Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419239#Comment_122419239

You would need to elaborate on what you understanding of "secure detention centre" means to you. Because under international Human Right's law - which Ireland is signed up to - we cannot just arbitrarily lock up and detain each and every AS any more than the State could arbitrarily lock up and detain random citizens. That's not something that can be changed without leaving those agreements in their entirety.

Tourmaline24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419174#Comment_122419174

It's not "faux concern". I don't care about the owners of the D hotel who will pocket €13m a year of taxpayers' money. It's the knock-on effects, the loss of footfall for the shopping centre next door and other businesses, as noted in a recent report which estimated the direct loss at €6m.

The asylum seekers (who we know are not genuine, let's be honest) don't contribute to the local economy. They will consume massive resources and give very little back to a town which already cannot provide enough jobs, accommodation and services for its people. Again, I find the bad faith assumptions hard to take. What's "faux" about not wanting your home to become unrecognisable to you while you see your tax money being spent on an endless influx of strangers from every corner of the globe? It is the reaction of posters like you which is "faux" and contrary to normal anthropological behaviour of in-group preference and prioritising one's own family and community and country.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419266#Comment_122419266

That's fine. You don't want them in your town regardless. I have no problem with you having your opinion or similar ones. I've already stated that. The difference between you and other posters is that you are not trying to pretend that it is because of the "local tourist economy". They are the ones bringing faux concerns.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419209#Comment_122419209

Pretty sure this has been asked before, but do you think the thousands of AS, genuine or otherwise, already here and those making their way here, are going to make strides in the area of cancer research or ground breaking technological developments?

Rail roading AS into areas with their own issues already only gives said scum a voice. I feel I'm on a roundabout.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419108#Comment_122419108

This is the best post I've seen on this thread in quite a while and sums up the situation as it is now.

Each day we seem to be spiralling into more dysfunction and small protests in North Dublin are getting broadcast internationally making Ireland look "Racist" or "Violent" and allowing opportunists like Tommy Robinson to jump in and fill the voids our out of touch left wing politicians are leaving.

I'd ignore the Barstool posts you see on here, don't give it oxygen.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419262#Comment_122419262

Oh, if only we had a government who could draught such emergency legislation in the interest of our country.

I think you agree that there's a major issue with the numbers coming in, and what's being done with them. What's your view on the best course of action for this country?

Tourmaline24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419273#Comment_122419273

It's both. The local economy has been undeniably hurt and the local community suffers a strain on services, healthcare and housing as well as a lessening of their safety and wellbeing. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. Drogheda and its surrounding areas have had a longer history of this than most, with Mosney holiday camp being converted to direct provision in 1999, generating vast wealth for its owners while draining huge resources from nearby communities.

I won't engage with you any more as I think you're trying to goad and provoke.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419358#Comment_122419358

The answer to your first sentence is already in the post you quoted - Ireland is already signed up to International Human Rights Law which would prevent an arbitrary blanket detaining of all AS.

I already said my view - they need to be processed as quickly as possible. That likely means proper reception centres being set up and an army of pen-pushers processing the applications and then deporting the failed ones as soon as possible. There is no problem with setting up reception centres per se, you just can't arbitrarily lock people up 24/7 in them.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419412#Comment_122419412

Forever? As in, should this processing continue indefinitely? Is there a number where Ireland says, thanks but that's enough now?

Because nothing you've suggested stems the flow in my opinion.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419412#Comment_122419412

Deport them to where? Many have no documentation I'm told.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419427#Comment_122419427

Nothing stems the flow unless you want to say "no more asylum seekers ever again. No matter how genuine". And if, say, a famous Russian dissident escaped a prison there and made his way to Ireland, we would send him back, knowing he would be executed on the tarmac upon arrival. We either have a system for it or we don't. You can't have a system where "only genuine applicants are allowed to apply" because genuine or not can only be determined after the application is made.

Think of disability benefit. We have that for a reason. There are genuinely many people on that who need it and struggle on it. And then we have people in their early 20's on it who are on it for lactose intolerance (not wanting to put too much light on a fella that ended up killing himself). Loads more on it for questionable sore backs. One solution to cutting down on the chancers is to have better processing in place. Another is just to eliminate disability benefit for everyone. But if you do the latter, you make the genuinely disabled people's position even worse. So do you want to keep processing applications forever - or do you want to cut off all the genuine ones?

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418989#Comment_122418989

What if it's both reasons amongst other reasons? What if the reasons are why they don't want the people there.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419436#Comment_122419436

Where are you are going to deport them after the gurriers burn them out in the other model where you don't process them?

You see, technically, while going though the asylum process, they are allowed to stay here. It is not illegal for them to be here. Once they are denied, then their status becomes illegal. They could, at that stage, be charged under immigration laws and locked up. Some might suddenly remember where they came from when it is a choice between proper detention and going home.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419471#Comment_122419471

Well if you have a reason, or multiple reasons, then just say that. There is no need to pretend it is another reason.

If the State wants to build a reception centre down the road and I suddenly become concerned that a particular type of snail might live in that field, it's probably safe to say that I just don't want those people to be near me rather than trying to pretend that I actually have a sudden mission in life to save the snail.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419412#Comment_122419412

But processing ASAP just means they stay here and it frees up more places for the next 40k to arrive. We can't take more people.

What we need is to stop recognising those international laws. They will bring this country to it's knees.

giseva

So forever then. So we take on the world, or far more than we can or should.

Would that make us an IPC, International Protection Country?

What does that look like in 1, 2 or 300 years from now for Ireland?. A thriving nation, or a sewer for every countries unwanted and scammers to suck dry whatever resources are left?

Maybe the "Irish" will be seeking asylum themselves then wha!

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419491#Comment_122419491

So you're talking about Drogheda here?

1. Shutting down biggest hotel

2. Economic damage from said hotel

3. Tourism damaged

4. The town already feeling less safe before this

5. Schools are full

6. medical services under pressure

There's a million reasons you can link but they mostly fall under economics and social issues.

You could list not wanting to end up with the issues Denmark, Scandinavia, Germany, UK, France etc are experiencing as a reason.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419266#Comment_122419266

"The asylum seekers (who we know are not genuine, let's be honest)"

"I find the bad faith assumptions hard to take"

Absolutely remarkable.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419476#Comment_122419476

Is it not illegal to enter this country without documentation? Laws, rules, regulations, processes etc only work when people are working in good faith, as you pointed out regarding those scamming disability in this country.

Around we go.

I don't have a concrete answer or solution, but I'm pretty sure the continuous intake of AS into this country which it clearly cannot handle, and actually advertising Ireland to them in the first place, is definitely not the answer.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419492#Comment_122419492

Well your last sentence is a "Nigel Farage" "Leave the ECHR" type of rhetoric.

Many of their own citizens - including an awful lot from Northern Ireland during the troubles (The case of the Hooded Men for example) had to resort to the ECHR after their own courts failed them. In Ireland, one example of a high profile case would have been David Norris who had to appeal to the ECHR to change laws pertaining to the criminality of homosexual acts after the Irish courts upheld them.

So you have to be careful what you wish for.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419538#Comment_122419538

It is illegal to enter without documentation except that is is not illegal to enter on false or no documentation if you do so for the purpose of seeking asylum and you present yourself as such.

Why does such a loophole exist? Well a person genuinely fleeing for their life might have to be spirited out of their own country using false documentation for example. Or if fleeing for ones life from a war situation, they might not have been able to wait around to have their passport application processed by the local bombed out office. Do you remember the case of your man Kashoggi who went to the Saudi Embassy (in Turkey I think) to get some documents and he was never seen again. Assumed to have been killed and dismembered and brought back to Saudi in diplomatic suitcases.

Now, am I saying that all these lads have genuine reasons for having no documentation - far from it. I am only telling you why the exception exists. You can do away with it if you like, but then you remove it for the actual genuine person. Even if that is one-in-a-thousand.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419570#Comment_122419570

And surely the result is, somewhere down the line.....a significant percentage of the population are fake AS, descendants of fake AS, descendants of descendants of fake AS etc. With maybe some genuine cases thrown in to spice things up. Though on the flip side at least we'll have plenty of doctors and engineers.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419607#Comment_122419607

Same as how it is likely the case that many on disability benefit are not what an ordinary person would consider or assume to be disabled.

But does that mean we should just scrap it? Because that would be an easy solution to prevent fake applicants abusing it.

Tourmaline24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419517#Comment_122419517

I registered recently so can't post links. But most asylum seekers are from safe countries and most are refused. Nothing to do with good or bad faith, just cold hard facts, available anywhere. The communities with the longest history of direct provision starting in the late 90s are well aware of the pattern: application, multiple appeals, leave to remain, council housing, regular holidays back to the supposed war torn homeland. Many are people who integrate just fine and work etc but they are undeniable abusers of the system.

When I hear the phrases dutifully trotted out by NGOs about vulnerable people fleeing war etc, I'm reminded of that Orwell quote:

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

We're not a serious country.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419620#Comment_122419620

No need to scrap it. Steps are taken to catch disability cheats, videoing suspected cheats in the gym when they apparently can't walk for example. I'm sure catching those cheats comes at a cost, but it's for the greater good of this country.

How do you disprove an insane number of people arriving are actually in need of asylum, many of whom come with no documentation?

That seems a little hard so ye know what, just come in, we're a gullible bunch over here and we might do a bit of good cop/bad cop on ye but, irrelevant of the outcome, welcome to Ireland. That's Jono in the North Face tracksuit, he doesn't like you because you live in the hotel his ma used to work in, sorry bud you're just going to have to deal with that!

That's hardly for the greater good of this country, speaking of that, does that matter at all? Certainly doesn't seem like it.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419695#Comment_122419695

Do you want to scrap Asylum in Ireland or do you want to keep accepting applications and processing them?

You either scrap it, or you allow applications which you then process. But scrapping it hurts genuine cases in the same way that scrapping disability would hurt genuine cases there.

Fotish

The Irish Times have an editorial on Sinn Féin’s new migrant policy , of course they cannot help letting their biases show and finish up with “But it is easy to foresee a situation where local Sinn Féin representatives can use the new policy as cover for blanket opposition to refugee accommodation anywhere in the country. That would be a useful, if cynical, defensive ploy against threats to the party from its right flank at the next election.”

Pathetic paper .

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419716#Comment_122419716

I would like the country to suspend applications so as to deal with the many issues the government have just exacerbated.

And after that, if we can help, where practical, then do so. Practical isn't importing a greater number of AS, all men, into a town than the number of residents in said town. Or planning on planting God knows how many into deprived areas.

Madness that such a discussion is even taking place. That's virtue signalling of the highest order, and pandering to the EU and NGOs and whoever else dumb enough to think the issues these people are "fleeing" don't come with them. That's self destruction.

If a million, or 5 million, or 15 asylum seekers are genuine cases, is that this countries problem?

If the same number aren't genuine that's surely a problem, but we'll take our chances.

You indicated that we should accept AS forever, ideally somehow deporting the scammers, but surely that changes the country, and from looking at our EU cousins, not for the better.

_Puma_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419035#Comment_122419035

IFAC "slammed" the government (really Roderic o'Gormans department) back in December for breaking every fiscal policy put in place to curtail spending in budget 2024 via "fiscal gimmekry".

In real terms, so far, it is 4.5 billion "increase" from the exchequer that is being money laundered into human trafficking industry hands in this state.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419893#Comment_122419893

I don't agree with much of what the US does, but were it the US, he'd be in prison. Not a bad thing.