Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Lotus Flower

@Thorny Queen thank you for posting that. I couldn’t agree more and that narrative is an insult to many Irish medical professionals. More people need to counter this narrative when it comes up

Ash.J.Williams

I was in hospital for a while without the use of my hands, the guys that deliver my breakfast did not speak English and would drop the tray in front of me and leave, then due to carers being overstretched nobody would Come to feed me, then yer man would call back and take my tray without even asking why it wasn't touched 😀😀

I do love African and Indian nurses though, lovely people.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122515939#Comment_122515939

the only way it will change, is once the election is called, FF distance themselves from FG and move back to the right. Unlikely to happen, but if they had the backbone and conviction to do it, it would work out well for them imo. Once they actually see it through.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122516535#Comment_122516535

They were never right wing in the way that is usually understood though - more like a 'rural Catholic conservatism' than anything in common with, say, the Nigel Farage / GB News crowd.

CollyFlower

"right-wing" in Ireland doesn't always align with how it is in other countries, just because we hold protest in Ireland we're called Right Wing by the governments are RTE.

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517889#Comment_122517889

Yup the Governments mouth pieces label anyone that has concerns about immigration as far right/racist. It's text book by this government, scare mongering and deflection.

It's a very smart move by the government but there's cracks showing, the Irish people may not openly protest on the streets in very large numbers but your local politician will hear it on the door step and boy they'll be some kicking in the general election.

We see it in the polls, immigration will be a huge talking point during the general election.

I heard a very insightful phrase describing majority of these illegals.

"Welfare tourists"

It's bang on isnt it, most of these people are illegal immigrates that come to Ireland for the nice benefits. Lovely hotels, lovely food, 38 euro, your clothes washed, medical card etc etc. God it's no wonder they come here isnt it.

______________________________________

Warned: "Most of these people"?

Generalisations don't help your argument.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457013#Comment_122457013

As fully expected - deflection. Typically you are unable to answer the question.

Viscount Aggro

Mount street bridge - its back looking like a shanty town, tents inside the fencing.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518221#Comment_122518221

Saw a few lads walking out of bushes behind the airport yesterday (up near the Boot Inn). Sure what's the harm. Hopefully everywhere can be enriched by blokes sleeping in tents not working. We need them for health care jobs

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122515033#Comment_122515033

Assuming you are talking per year - we didn't. 2022,2023 and most likely 2024 have/will surpass(ed) the peak year of 02 of 11.5k.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122515991#Comment_122515991

There is no answer - we are stuck with either FF/FG again or some weird left/far left coalition. Which would be even worse than the current shower in charge.

threeball

Rather than getting involved in constant arguments in this country about racism and refugees I think we need to actually decide what we want the future of this country to look like. What should the population be? Are we happy to go down the same route as England and have a heavy population density and gain the economic benefits that comes with a larger population or do we value the less hectic, strained life that living in a lower density population allows.

Some people have bandied about figures of 10-15m people eventually living on the Island. Is this something we want or is the constant chase for economic growth and personal financial growth worth all the downsides that come along with it.

We will always have a duty to take a certain amount of refugees regardless of what we choose but I think a conversation needs to be had as to what we as a nation want it to look like in 20-30yrs. Asking the question as part of an election manifesto isn't enough, as it gets diluted with all the other topics of the day. I think there needs to be a specific vote about the direction we take. It will form our future in regard to what we as a people want and democratically decide once and for all the will of the people.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518295#Comment_122518295

thats all very well, but when you see the delays to planning permission for essential infrastructure we just aren't able to plan for the future.

But equally, increasing our population can't just be a free for all. Because we can't have a situation where a flood of migrants become a drain on already strained welfare and social housing system.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518303#Comment_122518303

Irish referendums are only held on matters that require changes to the constitution. The constitution says absolutely nothing about immigration or asylum seekers, so there is nothing to be amended - it's solely up to the Dáil to legislate on asylum / immigration laws going forward.

Ozvaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518295#Comment_122518295

You are using the word we a lot here - to be honest the government has taken the word we out of our society,WE have no say anymore

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518424#Comment_122518424

Thats my point "we" have not been asked what we want. Its been levied on us and we just have to accept what happens. At election time, 10 other issues are higher priority and we don't decide of immigration solely. To be honest we need to go more to a swiss style where big issues like this are put to the people rather than having the individual beliefs of a Taoiseach or high ranking minister set our course.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122515939#Comment_122515939

It's been done to death on various boards.ie threads as to whether ff/fg are left or right of center.

I'd very much go with this analysis that has them both as center right parties, especially when you consider the privatize everything policies and effective corporation tax rates.

https://politpro.eu/en/ireland/parties#google_vignette

Regardless though, I think what we're seeing currently is a reflection of a trend of centrist parties rejecting the anti-immigration rhetoric of the past.

I think the centre-right especially might previously have seen tough anti-immigration rhetoric as a vote-winner, whereas now they're far more wary of simply opening the door to the populist/far-right brigade and having their own parties destroyed, having seen what's happened to the Tories or Republic parties in the US.

I think largely the only ones pushing the anti-immigration rhetoric, in Ireland and elsewhere, from now on will be the populist and far-right parties with everyone else wanting nothing to do with those parties, or that rhetoric.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518325#Comment_122518325

No we're useless at it, does that mean we should not start trying today.

My point is that it can't be a free for all. The Irish public should decide what our population should look like. We are going down the same route as many larger countries where there's immigration, with no assimilation and no real plan on how this all looks in 10-15yrs time. That will only result in chaos and resentment which won't go away.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518218#Comment_122518218

I've answered that question already in the thread.

I simply cannot see a scenario where it would make sense to start pushing failed and dangerous deterrence or hard border approaches.

At what point do you think we should introduce Swedish style, mandatory spying on friends and neighbors laws?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/11/sweden-snitch-law-immigration-plan-prompts-alarm-across-society

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518484#Comment_122518484

100 percent agree with you, but honestly can't see it ever changing, the culture of being reactive is ingrained in the departments and those pulling the strings. Nothing is ever proactive, always reactive.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518506#Comment_122518506

I'm not against immigration or helping refugees but if we are to follow your logic then we shouldn't have borders at all. No more countries, everyone can move everywhere with no controls.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518411#Comment_122518411

I dunno how many times this has to be repeated -a change to the constitution is NOT a requirement to hold a referendum in this country. There is such a thing as an ordinary referendum.

Any bill to deal with "immigration" could be voted on, if the government wished it.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514315#Comment_122514315

There's such a lack of coherence amongst those pushing the anti-immigration rhetoric.

It's a confused mess really, and I think the public are certainly turning away at least from the more extreme stuff.

One the one hand we've people decrying the neo-liberalist approach (a position I'd largely agree with).

The next minute they want us to follow the vision of the 'father of neoliberalism' Milton Friedman.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/07/24/the-rise-and-fall-of-neoliberalism

How's anyone supposed to make sense of this?

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518514#Comment_122518514

You're probably right and its why we'll never really create the country we could be. We only worry about today, anyone with a vision is seen as some idealistic dreamer. And we get a bunch of egotistical self promoting numbskulls running the place.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518249#Comment_122518249

Agreed, I was slightly off with my figures.

But it is worth noting that we've had period of higher IPA arrivals before and the world didn't end.

https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/BKMNEXT085.pdf

A poster earlier in the thread also shared a figure of 140k asylum arrivals over the last twenty years. This really shows what a small group relatively speaking we're talking about, especially in terms of demand on housing and services.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518541#Comment_122518541

And it has never ever been used. It is a referendum on a bill. The purpose is to put a proposed bill to the people. Which bill do you think TDs should petition for a referendum?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518589#Comment_122518589

I thought the question was from your earlier post,

"how many people should Ireland accommodate every year for the short to medium term?"

Was there another question?

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518602#Comment_122518602

It is, so give us a non BS/deflective answer with the number of AS's you think we as a country should take for at least the next 20 years.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518565#Comment_122518565

We are agreed then? A constitutional change is not required? Good to know.

mistersifter

There are all sorts of social and environmental hazards resulting from the big tented sites. Violence has been commonplace in them.

Some new insights this morning into the Crooksling site and other similar sites. It's frightening to think that the government's long-term plan is to make this the norm.

They cram hundreds of young men from god knows where into these places and then Roderic tells us that people's worst fears won't materialise.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/08/19/cockroach-infestations-dead-rats-and-aggressive-behaviour-flagged-in-reports-on-asylum-accommodation/