Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518634#Comment_122518634

Of course a constitutional change is not required. We are talking about the other type of referendum now. Never going to happen of course.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518639#Comment_122518639

I'd say thats only the half of it, as some centres don't even fall under the remit of HIQA.

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507783#Comment_122507783

Last time the Troika were here the inner circles were protected and the bill was just put on a tab or shifted to the common man/woman tax unit and their future generations.

Ireland still has higher VAT rates and insurance levies from then to which the public have become accustomed.

Germany has an interesting coalition where one party, the FDP(think of Progressive Democrats with some morals), acknowledges it can't stop most of the bleeding heart policies of the Greens and Socialists but have a firm line that they will not allow their Coalition Partners borrow on the never/never to finance their policies. They control the Finance Department.

The Schuldenbremse(debt brake) which is backed by article 109 of the Constitution has caused much consternation amongst the profligate politicians who would otherwise be throwing money around like the Irish Government do. This is restricting economic growth in Germany but on balance it is for the common good.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518689#Comment_122518689

I think the fact you're resorting to simply making up false claims of what I said is very telling.

It points to the 'post-truth' nature of much of the anti-immigration talking points, and the ideological weakness behind all the scaremongering and hateful rhetoric.

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518544#Comment_122518544

Reality is it doesn’t matter what anyone discusses here and it doesn’t matter what anyone discusses in the Dail either. This country has no agency in this matter. EU obligations trump everything in this country. This country is not economically viable to exert full sovereignty over its decision making. That’s the crushing reality that has to be accepted.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518620#Comment_122518620

As I've stated clearly before we should continue to accept IPA applications until the short-term costs of accommodating people etc outweigh the consequences of trying to implement hard border or deterrent policies.

I can't envision that point ever arriving so couldn't put a metric on it.

That might be hard to understand if you're one of these people who thinks a country of 5.2million people has been 'flooded' by 140k IPA arrivals over twenty years.

JohnJoFitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122515195#Comment_122515195

You are some spoofer. How many times is that now have you been caught posting absolute lies?

Zero credibility now if you ever had any to begin with.

___________________________________________

Warned:

1 - discuss the topic, not the poster

2 - you're threadbanned

3 - 1 week forum ban now

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518874#Comment_122518874

Fine, but tell us again how this mass deportation scheme of yours is going to work?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518850#Comment_122518850

Now you got it.

Your 'gotcha' question isn't what you think it is.

How could I possibly provide a number for something I just can't see happening?

I just don't see where it would ever be the correct decision to invest further in failed hard border and deterrence policies.

It's like asking when we should introduce prohibition to tackle binge drinking, some things just don't work.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518976#Comment_122518976

Thanks. What absolute lies are you talking about?

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519047#Comment_122519047

The one in my post to you where you claimed that the current numbers of IPAs were "nothing compared to the late 90s" - and were shown that to be completely wrong, i.e. 1990s highest around 11k - if we're lucky, the current figure will stay below 30k.

There's one for starters.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519088#Comment_122519088

And I've acknowledged that was a genuine mistake.

I don't know where you're getting this figure of 30k, or 35k as you mentioned previously.

Currently the highest number of IPA arrivals we've had in one year was 13.6k in 2022.

This is higher nationally than what we had in 2002 at 11.6k and I was mistaken to say otherwise.

The point remains that this current high numbers of IPA arrivals aren't unprecedented, and actually are lower per capita than what we had in the early noughties.

This years figures will by all indications be higher again, but people arriving via asylum applications will still remain a very small percentage of our total population.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519127#Comment_122519127

I believe the govt did say there could be 30k new arrivals this year, based on weekly numbers hitting 600 around May. Not sure what the weekly numbers are now.

There were also over 30k in direct provison by May, according to the dept of integration. Again, I dont know what that number looks like now in August.

Tents are back at the Grand Canal it seems.

nachouser

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/047e0-find-the-latest-ipas-statistics-weekly-report-here/

Weekly stats available here. 424 was the most recent number.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519036#Comment_122519036

This isnt a gotcha question.

You were the one that has suggested the government should take in every one who comes here for the short to medium term. Given that I assume you expect the government to plan for this - all the extra infrastructure, doctors etc - you know proper planning. Little point in making preparations for 10,000 if 50,000 show up. It is only fair to request your envisaged numbers for such a scenario.

"Failed hard border and deterrence policies"… You should query this with the government as I am sure they would be surprised at their existence, and no, people using smugglers to get across the med isn't one of them.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519176#Comment_122519176

And you can bet your last cent that if the Govt are saying 30k the actual number is way higher.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519176#Comment_122519176

The estimates I had seen but the number of arrivals this year at approx 20k.

But even at 30k, we'd be talking somewhere in the region of 170k arrivals over 20 years.

That would equate to about 3% of the current population. This 3%, according to AGS, are no more likely to be involved in crime, and according to the ESRI, have strong participation rates in the workforce.

Yet we see them blamed for everything from the housing crisis to soggy football pitches.

It just doesn't add up.

CollyFlower

" 6,740 asylum seekers are staying in these centres. However, another 23,174 people, including 6,111 children, live in 256 ‘emergency accommodation centres"

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/08/19/cockroach-infestations-dead-rats-and-aggressive-behaviour-flagged-in-reports-on-asylum-accommodation/

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519346#Comment_122519346

Sorry, I wasnt suggesting asylum seekers were more likley to commit crime.

My point was solely focused on the numbers arriving and that the govt had revised their projection to 25k to 30k this year for new arrivals, vs the 20k I think they were expecting at the beginning of the year.

The weekly peak at 600 in May doesnt appear to have been maintained.

30k per year would take less than 6 years to get to 170k though, no?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519420#Comment_122519420

No problem, I didn't mean to suggest you were one of those posters trying to link IPAs with criminality.

The figure of 170k is based on how many arrived here in the last twenty years.

I believe that figure is currently 140k, so another 30k would be 170k.

It might be that we see numbers increase, or stay as they are for a while, or they might drop off as they did previously.

The point remains that currently IPAs represent a very small part of the population, yet we see them wrongly blamed for all sorts of issues.

Fred_Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518639#Comment_122518639

It's funny how the behaviour of these young middle eastern and Pakistani men is EXACTLY what you would expect it to be and completely predictable, perfectly living up to their stereotype. Like, couldn't they at least try to surprise us and give their woke cheerleaders something to point to?

A separate report from February warned of “physical altercations” between residents who had “extremely poor attitudes” towards staff and “a total disregard to rules”.

One report reveals two residents were arrested by gardaí in February after an altercation broke out between a Somali resident and two Georgian residents, two of whom became “extremely aggressive”.

One fire safety report noted that a male resident collapsed and was “dragged” from his room in late May after a fire broke out. Staff found the man was “highly intoxicated” and had been lighting a cigarette when it fell and set fire to his room. 

In another case, gardaí were called after a hotel fire alarm went off and a “cloud of smoke” emerged from a room where young male residents, aged 18 to 19, had been “smoking illegal substances”.

Numerous reports reference residents smoking in their rooms, with some tampering with smoke detection devices.

In some cases, reports were made of “suspected marijuana” and “illegal substances” being smoked in centres, while one noted a “shisha pipe” in an apartment.

Another noted an “airsoft gun” – a replica firearm used recreationally for mock war games – was confiscated from a resident during a fire safety inspection.

Fred_Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519420#Comment_122519420

The evidence from Germany and Finland is that asylum seekers are more likely than the native population to commit crime.

What are you apologizing for?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519649#Comment_122519649

There were some reports shared earlier in the thread showing historically higher rates of suspected involvement in certain types of crime by IPAs in Germany anyway, I don't recall anything from Finland. One of those reports at least was quite clear that it's results were in no way suitable for making broader conclusions.

I'm not aware of anything at all suggesting 'IPAs are more likely than the native population to commit crime', and I think AGS have been quite clear on that in Ireland.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519560#Comment_122519560

Shocking stuff indeed.

I'm sure if there were young Irish people aged 18-19 in a residential center, not allowed to work, there'd be no fights, drunkenness or suspected cannabis smoking.

These attempts to portray 'young middle eastern and Pakistani men' as deviant are quite pathetic. Even more so considering the report shared doesn't mention anyone at all from these regions.

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518829#Comment_122518829

A country with a housing crisis

Crap healthcare

A myriad of other social issues

Fred_Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519708#Comment_122519708

Here you go:

https://stat.fi/til/rpk/2018/13/rpk_2018_13_2019-05-16_tie_001_en.html

Iraqi men 3.7 times more likely to be involved in offenses against life and health than Finnish men.

Iraqi men 12.8 times more likely to be suspects in sexual assault than Finnish men

Somali men 4 times more likely to be involved in theft than Finnish men

The sexual assault one really stands out, doesn't it MegamanBoo?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518824#Comment_122518824

I agree, we've little choice but to follow the EU approach in these matters.

While I don't agree myself with the current migration pact I do think it's a step towards rejecting the existing failed hard-border approaches.

Overall though I wouldn't consider any of this a 'crushing reality'. EU membership has been of great benefit to Ireland and at least we've been spared the madness of some of the solo run efforts, UK's 'stop the boats' madness or Sweden's mandatory spying on friends and neighbors coming to mind.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519757#Comment_122519757

Also Sweden and it's gang issues. Resulting in them now paying them to leave and joining up with other nordic countries to protect themselves against the problems that they imported. But sure the Swedes love it and everybody is getting along well!

We are so sound here that putting thousands of men into tents/places with no abilty to support them can only result in everything going great. Plus we get to feel good for saving the world!

Fred_Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519772#Comment_122519772

Yep. In fact "Swedish" men have a crime rate about twice that of Finnish men, which was puzzling but then I realiszed it's broken down by nationality, not ethnicity. So it's highly unlikely to be ethnic Swedes, it's likely to be asylum / migrants to Sweden who subsequently got Swedish nationality, then moved to Finland.

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519744#Comment_122519744

Don't worry more tents incoming.

All the tents left over from Electric Picnic will find themselves in Grand Canal.