Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498957#Comment_122498957

What Irish people have been deported from other countries?

I think you might be confusing people being deported after a failed asylum claim with people refused entry who voluntarily return.

You might get a better idea of how the process actually works here…

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/immigration-lawyer-calls-for-reform-of-ineffective-deportation-system-1660813.html

Coolcormack1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498791#Comment_122498791

cause they’re here to work for hse…. Oh wait no

Work in economy and continue providing taxes for the kind state…..oh wait no

Become a valuable part of society….. oh wait no

or just because they are valuable €€€€€ to the hotel owners

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498957#Comment_122498957

Only countries with whom we have mutual deportation agreements can send them here. If there is no such agreement in place, that country couldn't send them here and they would have to remain in the place where they have been detained or tried or whatever.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499104#Comment_122499104

Even with mutual deportation agreements I'd imagine there'd have to be discussion beforehand.

The receiving country would surely have to verify that the person being deported is who the sending country says they are.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499101#Comment_122499101

Have you anything to substantiate these claims about people who've claimed asylum, or is it, surprise, surprise, just more hatemongering?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498776#Comment_122498776

All well and good, and while you might believe some of those cases you know may be making fraudulent disability claims…

You can see how wrong it would be to start describing the wider disabled community as 'bogus', 'scammers' or in some way inferior?

I know that a lot of people here get upset when the term racist is used. But I'd think it worthwhile to have a look at this article on racism as a psychological defense mechanism for feelings of insecurity and anxiety.

While you might genuinely not have racist beliefs, the mechanism for generalizing towards another group is apparent, and if not you, then somebody here, might benefit from looking at what your feelings towards this group says about where your life is now. It might actually just be that you're feeling alone or needing some help.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/201801/the-psychology-racism

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499130#Comment_122499130

Given that you’ve yet to provide any examples of the perceived “hate” - its far from accurate to refer to “more” hatemongering.

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122496983#Comment_122496983

Whoa whoa whoa, what exactly is your contention here? I quoted figures from the Minister for Justice (usually considered a reliable source for asylum statistics) who sourced them from the Department of Justice (usually considered a reliable source for asylum statistics) - to suggest that they are “imagined” is laughable! Separately, you provided a source that indicated that it is difficult to assess the complete scale of secondary movement because we only have data on those recorded by officials, generally those with a registered claim. This suggests that estimates of secondary movement are underestimated rather than overestimated, but, based on your recent response, it seems to me that you’re now implying that the figure is lower than 50% - is that right? Because if you wanted to talk about imagined scenarios, that definitely the place to start!

Headshot

Wow not one mention of Dundrum on RTE news.

The government sure are getting their bang for buck. You read about state controlled media in Eastern Europe but we're seeing it right in front of our eyes with RTE.

This is really shocking for democracy

You know the funny thing, if there was rioting happening in Dundrum, RTE would be there in a split second to tell it's viewers how racist or far right these people are.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499493#Comment_122499493

State controlled media must not have got the memo.

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2024/0813/1464800-dundrum-house/

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499104#Comment_122499104

So you're saying that if an Irish citizen turned up at passport control in Dublin Airport after having been deported from a country we've no agreement with (e.g. North Korea), we'd send them back? Think about it. I'm calling bs on this.

amykl_1987

The hotel in dundrum is owned by former Dublin footballers Alan and Bernard brogan

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499547#Comment_122499547

What your describing now is a totally different scenario to what you described earlier.

Your description now sounds more like a voluntary deportation.

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499522#Comment_122499522

The Six One News is the most watched news programs in Ireland, particularly among the elderly demographic. The elderly for the most party tends to be more engaged with traditional forms of media, such as television, and is less likely to consume news online. This same demographic actually votes too….

I suspect most families come home after a hard day of work and sit down in front of the news to catch up on the latest events and you think these families by in large think oh i must go on RTE website to check did I miss anything!!!

Get out of it!!!!

The Six One News had time for breaking news about prisoners hospitalised after suspected overdoses (seriously who gives a **** about this when everyone knows drugs are rampant in jails) but not something that actually impacts a community? You tell me is that right or not?

You go back to a few weeks ago and The Six One News had no problem broadcasting the Coolock riots because it's fits the governments agenda.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499612#Comment_122499612

No. I think you"re wrong. I do not believe that any Irish citizen who is forcefully deported fron another country would be denied entry to Ireland. Use your common sense. Can you see it happening?

Could you imagine the news headlines:

"......Joe Bloggs, who was forcefully deported for allegedly spying in [insert despot run country of choice] under threat of the death penalty was sent right back by immigration officers at Dublin Airport....because it was a forced deportation. The President gave his condolences to the Bloggs family after he was executed after being sent back."

amykl_1987

The 2040 project, which is beginning now with the IPA thing in dundrum is going to have a monumental impact on our health service.

Imagine how bad this will get when limerick has a population of 200000 and all our indigenous nurses are in Australia etc

https://twitter.com/breakingnewsie/status/1823396641413431383?t=-VPeXMvsYw8YS6sFmGpVLA&s=19

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499660#Comment_122499660

Limerick already has a population of over 200,000? UHL doesn’t just serve the population of Limerick either y’know?

We provide emergency, surgical and medical services on an inpatient and outpatient basis. UL Hospitals Group serves a population of 413,059 (census 2022) people in Limerick, Clare and North Tipperary.

https://healthservice.hse.ie/healthcare-delivery/ul-hospitals-group/about-ul-hospitals-group/about-ul-hospitals-group.html#:~:text=UL%20Hospitals%20Group%20serves%20a,education%2C%20clinical%20research%20and%20innovation.

”Indigenous nurses”, WTF is that about? 😂

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499716#Comment_122499716

Limerick city has a population of approx 100000. The governments plan is to double the populations of our cities outside of dublin according to Simon Coveney a few years ago.

We are seeing a huge influx of people via IPA/refugees currently. This is going to put a massive strain on an already floundering health service. Especially when you consider many Irish people coming out of college or university are leaving because they don't see themselves being able to buy a home here etc.

Hugely increasing the population and not having a plan to maintain services in line with that is not going to work

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499583#Comment_122499583

It was bought by a US investor called Jeff Leo in 2016, according to news sources.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499737#Comment_122499737

Hugely increasing the population and not having a plan to maintain services in line with that is not going to work.

And what do you think the 2040 plan was about exactly? It was about just that. It wasn’t just about increasing the population.

An increase in the demand for services, considering that as you suggest, many Irish people are coming out of college or university are leaving because they don’t see themselves being able to buy a home here, etc, would indicate that there will be no increased demand on services, and that they can be maintained. They are already being maintained by attempting to attract immigrants to Ireland to work in the healthcare sector -

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/f5335-up-to-1800-doctors-to-benefit-from-changes-to-immigration-rules/

The issues with UHL itself have been an ongoing issue for decades, issues that have nothing to do with an increase in the population, and certainly they have nothing to do with any suggestion that immigrants are as likely to avail of healthcare services or any other public services in Ireland, because quite frankly their participation rates are much lower than what you may wish to refer to as the indigenous population:

Conclusions

Lower use of healthcare by those born outside Ireland and the UK relative to the native Irish population may be due to different approaches to healthcare utilisation or obstacles to healthcare utilisation. The findings suggest that the utilisation of healthcare by immigrants merits continued policy attention to respond to the needs of these key groups in society and facilitate integration.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266662352100043X

UHL has it’s own issues, there was a discussion on them on here quite recently:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058337785/university-hospital-limerick-what-can-be-done

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499638#Comment_122499638

How does any of this relate to your earlier claim that we could simply land planes in Georgian airports and tell people to get out?

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499821#Comment_122499821

Do you actually think the government have any sort of plan in place for much improved infrastructure by 2040 when they have granted a succession of amnesty to many thousands of asylum seekers who they cannot or will not deport?

Average occupancy in Ireland is 2.6 so for Limerick that means ~40000 new homes in 15 years, in A country with a chronic housing crisis and whose Capital City does not have a rail link to the Airport.

The same government who have given a company, Brogan Capital Ventures, owned by Steelworks Investments a pile of cash to house Asylum seekers.

Steelworks investments haven't filed annual returns with CRO since 2019, have had a receiver appointed in 2020 yet our actual government are signing contracts with this lot.

But yeah, it will all be grand

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499910#Comment_122499910

This is precisley the problem. Immigrants in tents have expectations - and they have to be provided by government. They're not going to stay in tents for long without consequence.

Yet it is notoriously difficult to get anything done in this country. We have literally had successive FF/FG governments for the past 30 years who have point blankly refused to build houses, refused to deeply invest in other social structures like schools, hospitals and public transport. They can't even build a hospital without it costing €2500m+ and they released a report in 2005 to have the Metro to Dublin airport completed by 2018.

This level of incompetence, uselessness, gombeenism and corruption among FF/FG ain't gonna go away.

Their only solutions will be to throw the taxpayers money at immigrants and tell them to sort their own housing. Give them free medical cards, free social welfare and discriminate positively in their favour and negatively in favour of the Irish citizen.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499821#Comment_122499821

Regarding the last part regarding lower use if healthcare by people born outside Ireland relative to the native Irish population, I'm not certain that necessarily holds true if people seeking asylum are examined separately from people who immigrate from wealthier nations. There are endemic diseases in many developing countries which are much less common in developed nations that are either expensive to treat (HIV would be the most prominent, which of course requires long term ongoing treatment) or can predispose to later serious illnesses such as cancers (such as tuberculosis or hep B/hep C). Added to this the added costs of interpreters for communicating with patients and the lesser likelihood that asylum seekers will be able to fund even minimum GP costs/Hospital charges that a taxpayer above a fairly low threshold would be on the hook for. To my mind asylum seekers are likely to put a greater strain on the health service than their matched Irish counterpart in age.

Scar001

How can a company be awarded government contracts if they haven't filed since 2019?? Surely tax clearance etc. must be up to date??

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500016#Comment_122500016

It is not what you know.…

amykl_1987

Manipulation

https://twitter.com/RobCarryBray/status/1823274806210392341?t=ZLh2FfrN_L8IQIWIAowyhg&s=19

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499910#Comment_122499910

I think they had a plan, the 2040 plan, which was published before the Ukraine situation and the exponential increase in the numbers of people seeking asylum in Europe, which has somewhat thrown that plan into disarray, and so the current Government needs to come up with a new plan, or a new strategy to promote economic growth and development and increase social mobility among the poorest and most deprived in Irish society.

I couldn’t give a tuppeny fcuk about Brogan Capital Ventures or Steelworks, but if you do, then there is the plan for the State to take ownership and management of the whole process of providing accommodation and services for asylum seekers and refugees in Ireland, so that private sector organisations are not profiting from payments made for services rendered. That too however has been an ongoing issue for decades in relation to the provision of homeless services by giving payments to hotels to accommodate people who are homeless, with ne’er a word about it from the same people who only NOW give a shìt about people who are homeless, because they want to pit those people against immigrants, asylum seekers and refugees.

I don’t imagine it will actually all be grand, I’ve already said that I don’t expect Roderic has all the answers, but between himself, Helen McEntee and Norma Foley in the Education portfolio - they’ve done incredible work. Stephen Donnelly has been unimpressive in his portfolio as Healtj Minister, but the Health portfolio has always been a poison chalice anyway ever since the days of Mary Harney’s disastrous tenure. Overcrowding within the hospital system has become a feature, not a bug:

This week’s figures from the INMO show there is “severe overcrowding” in the Mid Western Regional Hospital in Limerick, which has in excess of 51 patients either on trolleys or on extra beds on corridors.

https://archive.ph/ZHU4h

(Article from 2011, 13 years ago!)

I don’t think it’ll all be grand, but at a national level it’s definitely not nearly as bad as you’re trying to make out, nor do I think any of the immigration policies that have so far been suggested in this thread are ever likely to be considered, let alone implemented. In order for that to happen it would require any of the anti-immigrant one trick pony parties to succeed in getting into Government, and all evidence so far overwhelmingly suggests that the Irish people just don’t want anything to do with them.

Even those protesting against Government policies in relation to the provision of accommodation for asylum seekers and refugees, don’t want anything to do with them:

A spokesperson for a group called No to Dundrum House Hotel IPAS centre said: “We are here at the gates of Dundrum House Hotel, trying desperately to maintain our peaceful protest. We have now had members of outside groups join us, despite us expressly telling them to stay away.

“There are live TikToks being broadcast against our wishes. We have told them to leave. We do not want the trouble they seem intent on causing. We only care about Dundrum House Hotel.”

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/tipperary/news/tense-scenes-in-tipperary-as-first-group-of-international-protection-applicants-arrive-at-dundrum-house-hotel/a1733562700.html

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500016#Comment_122500016

Steelworks Investments Limited was set up on Friday the 9th of November 2012. Their current partial address is Meath, and the company status is Normal. The company's current director has been the director of 11 other Irish companies. Steelworks Investments Limited has 2 shareholders. This Irish company shares its Eircode with at least 11 other companies.

The company address is at the Pillo Hotel in Ashbourne.

The company director, according to LinkedIn was previously a Senior Vice President (US job titles are stupid) at both Morgan Stanley and UBS.

2 property developers brought High Court proceedings against the company director in 2022 "over an alleged failure to comply with an agreement to develop lands in Portugal."

He invested in Altada, a high profile start up that went into examinership.

And the most recently filed accounts for Steelworks with the CRO are for the financial year ended 31/12/2017, with the company not having filed an annual return to the CRO in over 4 years.

All of the above found in 5 minutes on Google. Who in government / public service has signed an agreement with this guy?

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500016#Comment_122500016

Gombeenism…