Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122414997#Comment_122414997

Perhaps said citizens should identify and consider where their problems and issues stem from and, attack or work on those, rather than tilting at windmills by taking out their frustrations on people who have nothing to do with those causes. Housing shortage for example. While technically exacerbated by every additional person who needs accommodation, not caused by them.

The reason that a section of population have become so enraged at the immigrants is because of the results of those issues. Grifters have pounced upon that discontent to stir it up for their own benefit. It actually makes it more difficult then to solve the immigration issue.

The State has to process these people. They just need to do it more quickly and efficiently and then get rid of the ones that don't get accepted.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415042#Comment_122415042

Instead of focusing on the outcome, instead look at the causes.. Number 1 in this instance is the Department of Integration's failure to engage with local communities in these areas, isolate those on the fringes from the majority of peaceful protestors who are genuinely concerned with the issues at hand.

Once the "Grifters" are out of the picture then they can go back to terrorising their own housing estates, dealing drugs, causing anti-social behaviour etc. then you don't have to worry about them again eh?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415084#Comment_122415084

"Engage with the local communities" or "never consulted the local community" is a load of waffle. Do you think the Department is just failing to identify all those other communities around the country that are crying out for asylum seekers to put in the ready-to-go accommodation facilities beside them?

The grifters are not necessarily living in those communities by the way. They are just happy to manipulate and use the great unwashed to their own end.

"Here boys, some foreigners are getting moved into some location and people are giving out. Let's head into that area and see if we can kick off a riot. With a bit of luck we might be able to fulfill our patriotic duty by finding a local shoeshop and breaking in to get new runners during the chaos."

silverharp

was a big planning scheme refused in 2019 that looked pretty good? I mean building houses in a housing crises is crazy innit? instead we get this shtshow

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415120#Comment_122415120

"Barstool" grasp of the situation I see, won't be engaging in that any further thanks.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122414664#Comment_122414664

Mr Ó Laoghaire said the party are outlining what they believe will work, which includes tripling the resources of the international protection office and the appeals tribunal.

Tripling spending on asylum isn't the way.

emo72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122414265#Comment_122414265

Mate, that's whataboutery on steroids.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415160#Comment_122415160

That's fine. Stick with the views and insights of the tracksuited intellectuals wearing balaclavas if you wish. You are free to do so

Dogsdodogsstuff

I feel in the middle on this, but do believe that a huge mistake governments seem to be making is by railroading local communities into accepting certain things without consultation. And I don’t just mean having a local discussion about it, I mean having a national discussion about what should be Ireland’s position on this.

On one hand, I am sympathetic to refugees. Saw a young family outside the D hotel in drogheda and had instant empathy/sympathy for what they must be going through. I also think the violence that we are seeing against them is cowardly, pathetic and not being done in the name of local residents or Irish people. Sounds like a lot of these angry men are lost souls who now have a common cause and they are only too happy to have something to make their lives somewhat meaningful , which in itself is tragic.

On the other hand, when there is such a huge housing crisis and for some reason the governments don’t appear to have any progressive way of handling this , people are rightly angry about it which is increasing xenophobia.

It sort of feels like democracy as we know it is beginning to break down around the world. Partially out of apathy to politics , leaving us with bland, uninspiring career politicians whose primary goal is to stay in power and sort of maintain the dysfunctional status quo. There is alot wrong with how our country is being run and the wastage that goes unchecked.

What we are seeing is decades of frustration coming out and I think it’s only going to get more chaotic as our central leaning parties try to “carry on as normal”. Eventually we will end up with a La Pen situation where a far right piece of sh*t comes on the scene , learns to hide the worst part of their beliefs and convinces the apathetic and raging masses that revolutionary change will make their lives better. It’s coming.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122414867#Comment_122414867

Yep, Sinn Fein have totally failed to understand the problem and public opinion.

emo72

SF saying areas to be audited to see if it can take refugees. Well, that solves everything. There will be NO more immigration then. Everywhere is under funded, under stress, basically hanging on. SF are ducking idiots.

sekiro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122414279#Comment_122414279

While this is obviously true it makes no sense to import hundreds, maybe even thousands, of the same from overseas.

As you say, we've already got far too many unemployed lads who already cause far more than their fair share of problems. So why would anyone think it's a good idea to bring in even more of the same?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415084#Comment_122415084

The department is not "engaging" by choice because they know these centres are deeply deeply unpopular. The strategy has thus far been to keep communities in the dark as long as possible, basically until the last possible moment so that opposition can't form.

A fine example of this strategy in operation is that the government have identified 30 potential sites across the country but have not even said which towns they are, let alone the actual buildings. There is no reason not to identify the towns if there was a real belief in real engagement.

No one wants these centres in their community mainly I suspect because they are of a scale where they will transform the community (Even the coolock site, a large area, would be 2% of the population there).

The whole crisis over this is really surprising. Irish governments are generally good at giving people what they want and usually only say "No" when there is no money. This is unique at least in my memory because the State is forcing this when it's not driven by the exchequer. It makes me wonder what the unsaid real motivation is.

I know AS frequently end up in low paying jobs, like retail, once they've done the six months, so is it driven by a need for this kind of labour which is in short supply currently? Partially maybe?

I think it's more about the rules based international system though. I think the fear is that if Ireland doesn't demonstrate a full throated adherence to the international system and say starts to opt out on migration, then it will attract attention on Ireland where the system works in its favour. Ireland has form in this - it rowed behind all the policies the EU had for the last 15 years so no one might look at taxation policy. They came for it anyway though.

prunudo

Over recent years we have come to accept FF and FG are the same, now it appears over recent months we can throw SF in the pot too.

The only way to win back public support for immigration policy is to rip up the current plan and start again with proper controls and regulations, weed out the scammers. But Harris isn't a leader and would rather get photo ops eating ice cream and drinking lemonade.

People can jump up and down, and throw slurs at the nationalist candidates, but as long as main stream politicians and media keep refusing to listen to communities while continuing to believe their own bs, these right wing parties and candidates will grow.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415263#Comment_122415263

A carefully considered opinion, refreshing!

It's definitely down to an international system, every country in the E.U is having the same problems.

In Germany for instance they have gone from openly welcoming refugees with flowers and chocolates to the Govt. actively wanting to halt immigration into the E.U completely. Yet 100's of men paying smugglers €6000++ arrive daily into Berlin with the hope of a great new life…

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415272#Comment_122415272

The big difference for me between FFG and SF is that SF have actually met with the local community in coolock and listened to their concerns.

SF have then today come out with an idea of auditing locations marked for IPA centres. Nothing overly radical in any of what they are doing or saying

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0723/1461313-sinn-fein-immigration/

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415230#Comment_122415230

Well there is a chance that we could potentially "get rid" of a lot of the imported ones if there was a proper system in place. It has to be undoubtedly more difficult to get that system in place when resources have to be allocated to deal with protests and vandalism. The powers that be have messed up for years but they have to start from where we are now.

You see, there isn't an illuminati "bringing them in" either.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415361#Comment_122415361

They haven't said who they met with though. Politicians love a photo op so where's the pic of Mary Lou meeting the concerned citizens? They've already nailed their colours to the mast in support of the government on this issue.

To me it just seems to be a case of "look at us, we're not as bad as FFG" but in reality, they are!

jay1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415272#Comment_122415272

Which nationalist candidates would these be? Please tell me that the like of the national party or the likes aren't now being described as nationalist.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415372#Comment_122415372

Well now haven't you got the wrong end of the chicken/egg debate ?

There would be no need for any dealing with protests if the Minister for fck all - O'Gorman - and his ilk hadn't dismissed genuine concern for communities.

FYI he amount of money spent policing protests is a tiny tiny fraction of the amount spent on accommodating these chancers. You can dismiss the concerned citzenry and locals as "tracksuited idiots" but you're talking about villages of less than 500 people being told 1,000 people from God knows where are being bussed in at night with no consultation.

This "audit of services" might help but lets face it they will do it anyway regardless of the result.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415389#Comment_122415389

Yeah maybe they never met with the community and maybe made the whole thing up. I'd imagine there would be uproar in said communities with "I never met them" being chanted if that was the case though

Considering MLMD wants better engagement from the govt and came up with the logical step of auditing the viability of IPA centres it would be a fairly easy stick to beat them with if they lied about a community engagement

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415420#Comment_122415420

The level of engagement with local communities for these IPAS centres could best be described a box ticking exercise..

And you're right, I'd like to see what the Policing budget has been for the past two weeks at the site and see how that compares to the yearly budget for the entire area.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415420#Comment_122415420

It's very easy to nominate places that shouldn't have to have any of these lads. Your difficulty is going to be identifying the places that should. The people aren't going to disappear into a puff of smoke every time a building they might have been put into is targeted and destroyed.

As for an "audit" - are you also living in the dreamworld that there are plenty of other communities that are dying to have IP applicants housed in the ready available facilities besides them?

For all the giving out about the housing shortage, if people keep stopping larger locations from being used to house them all together, you will end up with them being housed individually in a mishmash of locations. Which will inevitable prolong their processing even more. Is your ulterior motive really for them to get "own door accommodation" on arrival? Because that is the outcome if people protest enough at larger places. I'd far rather see 500 of them being put into beds in a converted warehouse while they are being processed than 500 1-bed apartments being bought for them!

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415472#Comment_122415472

It was the SF suggestion of an "audit". Not mine, dear.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415434#Comment_122415434

Logical step indeed. You would think such a step would go without saying long before any large number of people were to be brought into an area. I'm not saying she didn't speak to anyone at all, maybe she did, maybe she met with some in agreement with, or not completely against it. Something tells me it wasn't the "far-righters" in the communities that she met with.

FYI there are community groups saying just that, that it wasn't them she met with.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415536#Comment_122415536

You did put forward your opinion that it "might help"

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415434#Comment_122415434

It's not clear who you are referring to but the main groups in Coolock have said they've not met with MLMD or SF.

The departments "engagement" consists of a glorified information evening for public representatives of said area. It's been made clear that the officials are there to communicate plans, not to solicit feedback or make changes based on public representation. Certainly not stop.

In other words "this is happening, deal with it".

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122414133#Comment_122414133

But they don't get paid f**k all. Junior doctors are getting 70, 80k with overtime.

I was responding to someone saying Irish doctors can't afford to live here, that is absolute nonsense.

giseva

Must be losing our doctors for some other reason then. And what about the nurses, doubt they're on such salaries, though I'd imagine they have the same bills as the rest of us. How do we keep them instead of a conveyor belt of Irish out, X in?

Wouldn't be a massive fan of the journal, interesting nonetheless!

https://www.thejournal.ie/junior-doctors-accommodation-6293174-Feb2024/

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415541#Comment_122415541

It’s utter nonsense.

Anyone who knows anything about planning system would tell you that.

There will be precisely zero centres converted in the medium term if such a system came into being.

As someone pointed out above, this really won’t help the flows of refugees here as the government will just continue to look for housing to put them in in isolation.

This is a pretty brutal policy “pivot” by SF. It strikes me as short termism as they want to continue to play both sides of aisle. They are winning few votes back with this.