then just disappear into the ether , even if you do get your asylum turned down ( only a 20% chance if that ) then you have to make sure you deport yourself - most don’t.

we are talking about fast demographics change - not liberties or shitholes - which many of them actually are.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565866#Comment_120565866

Australia had the right idea. However harsh it might be. Push the immigrant boats back.

The real issue as even the Dali Lama has been quoted as saying. Europe cannot possibly take in everyone from the developing world who fancies an easier life.

The real solution is for these countries to get their own **** together and make their countries viable places to live.

Before anyone starts waffling on about all the Irish uwho emigrated. They got nothing free. They worked to make a better life for themselves.

Jeff2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120566000#Comment_120566000

That the so strange and out of touch thing I'v seen so far. Well come close.

Put them all in the RDS up the road.

Not to worry about the Irishs.

thegame983

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120566000#Comment_120566000

Has he checked daft.ie? Has anyone told these asylum seekers what the going rates for rent are in this country?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120567214#Comment_120567214

"Fancies an easier life" is an interesting way of describing someone fleeing a war, natural disaster, famine, civil unrest, authoritarian regimes, religious oppression, the Taliban, Ukraine etc.

Tipperary animal lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568255#Comment_120568255

I suppose thats why a fair few head back to their own countries for a holiday once they've got the irish passport. Not all of them are as they say but the emotional blackmail seems strong in this post again.