Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122442855#Comment_122442855

VM missing a open goal here - They've been playing the softly softly pro-government approach on immigration for a long time, similar to RTE - Huge bailout given to RTE and f/all to VM. They were well pissed off about it - If I were them I'd be letting John McGuirk, Peadar Tóibín, Michael McDowell, Michael McNamara and Niall Boylan present the Tonight show on a rotating basis for the foreseeable future

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122442934#Comment_122442934

most asylum seekers go home on holidays to the place they are fleeing persecution from once their position is normalised. 

Do they? Can you provide anything to back that claim up with?

It does not sound practical so curious to know how you have these statistics.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443009#Comment_122443009

Yes, this is well known. Sure they often admit that.

Here is an example of a bogus AS doing exactly that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellie_Kisyombe

She travelled to Ireland on a student visa in 2010.[1] She then travelled to the United Kingdom to apply for asylum there. After being arrested there, she claimed asylum in Ireland.[3] She was placed in direct provision and was housed in the centre in Ballyhaunis, County Mayo. She was later diagnosed with depression. She has twin children, a son and a daughter, who joined her in Ireland.[4] In July 2019, she was granted leave to remain in Ireland[5] and subsequently took a trip back home to Malawi.[6]

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443176#Comment_122443176

That one single example from 14 years ago does not appear to backup the other posters claim.

"most asylum seekers go home on holidays to the place they are fleeing persecution from once their position is normalised"

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443629#Comment_122443629

You'll have no problem sharing some links verifying this 'well documented phenomenon' so?

Blazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122434081#Comment_122434081

at no point in time did I mention spending that money on housing the world's poor.

I'm making the point that we need to change it at the top than at the bottom.

Lets say we ban all asylum seekers coming into Ireland (its against EU law so we're screwed there but lets pretend that's not the case).

We still have massive shortages of housing, a wasteful public sector and politicians who are only in it for the money once they realize they can't affect real change unless they're part of the in power government.

The whole country is like a house of cards…and right at the bottom holding it up are two incredibly important pillars ( PAYE tax and CORP tax). If even one of these falls its game over. Especially Corp Tax as the impact on PAYE revenue will be catastrophic. The government makes signs that they're conscious of how flakey corp tax is but they do squat about it and are actually overspending above max requirements to buy the next election.

What we actually need is a re-imaging of how our tax money is spent. Stuff like giving RTE 750 million over 3 years is absolutely ridiculous considering that money is urgently needed elsewhere.

Signing open-ended contracts much like the BAM fiasco is farcical.

There is so much wrong in this country that to write it all out would take hours to list each point and see how we could fix it.

I pay a lot of tax in this country…I believe that its my duty to, but what I absolutely begrudge is how that money is wasted year on year.

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440918#Comment_122440918

So lets get this straight. One in every hundred asylum seekers who are refused asylum are deported. Bloody hell. What's the point in even having an immigration department?

They may as well let the whole continents of Asia and Africa into Ireland for all good the Irish asylum process is doing.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445220#Comment_122445220

With staff shortages in AGS and all the crime they have to deal with, I'd think it justifiably lower down the priority list to be deporting people no more likely to be involved in crime than anyone else.

Focusing on deporting people who've actually committed crime makes a lot more sense under the circumstances.

On top of that deportations are expensive and there's a lot already being spent on accommodation, especially with all the huge additional costs brought on by the bogus 'peaceful protestors'.

Quags

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445317#Comment_122445317

Surely your baiting here?

So because crime still happens, we just let those not allowed in the country to actually stay here cause well its not priority?

This image is the last 6 years of spending of on deportations. But look at the number of orders issues to the number actually deported. So dont come here telling people crime is an issue and understaffing when its all on the Gov and their policies

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445220#Comment_122445220

AFAIK, the vast majority of failed AS remain here, as they are given leave-to-remain.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445363#Comment_122445363

Some very high costs there in places but I still wouldn't think that an apt comparison.

By focusing on a deporting a small number of people who we deem a priority, I'd guess the cost to be much lower.

For a start I think it fair to assume that most deported to Gardai are those well known to them or already in custody. So they don't have to go tracking down a person who might have gone underground.

After that, at a smaller scale people can be put on commercial flights, so lower cost there.

But I'd think the biggest saving we currently see is that I'd imagine there's less push back from receiving states when dealing with smaller numbers. From how difficult we know it can be to affect large scale deportations, I'd assume it's a lot easier persuading a receiving state to accept 2-3 people than say a thousand.

This is all quite speculative but if we lock back to the McDowell days when deportations were a focus (including deporting Irish citizens!), costs were reported as being very high, and not that many deportations were actually completed.

Most of those who were actually deported at that time were to states about to join the EU, or to Nigeria, with whom we had an agreement at the time. I'd doubt that agreement is still in place given that Nigeria is now reported as a country reluctant to accept deportees.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122446561#Comment_122446561

You don't believe people who have been granted leave to remain sometimes travel back to their home country from which they were supposedly fleeing?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122446575#Comment_122446575

I'm sure they sometimes do and there's all sorts of valid reasons why it might be safe and worthwhile in some circumstances.

As for it being widespread that people pop back and forth and have 'bases' in other countries, I'll consider it when I see some, um you know, evidence.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122446752#Comment_122446752

Not sure if you're trolling or genuine. What evidence do you want? Photographs? Live airport interviews?

Will ye ever wake up. We're the welfare state of the globe and it's actually beyond a joke at this stage. Sure our children's allowance props up the economy of other countries ffs.

If you're a taxpayer, you're paying for it, you could at least acknowledge it.

The country is in a bad place. The foxes are well and truly in the chicken coop.

IMO we have been far too welcoming to asylum seekers and those masquerading as such, whether they're from Ukraine or Nigeria or elsewhere, it doesn't matter.

We're a dangleberry on the earth in terms of physical size and population yet we're providing safety to the globe. Even if every single person was genuine, which they're not, it's NOT sustainable, nor is it fair to burden Irish people without so much as a say so.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122446173#Comment_122446173

Yes, this is why I contend that close to 100% of the 140,000 AS over the last twenty years have made bogus claims.

I don't blame them (well I partly do, as they did submit a bogus claim).

I blame us, the soft fools, for believing them.

There is a part of Irish society that wants to accept bogus AS, even if the AS openly admits their claim is bogus.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445317#Comment_122445317

Staff shortages in health, education, policing and other public sector areas. Yet the population of the country has increased by nearly 20% from 2000 to the present. In 2000 the population was 3.8 million, today approximately 5.1 million.

And these are chronic staff shortages . . . In some areas of the public sector staff shortages are worse than where they were in 2007 (just before the economic crash).

This begs a number of questions:

1 - Are we as a country undergoing a rapid transformation in population whilst simultaneously believing that we don't have to increase numbers working in the public service (in schools, hospitals, etc)?

2 - Isn't one of the great attractions of immigration (according to the left) that we import skills from around the world? This is true in the health service (and always was pre-2000) but where is this happening elsewhere?

3 - Doesn't this suggest that the real reason for tensions over immigration is simply because successive governments (mainly FF/FG) refuse to invest in its people and that consequently failure to do so will only make matters much worse? This is completely evident in the housing crisis.

Geuze

Another example today:

https://x.com/courtsnewsIRL/status/1818352162230989128

Bogus AS coming into Ireland

Note how the Somali is going back to Somalia, another example of how bogus AS suddenly lose their fear of their origin, once they get refugee status.

giseva

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447252#Comment_122447252

Disgusting and doesn't even scratch the surface. Similar to the amount of drugs coming into this country, it's primarily coming in through our ports, which aren't policed any wear near enough. The appetite isn't there and the government can go on about the cost of checking every container just like the cost involved in doing follow up checks on every AS accepted here to see if they've miraculously gained an affinity for where they supposedly fled from.

The long term cost of failing to do either is far greater.

In a country who's government is failing its people in key areas and then telling them "put up and shut up" the two scenarios below make very little difference:

Fake AS comes here, claims asylum and gets help from the state from our taxes.

Real AS comes here, claims asylum and gets help from the state from our taxes.

We have Paddy working in the IP offices or for NGOs who laps up every sob story going. A justice minister handing out passports and citizenships like she's f#$king Oprah.

You speak up and you're far-right. You object to your towns population being dwarfed by a load of men from God knows where, you're far-right.

And the circus continues. I've said it before, help AS where practical. We're long past practical.

Everyone is laughing at us in the exploitation of our welfare systems and those who say otherwise are either in denial or are incredibly thick, or both.

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447349#Comment_122447349

You make it past the Irish border, ports and airports, you have a 99% chance of residence in Ireland for life regardless of who you are.

I see the population in the Republic going to 10 million in the next 10 years.

star61

The Government continues to ignore the children with scoliosis and the vast numbers of people on hospital waiting lists. Our hospitals are being run into the ground.
A 20% population increase but most do not contribute to the tax take. Basic services continue to decline. Increased debt, drop in GDP, record homelessness and child homelessness, sky rocketing rents and an economy dangerously reliant on a few companies. Providing free school books but class sizes increasing. Families working round the clock but still can’t afford a home. Our educated young people leaving the Country to try to put money together to be able to come back and buy a house. We can continue to accept an infinite number of Refugees/ Asylum seekers but we will not be able to continue with our generous welfare system indefinitely.

mistersifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447252#Comment_122447252

This is exactly what's happening in many cases. The new arrivals are not actually destroying their passports as is commonly thought (although this does happen). Rather they are giving their fraudulently obtained passports back to their traffickers who travel with them on the flight.

So it is existing "refugees" who are orchestrating the people trafficking in the knowledge that they probably won't be questioned in airports because they are EU citizens.

The more chancers that achieve refugee status, the bigger this issue will become and it's already huge.

ooter

One billion was spent on accommodating AS in Ireland last year, less than a tenth of that was spent on youth services in the same year, let that sink in.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447765#Comment_122447765

How much of that cost was due to people burning down accommodation, harassing workers and delaying projects with bogus peaceful protests?

Whatever percentage it was last year will be more in future, as firms factor these costs and disruptions into government contracts.

It would be great to move to state provided accommodation but I'd imagine that will be even more delayed now what with all the violent disruptions.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447765#Comment_122447765

It's shocking! If a tenth of that budget was spent on community policing and youth diversion projects it would have a massive benefit to Irish society instead of having to facilitate all and sundry coming here to "claim asylum"…

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447752#Comment_122447752

Have you anything to support this claim that 'this is exactly what's happening in many cases'?

From looking at the court reports, it would seem this guy was actually a genuine refugee who suffered serious abuse as a child, whatever crime he may have committed since.

Why do you people think it's ok to go around calling abused people bogus and chancers? It's really quite disgusting tbh.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/man-jailed-for-his-role-in-smuggling-a-woman-into-ireland-1656053.html

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447252#Comment_122447252

He didn't suddenly lose anything, it's well over 20 years since he received Danish citizenship.

You lot seem to think this is some big gotcha but really there's nothing whatsoever wrong with people going home to visit their family, where they feel it's now safe to do so.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447103#Comment_122447103

Yes there are staff shortages, and where there are a very limited number of Gardai available their use has to be prioritized.

Spending time tracking down IPAs who would likely otherwise live here peacefully and contribute has to be a lower priority than dealing with violent and sexual crime.

After that, are you really blaming 'the left' for the effects of globalization and neoliberal policies? I suggest you go check out some history books, maybe start with Thatcher, Reagan and Friedman.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122448033#Comment_122448033

Never blamed the left. I can blame the left for supporting massive inward migration whilst simultaneously knowing that the resources are not there to deal with that immigration.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122448096#Comment_122448096

where the left are to blame is abandoning their old working class base , the left think its hip or something or a cynical way to gain in elections though mental illness isnt a political view

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122448096#Comment_122448096

Far and away most of the migration here over the past decade has been from people coming here through visa or work permit schemes. While some accuse FFG of being left-leaning socially they're certainly 'right' in terms of these economic policies.

As for IPA migration, how are you linking the left with all the conflict and poverty in the Global South that drives people here? I think that needs explaining.