Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392377#Comment_122392377

If you're talking about Dundrum in Co. Tipperary

The hotel was burned and is closed for a long long time.

The asylum seekers stay in holiday homes across the site (really nice apartments) and the owner is an American dude, the less said about him the better, nasty is being to kind

Billy Mays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392381#Comment_122392381

Spoiler Warning

None of your business

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391928#Comment_122391928

So you think tents should be allowed encamp along our city centre waterways ? Or is it that you think posh people live there so that's ok ?

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392424#Comment_122392424

1. Have a limit on numbers in line with what the country can realistically expect to support without impacting on service levels

2. Have an efficient application system which, when a decision is made, the applicant is deported if its rejected

3. Anyone who gers convicted in court is deported permanently.

4. Have a visa system based on skills requirements.

Some basic process which is clearly lacking

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392458#Comment_122392458

Anecdotal stuff is frowned upon here didn't you know. I'd expect your anecdote to be deleted since that's what happens to them, um, sometimes.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392487#Comment_122392487

Agree with all this but I think you owe me an answer on Paschal first.

A limit on numbers will be hard to enforce and encourage more illegal migrants. The NI border is a sieve. And where do you house the ones being processed?

I also asked Sweet Science.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392487#Comment_122392487

1 and 2 aren't at all feasible.

3 not possible in every scenario, but that's the focus of current policy.

4 is already in place for visas. Work permits are issued where there's deemed to be industry shortages.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392499#Comment_122392499

It was michael mcgrath who.left for a EU gig. Not paschal.

Govt has no plan. Just throw money at hotels and hopefully it works out.

A small village in Tipp is about to get completely over run with thousands of migrants and it seems to be grand.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392184#Comment_122392184

I've already posted some measures which I think we should look at.

But what's important here, especially in the context of recent days, is to be aware that there is no quick fix to this issue readily available to our government, or indeed being proposed by any of the major parties.

Some fringe political figures have proposals but from what I can see these are only going further with measures which have already failed, or wouldn't be practical to apply here.

Given then the unsustainable spending we have coming from policing these protests, arson attacks, riots etc. I see no option available to the gov other than to crack down on the violent and dangerous elements within the anti-immigration movements. This might involve some legislative changes to distinguish between legitimate and bogus 'peaceful' protestors, domestic terrorism laws etc.

A positive knock on effect, welcome to many whether left, right or center, might be improvements in how we deal with repeat offenders.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392583#Comment_122392583

And the most recent iteration of affordable on the Oscar Traynor Road is half a million.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122389462#Comment_122389462

I can't see Ireland following the Danish approach and it's worth noting that none of our serious political figures are proposing it.

We're far too dependent on the EU to follow that approach of just pushing IPAs towards other EU countries.

After that we simply don't have the police resources to implement that kind of surveillance of IPAs.

Nor is the Danish approach likely to work if taken up more widely within the EU. It then just becomes a general deterrent policy, the type which have been shown to fail repeatedly.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392565#Comment_122392565

It was me who told you about McGrath. Apology accepted 😉

I agree the government have no plans. I doubt the next government will have a plan.

Will the EU migration pact help?

Which Tipp village is being overrun with 1000s of migrants?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392583#Comment_122392583

Do you think zero migration is possible?

Goldengirl

Just some accuracy about Dundrum House hotel .

"Dundrum House was opened as a hotel in 1981. In April 2014 the property went into receivership and KPMG took over the management of the Resort. Following a fire in September 2015 during which the Hotel Ballroom and Kitchens were damaged, the Hotel building was closed to guests and visitors."

The golf course, clubhouse and restaurant separate to the main building have been in use all along .and used for functions .

The present owner Jeff Leo who purchased Dundrum House and Golf Resort in 2019 hoped to start redevelopment of the main house before the pandemic but it didn't get there , and he has been leasing golf lodges to the government for Ukrainians for the last 18 months .

The main building has yet to be refurbished and hasn't been in use for many years now .

Obviously cutting his losses here at this stage .

It's a shame for the community to be fair , mostly rural small village . Historic and reputedly haunted old Georgian building

https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/home/433271/co-tipperarys-dundrum-househotel-gears-up-for-multi-million-euro-upgrade.html

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.dundrumhousehotel.com/dundrum-history.htm&ved=2ahUKEwiyzZu2rq6HAxUSUkEAHVh6ArcQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2qysw0X6qYpxd8_-4sBcTk

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391127#Comment_122391127

Do you ever actually read what you put up??? There is all the difference in the world between what was envisaged with that a few years ago and 550+ occupancy conversion of a factory. It's the difference between your neighbour putting in a septic tank and the council or Irish Water building a municipal sewage treatment plant on your doorstep. You might ignore the former but you'd bloody well take a long hard look at the latter.

But do you read?? I'd be embarrassed if I put that link up as evidence to back an argument.

The conditions include the below:

• The works required should be mainly to the interior of the building with limited external works being permitted which should be in keeping with the building and neighbouring buildings, including the provision of on-street access to upper floors and alterations to existing ground floor shop fronts in respect of window and architectural details.
• Works to the ground floor of a structure should not conflict with an objective in a development plan for the structure to remain in retail use, with the exception of works solely for the provision of on-street access to upper floors.
• No more than 9 individual residential units can be provided in a building.
• Minimum standards apply to residential units being developed such as minimum requirements in relation to overall floor areas, storage space requirements and the need for adequate natural light in living rooms and bedrooms.
• Works to a protected structure are not permitted.
• Works for the provision of on-site wastewater treatment and disposal systems i.e. septic tanks, are not permitted under the exemption.
• Works are not permitted in a number of limited areas, such as areas of special planning control, areas to which special amenity area orders relate and within certain proximity distances of establishments to which the major accident regulations apply.
• There is provision for issues such as bats and nesting birds which are protected by EU legislation.
• The development must not contravene a condition attached to a prior planning permission obtained.

No more than 9 individual residential units……………………………… not FIVE HUNDRED.

dublin49

Are the powers that be not allowed to look beyond second half of 2024 because its too daunting .Who would have thought that we would have to house 100s of thousands of non nationals in the coming years before we even consider our own people.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392544#Comment_122392544

Might be time to consider a one way ticket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392642#Comment_122392642

If the economy tanks yea.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392644#Comment_122392644

The principals the same and given the amount of unused commercial property in the country, especially in rural areas, it certainly allows that larger number of residents could move to an area exempt from planning.

I don't know why you've highlighted about changes to exterior of the building or sewage works. I really don't think that's what anybody was rioting about, do you?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392669#Comment_122392669

Doesn't really answer the question though. Shame isn't a fact. Is it physically possible? For example, it would need a hard border with NI at a very minimum. Agreed? What else?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392544#Comment_122392544

When have you said it before ??

/S

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392704#Comment_122392704

It is possibly the most inefficient way to answer the question. Lots of emotive nonsense really.

The question is how we could physically lock down Ireland to allow for zero immigration? It's the thread title. I made one key suggestion (hard border NI, doable), you have offered zero.

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392625#Comment_122392625

Ireland is one of the last Member States in which an asylum seeker will arrive when in the EU, asylum seekers are ‘pushed’ from Denmark to Sweden or from Italy to France, but it is practically impossible to ‘push’ an asylum seeker to another EU Member State from Ireland. All you do is disincentivise them travelling on to Ireland. Certain policies of deterrence involve an investment in personnel, others don’t, for example, moving from offering permanent permission to temporary permission doesn’t require a ridiculous increase in staffing. Begin by implementing the policies that don’t require considerable upfront investment, but the Government has to invest in personnel and infrastructure on asylum regardless, so it isn’t really a question of increasing investment, it is only a question of where we increase investment. I maintain it should be in policies of deterrence. As for a lack of political will, that is the only point I’ll give you. That’s why it’s important that people begin to become aware of it as a policy option. An EU Member State doesn’t have to elect a far-right party and commit crimes against humanity to implement policies of deterrence, a left-leaning Government has introduced policies of deterrence specifically intended to be in-line with the minimum EU requirements. If the public were aware of these policy options, I reckon they would be very popular. Media won’t cover them, politicians won’t discuss them unless specifically asked, the message on effective policies of deterrence has to be spread, too many people associate all criticism of asylum policy with absolute head-cases burning buildings.

Viscount Aggro

The situation has gone beyond what people will tolerate. The Govt. are not listening to people.

Regardless of allowing more people in... they won't be able to integrate them. What matters in Ireland is.. connections, family.. also known as social capital.

Most of these immigrants won't have this... And they won't achieve or own anything.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392724#Comment_122392724

You're pretty much just confirming that Ireland would be pushing IPAs towards other EU countries. Somebody choosing to not come here means they will go to another EU country, regardless of whether they have already landed here.

It's exactly the type of thing we need to avoid given the serious existential threat a split on immigration lines poses to the EU.

There's a reason this approach isn't being seriously considered in Ireland and it's not because people aren't aware of it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44632471

https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/eu-is-stuck-with-its-one-trick-refugee-policy-2023-10-09/

https://theconversation.com/how-migrant-crisis-could-lead-to-the-break-up-of-the-eu-41727

After that it's just another deterrent approach, which have failed elsewhere and don't come without consequence even if some look superficially that they might be implemented cheaply.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392752#Comment_122392752

So again. Lots of vague words. Zero how. WUM methinks.

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392762#Comment_122392762

It doesn’t ‘push’ asylum seekers anywhere that they aren’t in to begin with, 70% of them are secondary movements from other Member States to Ireland. You know this. Ireland implementing policies of deterrence isn’t something that could be blamed on the State in the way you suggest. Yes, Sweden can say that Denmark is pushing asylum seekers on the State. France can say that Italy is pushing asylum seekers on the State. Germany cannot say that Ireland is pushing asylum seekers on to State. Nowhere can - we’re an island on the edge of Europe. We are downstream of all of this. So this idea that the State would be blamed is a fiction. And as far as your two old opinion pieces are concerned, they don’t say anything other than that migration is an existential policy point for the EU. Sure, I agree with that, start reducing migration EU wide by implementing policies of deterrence that compliment externalisation policies. There’s limited utility in making it harder for people to get to the EU if you don’t make getting to the EU less attractive!

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122390973#Comment_122390973

He was spot on with his remarks here. Country is a mess because we have no respect for law and order. We’re a stones throw from anarchy. Quite a few at these “peaceful” protests are real vermin

Madeoface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392583#Comment_122392583

Nonsense.

11,938 social housing units delivered in 2023 according to a press release on gov.ie yesterday.

More funding in 2024 too so how could it drop to from almost 6,000 in the first half of 2023 to 190 in 2024?

Your source a caller into Joe Duffy?

Goldengirl

@Geert von Instetten

The problem I have with your post is they ( the Danish government ) enacted stricter policies to appease a very right wing minority coalition party and that is not a road I would like to see us going down .

Ireland has had a massive 95% increase in IPO officials processing applications since 2022.

Applications from safe countries are now being turned around much faster and those seeking asylum from those same countries has dropped by 50% since January .

80% appeals from safe countries are now being rejected .Appeals take up time but this has been reduced to less than two years from most countries and 5.5 months from safe in the last year . That is a big improvement .

The next problem is removal / deportation once applications are refused and benefits are withdrawn .

Some people will leave , self deport once they get rejected others won't . Staying on , far more likely to be working in the black economy, in poverty , not paying tax and getting involved in crime .

This is where we need a stronger path from government and I would and have been in favour of encouraged deportations and forced deportations where those do not happen within a short timeframe .

But we will need places all over the country to accommodate people while being processed , at the very least .

We are not unique in Europe in this . Denmark is .

What more do you think we should be doing bearing in mind our present centrist government with centrist electorate ?

vival20062

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392908#Comment_122392908

What are the stats on immigration vs emigration for ireland 2024?