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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,605 ✭✭✭corkie


    Commission confirms Ireland's participation in the Pact on Migration and Asylum

    I didn't hear anymore about the court cases that where supposed to be heard this month, so assume they where unsuccesful in blocking it going to the EU?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    As you regularly ask others, can you provide a link for this? Admire your dedication to posting in this particular thread btw



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Sure, now nobody is tracking the IPA's who disappear from Danish deportation centres, but given they're not returning home I think it's fair to assume many are living elsewhere in Europe as per the case given here.

    https://unbiasthenews.org/living-in-fear-in-copenhagen-how-denmark-is-deliberately-infringing-on-the-rights-of-people-seeking-asylum/#:~:text=Between%202016%2D2019%2C%203%2C593%20rejected,the%20police%20as%20a%20result.

    Previous reports have shown how European countries introducing tougher asylum measures have led to increased numbers elsewhere in the union. I'll try track those down when I'm back to my pc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I'm not so sure we have a resource shortage problem here right now. I'd think it more accurate to see it as a longer term resource management problem.

    But I guess it's easier to blame a relatively small number of IPAs than to tackle skill shortages, the housing crisis and our dependence on corp tax.

    Something being feasible for Denmark to start a decade ago doesn't make it so for us now. Besides it's early days to say it's worked for Denmark, if the EU is damaged or destroyed by an approach they spearheaded, they'll be affected too. Not nearly as bad as us I'd but it still won't be good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭riddles


    just to refresh how bonkers the whole discussion and direction this topic on immigration has developed. In December 2019, Ireland committed to welcoming up to 2,900 refugees from 2020 to 2023. From Syria. These were the governments projection on the numbers we could conceivably take in a sustainable managed way.

    We could be getting that number a week now as no one knows how many people are entering - add in a few 100k Ukrainians and EU citizens who are migrating here like Eastern Europe and South Americans with EU passports. To suggest we don’t have a resource problem mmmm I’m not so sure.

    Most of these undocumented migrants face an uphill battle to ever achieve financial independence at least in a legal sense.

    We are moving to 5-1 tax payer ratio to 2 - 1 in less than 20 years. FDI could be starting to decline, in Tech we are seeing preferential headcount placement in low cost countries at the expense of mid to high cost locations.

    We are in a crisis situation and there should be a team designated to handle this ideally at an EU level but definitely in a local context setting out a plan and returning people who are clearly migrating illegally - going it alone as the Danes have is laudable for them in terms of action but not really the approach that will create a solution.


    The limp wristed Harris government has not and will not do anything substantive on any single topic beyond waffle and spin.

    The leadership deficit on this topic is creating a vacuum which ends up creating the fractured situations we are seeing emerge.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    It is impossible to board an aircraft without the travel documents.

    If a person doesn't have them at disembarkation, then the only logical conclusion is that they themselves discarded them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,565 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    The RTE decision alone shows that Harris & Co will do nothing until after the next election. They will not rock the boat in any way.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I've never heard of any Irish people claiming asylum, ever.

    Irish emigrants have generally been legal immigrants, apart from the 35-50k in USA who overstayed their visa.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,000 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Students not being able to take up University places because of a lack of acommodation and you are not sure we have a resource shortage problem? Come on. Please get real.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,054 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    @Juran threadbanned



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,054 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,971 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Crossing multiple borders without a passport and or a Visa or means to support yourself to come to Ireland for economic reasons and then use the asylum system to bypass the normal immigration system, is that what you support??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    yes, you did say that.

    Are you backtracking?

    So is it accurate to say you no longer believe that private airlines and ferries should allow passengers to board without passports if the passengers say they want to go to Ireland for asylum?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    Here is one of the posts where you argued that anyone should be able to show up to airports or ferry ports around the world, state they wish to claim asylum in Ireland, and then be permitted to travel to Ireland without documents.

    Let it never be forgotten 😂

    Do you want Roderic to tweet this new rule in 12 languages too just to make sure the world knows about this new masterplan of yours?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    72% of Irish want very strict limits on the number of immigrants coming to live in Ireland”

    We're not a small echo chamber here lads the country has simply had enough.

    There needs to be a referendum on this. The government are betraying the people.

    https://gript.ie/new-poll-22-of-voters-believe-irish-people-being-replaced-with-migrants/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    "Independent MEP Michael McNamara has said that many locals initially accepted asylum accommodation arrangements because they thought they were “temporary”, and are concerned that they are now beginning to appear “permanent.” "

    https://gript.ie/temporary-asylum-measures-starting-to-look-permanent-td/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I phrased that poorly, we have resource shortages in certain areas, but overall our big problem is poor use of our wealth.

    There's been shortages of student accommodation, bar a few years during the recession, for an awful long time now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭irishproduce


    I have long maintained this is not incompetence.

    I'm no crazy, but I've yet to be convinced this isn't all designed to drive up the population which will spread economic activity and also grow the size of the overall economy. Someone was sold a PowerPoint presentation somewhere.

    Get the current crop in for low paid jobs that need doing and then hopefully turn their offspring into educated economic units in the longer term.

    They're not wrong in the above. Both will happen as sure as night follows day. The economy will diversify and it will grow. The problem is while we're on that generational journey, those of us here now living through it are paying the price in waiting lists, lack of school places and housing, antisocial behaviour growing and many other issues.

    I refuse to believe it's all incompetence. It can't be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,603 ✭✭✭prunudo


    what off spring, they're predominantly single males.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Which part of that post says that?

    I do think there should be measures taken to allow people reach European and Irish border controls more easily to apply for asylum.

    Any exploitation of the system could be countered with further restrictions and conditions on entering the labour market for people who arrive.

    Using the Mediterranean, smugglers and north African malitias as deterrents has failed, and leaves people in debt to criminals and likely traumatized when they do eventually arrive.

    There have even been recorded examples of people forced to come to Europe to pay off traffickers ransoms for family members.

    But you wouldn't be interested in all that, it's all about the outrage after all.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I support that people be able to seek asylum safely. Do you think Greece and Italy should deal with all the people who seek asylum process coming to Europe?

    I believe that the asylum process is currently a very imperfect way of dealing, in some cases, with economic migration. Have you a better, realistic, alternative?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Who said anything about Irish people claiming asylum?

    When people move to another country they make decisions based on where their friends and family live and where they'll have the best opportunities.

    That applies to people seeking better job or housing outlooks, why would it not apply to asylum seekers?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭irishproduce


    Dropping them into working class and lower class areas fixes that. They're having kids, don't you worry



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Funny, a friend of mine sent this to me earlier.

    It seems Denmark are causing ruptures within the EU and are now pushing for a Rwanda style approach to immigration. They want this as an immediate reassessment of the migration pact, which took years to be negotiated and which they've opted out of.

    There are various reasons they might be doing so, none of which I see coming from them having a nice, straightforward solution to dealing with IPAs, as many here claim.

    https://cphpost.dk/2024-05-21/news/politics/denmark-leads-15-member-states-in-call-to-outsource-eu-migrant-policy/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Gen.Zhukov


    Michael Ring on with PK this morning

    Towards the end he was asked 'What do you see as the challenges in the next GE?' - Did Michael go to the standard response…'Well Pat, it's obviously housing, health and the climate…' - Did he **** - Straight in with the big 'I' and didn't mention anything else - I'd say there were a few 'Ah, ffs Michael' texts received shortly after

    Ring is around a long time and seems like a wily fecker and with his finger on the pulse of both his constituency and the general feeling from within the Dail

    Not contesting the next GE may have loosened him up a bit

    Can't point to direct mins on this



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,348 ✭✭✭sonofenoch


    I think from maybe page 1 of this thread certain people have continually been purposely obtuse about the difference between emigration, immigration ……and free loading asylum seeking refugees



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,755 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    One further point to add to this.

    Technically speaking, an unemployed migrant will increase economic activity. They will be entitled to unemployment benefits, HAP for accommodation, a medical card, they might even get child benefit if they have kids, free schooling, etc. Spending unemployment benefits and consuming health & education resources will generate economic activity.

    Of course the economic activity that they've generated is useless. They haven't created or contributed anything, all they've done is consume money and resources that were paid for by other people.

    Low-paid workers are a less extreme example. They might not consume social welfare, but would likely still be entitled to HAP, GP visits, child benefit, etc. A single man stacking shelves on €25k a year for example would generate only €2.5k a year in tax, that wouldn't even come close to covering their HAP entitlement, let alone unemployment or future state pension payments. The economy will technically grow, even though they are still by far net beneficiaries of the system.

    The problem above is not new, it's something most of Europe is contending with.

    As the above graph for the UK illustrates, the growth of the economy by itself is meaningless. It's the growth of the economy per capita (or person) that matters. Adding migrants who don't work, or are Deliveroo drivers is ultimately going to act as a brake on future prosperity of the country.

    tl;dr - economically speaking, not all migration is equal!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump


    You can be sure the majority know what's going on, just to afraid to call it out and face the backlash from the minority who support it, that's what it is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,333 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    There have even been recorded examples of people forced to come to Europe to pay off traffickers ransoms for family members.

    Citation please or this is anecdote



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,000 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Ireland is not a wealthy country. Any wealth is just resting in the Multinationals accounts.

    Liberal lefties love spending other peoples money and diverting resources from people who actually need it. And the squeezed middle ground are getting angry about it.

    How about a proper community centre in Coolock instead of a refugee camp?

    Its being going on for years. 10 years ago, Peter Sutherland was like a broken record whining from his ivory perch in Kensington London that Ireland should take in hundreds of thousands more people.



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