Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120566798#Comment_120566798

But again, you can't just take an imperfection in the system and call that 'open borders'. If you're waiting around for a system that works absolutely perfectly, with no downsides, where every dishonesty is identified and punished, well that's great — but it's also a pipe dream.

I mean, even if that 20% chance of rejection figure you quote there is true (wondering where this figure came from, and whether it relates only to asylum seeker figures, which is a smaller subset of total refugee/asylum figures) then even that does not amount to an 'open border in practice' because an open border would be 0% and literally everyone would.be flooding to Ireland without a single rejection, to the point where there would be almost zero point to any visa system. This is not the situation we have, no matter how desperately hard the migration dramatists try to plug the term "open borders".

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120567265#Comment_120567265

Her local school would probably close to low numbers if it was just 4. The benefits of immigration.

creeper1

Even if the Muppet succeeds in getting that 500 off the street then there would be another 500 arriving to take their place in a week or two.

There simply has to be a stop to this free for all open borders insanity or a way to stem the flow.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120567214#Comment_120567214

But who is actually disagreeing with you that Europe can't take everyone ? The status quo of our laws and systems right now is that we don't take everyone. The fact that people always seem to pull out the Australian model as some exemplar of the failures of decadent border policy in Europe seem to conveniently forget that Australia has as almost as many immigrants as France despite having a significantly lower population than France — and is also an isolated (from both the rest of the first world and generally geographically) and financially / logistically difficult place to get to for migrants and certainly refugees. Simply put, it's harder for a relatively poor person to make it to Australisa.

You also seem to have a fairly rose-tinted view of how Irish emigrants got by historically. Many of them ended up in crime and gangsterism (it's called the 'Irish' mob for a reason) and certainly did not follow the rules of their host countries. They were originally seen as a dirty, stupid, workshy drunks and — as for your great solution that all it takes is for poor and wartorn countries to get their **** together — we would have been in a right worse pickle if there hadn't been an escape valve for our own humanitarian crisis and millions more would have died. It's only with the benefit of 170 odd years of hindsight that we talk about how much the Irish eventually contributed to America — and yet some on here barely give refugees a minute before writing them off as the horsemen of the Western apocalypse.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/secret-memo-warns-of-1bn-hit-to-tourism-spend-as-refugee-crisis-heaps-pressure-on-hotel-space/a1592426066.html

I must say I’m gobsmacked. I’d been led to believe all the new entrants would be a boon to our economy?

Feck all these people that will lose their livelihoods anyway - the new arrivals deserve more

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569270#Comment_120569270

Who led you to believe this?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568501#Comment_120568501

Logical stuff, not!

Even if a school had 4 pupils in each class, the school would remain open.

Sure let's pack them in like sardines instead.

We'll also continue with chronic over crowding in schools and a chronic shortage of teachers because they cannot now afford to work and live in towns and cities in this country because you guessed it, OVERPOPULATION!

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569514#Comment_120569514

How many times have you heard '' they will pay our pension, if we are ill look after our medical care , remember how it was in the past before immigration '' .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568645#Comment_120568645

You miss the point.

Regardless of how former Irish emigrants managed to survive. Either through hard work or crime. They were NOT given free acccommodation food heathcate etc etc

They also managed to assimilate into their host countries. Rather than clinging to their own sometimes medieval set of values which discriminate against women amongst others.

The UN needs to setup camps in these countries to give a decent standard of living.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568608#Comment_120568608

On the plus side. Word seems to have got out that Ireland isn't handing out gaffs. Arrivals down 50 percent. Let's hope that continues

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569967#Comment_120569967

No thats not logical. A school with 4 pupils in each class wouldnt stay open.

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563538#Comment_120563538

FYI Denmark has put the brakes on non legal immigration specifically to preserve social cohesion.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570139#Comment_120570139

How do you know that to be a fact.

Have you links to similar situations where schools have closed?

Or maybe you have other reasons for your statement of fact?

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570447#Comment_120570447

The jist of his post is immigration keeps schools open how wonderful but many classes are overcrowded .

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570079#Comment_120570079

Yeah but you also seem to be missing the point that those were literally Victorian times. I'm taking it as a safe assumption that you don't think refugees should be treated to squalor and mistreatment.

The Irish didn't necessarily assimilate straight away either, and their arrival didn't exactly go down peaceably. First of all, they were Catholics and seen as religiously and culturally distinct from Protestants (not to mention potentially seditious due to their perceived allegiance to Rome). The Irish Catholic immigrants were certainly not seen with the same admiration as the Protestant Scotch-Irish who were viewed as industrious, high quality people who had helped to expand the Frontier (not to mention that culturally the nativists saw America as being the refuge of puritanical Christianity from decadent Catholicism). There were huge tensions between Irish Catholic migrants and the so-called 'native' population, which frequently flared into brutal violence (like the Philadelphia Bible Riots of 1844). Some Irish soldiers even deserted the US army and fought alongside the Mexican Army in the Mexican-American War (the 'San Patricios' as they were known). Even in Boston, the city most synonymous with the eventual rise of the Irish diaspora to prominence, historians describe the Irish population as for a long time "a massive lump in the community, undigested, indigestible".

The Irish Catholics did not, in some great sweeping move, collectively set aside their religious beliefs or culture even though it was seen as totally incompatible to what Nativist Americans saw as being everything that America stood for. So I'd put it to you again that you have a rose tinted view of the "assimilation" of the Irish in America.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570032#Comment_120570032

I never hear it apart from as some racist gotcha.

Never not even once have I heard a person with anything resembling honesty say that refugees are going to all be doctors or whatever.

Which is why I am asking who led that poster to believe this. Can they cite one example maybe of a TD or top public servant saying this.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568501#Comment_120568501

Now that's an interesting way to look at it alright! You make it sound like a lucky benefit and job creation scheme!

Also, what supports are there/needed for this class? Basic English tuition? SNAs for kids finding the adjustment harder than others?

Have these been resourced? Who loses out by reallocating the resources? (because we know there's not enough SNAs as it is in most schools). What effect on the 4 kids if the entire class has to slow to cover the basics such as language skills?

These are all fair questions that I'm sure the parents of the 4 are wondering about.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569514#Comment_120569514

Statements to that effect have been made umpteen times throughout the thread, by the same usual suspects you’ll see on the thread every day

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570546#Comment_120570546

What sticks in my my mind is a TD who said Irish people should have sorted out their housing . The ethos housing is based on need and not citizenship .

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570826#Comment_120570826

So you can give me just a single example easily then right?

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571209#Comment_120571209

Your niece is going to the school that your wife is on the board of management of.

And a teacher from that school that discussed information about nationality of students with a civilian member of the board of management?

And you led this story on boards by saying your nieces class.

👆🤣🤣🤣

I don't believe this story.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120168350#Comment_120168350

@RobbieTheRobber

Here you go, refugees apparently “extremely beneficial” to the Irish economy - only took me getting to page 2 out of 152…there are many more examples in the thread like I was referring to earlier. The search function on boards is too crap so if you want other examples you can trawl through it all yourself

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570236#Comment_120570236

Denmarks loss could be Ireland's gain, well Ireland's refugee industry gain!

Montage of Feck

Again the debate on RTE isn't addressing the issue, the official line is we aren't doing enough more housing and supports needed. Just insane, you can nearly see steam coming out the ears of some of the audience speakers.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/05/09/hotel-bed-shortages-due-to-impact-of-migrants-costing-10000-tourism-jobs-analysis-finds/

Job losses in tourism sector up to ten thousand now with all the capacity that’s been given over to refugees.

Wonder what will be the knock on effect for those towns and communities that rely on tourism

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573125#Comment_120573125

Almost like posters have been saying this in here for a year. The knock on effects of their incompetence will be profound for many up and down the country

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571930#Comment_120571930

That's not even close.

There is a poster or posters who have been led to believe that refugees will all be doctors, engineers etc.

I am wondering by who or how they have been led to believe this. And if possible to cite a source for this claim.

You have provided another post by a boards poster which while being vaguely on your same subject area has nothing to do with what I am posting about.

I doubt very much that anyone believed anything they didn't already before reading that post.

So this common racist trope of people being led to believe refugees would all be <insert preferred profession>,who led you to believe this if that is what you believe?

baldbear

Anyone listening to Pat Kenny? Lots of tents outside the international protection offices i think.

One lad from South Africa who a gang wanted him to join and another lad from Zimbabwe who says he is gay.

It's obvious Pat is not impressed. He basically said why are they coming to Ireland?

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573125#Comment_120573125

Sod these towns and their locals. If they are really lucky some so called journalist from the Indo or the Irish times will get travel allowance to call to the likes of clones, lisdoonvarna, portmagee etc.

There'll they'll interview the new diversity officer who'll tell us how wonderful it all is n that more funding is required.

Said journalist will hotfoot it back to their leafy suburbs in south Dublin grateful that high property prices will keep their area from turning out the same.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120572749#Comment_120572749

2 questions allowed from the audience, one saying more needs to be done for direct provision, another saying a taoiseach in the future could be from Ukraine.

I take it these two were just normal joe public n not employed in the refugee industry. They'd have said if they were- wouldn't they!!

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573404#Comment_120573404

Has Pat Kenny been living under a rock for the past x no. of years, or was he just being sarcastic ? Why, he asks, are they coming to Ireland ? 99.99% of these migrants are not refugees (that's a badge of convenience) they are economic migrants. The word is out for a long time now that Ireland is a soft touch. The Nigerians call Ireland 'treasure Ireland for a reason !) Illegal migrants are coming here for our over generous welfare system, free housing, free education, free medical etc. etc. being aided and abetted by civil & public servants and other NGO all financed by our taxes.

Also the fact that's it's almost impossible to be deported and if, in the unlikely event that deportation is attempted, free legal aid is available with access to the best barristers, solicitors etc. up to the highest court in the land with options to go to the ECJ. All this of course takes years and years and millions of Euro.

England is gradually closing the door on illegal migrants so more and more are heading our way, many can speak some english so we're the next port of call. Hundreds of illegal migrants are turning up at Dublin airport's immigration office without any form of ID having deliberately destroyed their passports and all other forms of ID Why ? what serious crimes have they committed elsewhere, will they re offend ?? - yet they are allowed to roam the streets as if they were citizens. This would not be tolerated in any other civilized country, yet some are being discreetly encouraged to pitch their tents outside the international protection offices by civil servants to put pressure on other government departments.

baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573682#Comment_120573682

Racist. Only joking. I work with Nigerians and they are good people. The treasure Ireland thing has been around for a while I think it came from our medicine costs and the pharma Industry.

Is their any political party that isn't racist but talks sense when it comes to immigration? Or are they all afraid to be labelled racist.

I hate the slogans "Ireland isn't full" or "Ireland is full" or all refugees welcome. Such foolish talk. We can't support economic migrants claiming asylum. But the word is long out.

Bring back Michael McDowell.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570139#Comment_120570139

Of course it would! That would be 32 pupils and can stay open. By experience, I worked in a school that had 18 pupils and to me, out of any school I taught in the children got the most 1-1 attention I have ever seen. Maybe limited in other areas but pupils in classrooms of 35+ pupils, especially at the Junior classes are lost. We have one in our school and it's an utter utter disgrace and a serioud accident waiting to happen.

Montage of Feck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573762#Comment_120573762

Young me would be so utterly disgusted at current me liking a comment wanting to bring back MMcD. I want to cry now.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573762#Comment_120573762

Bring back Michael McDowell the man who was Attorney General and ok'd the text for the good friday agreement constitution change that so many lament on boards.

Eh Ok!

Geuze

I don't agree with zero refugees, but I think we have accepted too many.

I suggest 1% of pop, so a max of 50,000.

All bogus AS to be deported within 1 week of arrival.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120574018#Comment_120574018

Relevance to this thread is what exactly?

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573404#Comment_120573404

Why are they never asked this question?, is there nowhere else in the whole continent of Africa you could find safety?, why a small island on the west of Europe?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120574069#Comment_120574069

As my friend an RTE employee said to me: "you can't ask that".

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120574057#Comment_120574057

The relevance is I was replying to a comment in this thread about the person named and in relation to his actions as Attorney general and the impact on refuges fleeing here in the past.

Do you know what constitutional change I am referring to in my comment, and do you not understand the relevance?

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120574079#Comment_120574079

Highly unlikely scenario

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573404#Comment_120573404

The way things are going and are in Ireland, there'll be plenty of gangs to join in Ireland soon. Take your pick!

I had this discussion with someone recently and we are very much doubting that Ireland's population is just over 5 million in 2023. We think it is very much higher than that. Would love to see a genuine head count and census done.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570487#Comment_120570487

I really don't understand the "but the Irish emigrated" so-called argument.

So what?

Some Irish people immigrating has no bearing on what this country does or does not do with immigrants. We don't owe some kind of blood debt because of the navvies that built the British motorways, or the J1 students that party in Los Angeles. This argument somehow implies that the Irish are some kind of homogonous entity, like an ant colony, that is responsible for every action of each of its people, and has to keep track of every favour owed to pass on.

Imagine the reaction of the same people making this argument if it was argued that we shouldn't take any Muslims because some Muslims attacked the Twin Towers, or we shouldn't take any Turks because of that nasty business with the Armenians, yet these are the same premise.

It is a nonsensical figleaf used by open border fanatics to shore up the utter absurdity of their position.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120574096#Comment_120574096

100% true.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120574720#Comment_120574720

See, this is the problem on this thread. Straight into the melodramatics. Blood debt? What?

Firstly, I was responding to another poster who was talking about the way Irish emigrants apparently integrated and assimilated nicely. I didn't bring the point up.

Secondly, where on earth did I say anything about Ireland owing anyone anything purely because of its own history of emigration? My post centred purely around the fact that the Irish did not historically assimilate perfectly into the fabric of American society, nor did Irish migrants abandon their own ways and customs in deference to the "native" Americans.

I fail to see any good reason for finding it invalid to draw historical examples of the Irish in America as a case study of how an emigrant community develops within a host foreign society. But for whatever reason it really seems to ruffle a few feathers on this thread.

Varik

Most of us are descendants of the Irish who didn't emigrate anywhere, hence why we're here.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573682#Comment_120573682

How are England closing their doors to illegal migrants? That's absolutely impossible. And once they enter the UK, they have access to Ireland via NI.

baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120575328#Comment_120575328

I think they are using Ireland as a way to get residency (will take years, but they will get it) then they will head freely anywhere they want in Europe.

Patrick2010

Nothing is going to change as there is no will to change the current immigration situation. O Gorman advertised On Twitter that Ireland is a place you can come to if you need your own door accommodation so no surprise how many have arrived .

Coveney wants to double our population, McEntee likes amnesties to encourage immigrants to stay long enough and they’ll eventually be citizens.

The media are onside with this so you won’t get any dissenting voices there ,just parrot that we need to be more compassionate, remember our history etc etc

We can build all the houses we like but the likes of the Irish refugee council will look for them to be used for refugees and will take high court cases to enforce this, look at the fact that there are at last count 87 cases working their way through the courts to force the government to find accommodation.

These NGOs are using our money to bring cases to force us to provide accommodation immediately for anyone who turns up in Dublin