Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

chooey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526542#Comment_122526542

and they likewise should be deported from where they are if they are there illegally. Just because there are Irish doing the same abroad, that does not mean that we should turn a blind eye or do nothing about our situation over here.

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526459#Comment_122526459

We don't have a serious immigration/AS/refugees issue.

We have a serious mismanagement of the overall immigration policy regardless of it's type and in particular with AS and refugees we have a total lack of political will to implement a proper policy because that means the money stops flowing in the right direction.

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526542#Comment_122526542

If you do not legally enter a country, you shouldn't be there. If you legally enter a country and commit crime, you should not be allowed stay.

Now I'll give you a slight benefit of the doubt and allow you to cry about fraud sometimes being conflated with paying the wrong fare. I am not saying people should be deported for innocently forgetting to tag onto the luas with a leap card. Honest mistakes happen. But we all know what constitutes crime. You need to take into consideration the motive, the victim and the severity of the crime.

So now your position is that people who commit crimes in countries of which they are not citizens, should be considered normal or desirable?

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526576#Comment_122526576

Thats the issue I was talking about

Ozvaldo

Lads now can't be arsed going in through north just coming in directly at Dublin airport as there is absolutely zero consequences for arriving with no passport .We are an embarrassment of a country

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526542#Comment_122526542

I missed your edited in "Who's next in line for those looking for scapegoats in Ireland? My guess is the LQBTQ+ communities and the disabled" line.

This is a very dishonest debating tactic. Your attempting to compare people looking for a fair, safe and secure immigration policy to people who are going to target the LGBTQ+ and disabled people. With absolutely no basis to do so.

The irony being, the people who have the least tolerance for LGBTQ+ people are the people from different cultures. The people you staunchly defended because sometimes "only verbal sexual harrassment" were mixed in with the crime stats.

That is the very definition of virtue signalling, which is a phrase I hate using as it is so clichéd, but it sums up your argument perfectly.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526542#Comment_122526542

Still beating that tired worn out old drum about Irish undocumented. Which is totally different to the chancers we have rocking up here claiming they have no documentation, I can bet that the vast majority of Irish undocumented will have entered that country with a valid passport and visa and did not try hide who they were or claim asylum under false pretenses. Also if the Irish undocumented person is caught by Immigration in that country they are deported from that country and banned from entering that country again for a number of years, here they are given a passport and told to go on your way.

Ridiculous comparison, you are grasping at straws defending this.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526264#Comment_122526264

Look at the UK, they voted for the Tories for years and when David Cameron promised them control of their borders again free from the E.U which caused the UK to make the biggest mistake in decades by voting through Brexit.. and look at them now, a new Government, the Tories wiped out 8 years later and the boats keep on coming, 100's a day.

So no matter who you vote for in Ireland, FFFG, SF, Labour… the migrants will still come over the border knocking on the IPAS office in Mount Street.

With the current way the migration issue is running in Ireland, you could say we don't have an "Asylum" system in Ireland.

Gusser09

You can talk nonsense about undocumented Irish all you want but the countries they are entering aren't handing them a weekly payment and a nice modular home worth 200k. It's not comparable.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526665#Comment_122526665

Look I've no problem at all with the Irish living undocumented. In fact I recognize what the remittances they and other Irish emigrants sent home did to keep this country going in very hard times.

It's another poster here who thinks they are 'degenerates' who 'lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable'.

I'm not too sure that people coming here without documents are breaking laws. I strongly suspect those convictions will be overturned in time and we'll end up paying compensation to those now imprisoned. Maybe I'm missing some legal nuance here but I really can't understand how something can be legal and illegal at the same time.

The problem I see with bandying about terms like 'degenerates' and 'bogus' is that some people will use the terms to describe all IPAs or Irish emigrants. Others might only mean them for specific subgroups, ie those that meet some condition, not having certain documentation or only those from particular countries, but used carelessly they all feed the same hateful narrative.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526648#Comment_122526648

I don't think it's just me who sees the relationship between those involved with spreading anti-immigration hate and homophopic and transphopic hate.

https://edmohub.ie/index.php/profile-of-anti-immigration-parties/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41405723.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-41190085.html

https://journals-sagepub-com.dcu.idm.oclc.org/doi/10.1177/02610183211063402

As for the turning on the disabled if you go back a few pages you'll see posters here defending referring to people on disability benefits as 'scammers' etc, as they do with IPAs.

Of course I appreciate there are those within the anti-immigration movement who would find such views as abhorrent as the rest of us but clearly there are those who also wish to spread hate towards the LGBTQ and disabled communities.

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527150#Comment_122527150

At this stage, you are trying to paint those who have a different opinion as you with the oft-used "far-right" stereotype. It's (and I hate to be repetative) dishonest and frankly a little boring.

It pretty much is trying to label anyone who has an issue with immigration as "in-bed" with racists, homophobes and bigots, in order to hope they don't voice their concerns in an attempt to avoid being found guilty by association.

It's having the opposite effect though as people are getting tired of being told they are something they aren't, by pandering clout-chasing, virtue signalling (ugh, I said it again) liars.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527188#Comment_122527188

As I've said before I don't think too much in terms of what political affiliations people claim. Whether people call themselves nationalists, far-right, community protestors etc is much of a muchness really.

The common-denominator that I see is the use of hateful rhetoric.

Whether that's yourself describing the Irish undocumented abroad as 'degenerates' that have 'lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable', or claiming that 'the people who have the least tolerance for LGBTQ+ people are the people from different cultures', or other posters using terms like 'bogus' and 'scammers' to refer to IPAs, there's a clear and obvious common message.

Francie Barrett

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2024/08/21/its-not-fair-to-call-those-concerned-about-uncontrolled-immigration-far-right/

It is idle to debate whether “Ireland is full” – whatever that is supposed to mean. But it is by no means idle to acknowledge the obvious, glaring truth that Ireland is in no position in the middle of a massive housing shortage to add to that crisis by accepting 25,000 homeless migrants claiming asylum every year who are legally entitled to State-provided shelter.

It's scary how McDowell seems to be one of the few that actually gets this, and is willing to speak up on the issue.

chooey

article here if it’s behind a paywall for some

https://www.michaelmcdowell.ie/our-immigration-problems-will-not-be-solved-by-eu-migration-pact.html

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527274#Comment_122527274

It is not hateful to say that people who are in our country who commit crimes are not morally desirable to the majority of the public. It's odd that you keep repeating that I said that as if it is a controversial opinion.

And, for clarity, it is not my "claim" that people from different cultures have a very different opinion on homosexuality. It is well known that Ireland has a much more accepting attitude than people coming from starkly different cultures. If you are going to deny that, then please, lets not engage again.

And yes, there is a clear and consistant message emerging; we have had enough. we need a better immigration system, we need to get our own house in order before we can fix others.

Despite what people who think like you say, it's not hate to want stability.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527150#Comment_122527150

Phobia = irrational fear of something.

I think homosexuals are great, I do not fear them.

It is less likely that a gay will mug me, burgle my house, etc., compared to non-homosexuals.

They seem to be more creative, singers, music, cinema, etc. Great contributions to society.

But I am against same-sex marriage, as marriage is a union of a man and a woman. I do not accept any other definition.

Opposition to SSM is not homophobia.

In the same way, opposition to illegal immigration is not racism.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527430#Comment_122527430

I'd think there's a broad spectrum of views on LGQTQ+ concerns in Ireland. Many people are within the community, others are supportive and some want to push hate, violence and discrimination.

The same is true for people from other cultures. It's your catch-all generalizations to the opposite that are hateful.

As for your claims about 'degenerates' and people who are 'morally, physically and mentally' undesirable you didn't talk specifically about people coming here, you also clarified directly that you hold these views towards the Irish undocumented living abroad. As far as I can tell your beliefs apply to any person in general who breaks the law, is that correct?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527579#Comment_122527579

Its not the first embarrassing post.

Sweet.Science

The people of Ballyboden were one step ahead of the owner. And note how nobody wants it described as 'domestic terrorism' anymore . Terrorism isnt covered on Insurance polices €€€

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527344#Comment_122527344

It's hilarious given all the disdain shown here towards neoliberal ideology, that the former leader of Ireland's neo-liberal party has become something of a hero figure.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Progressive-Democrats

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527008#Comment_122527008

Bogus is pretty explicit by definition. I don’t think it’s being used as adjective to stereotype all international protection applicants, however I do think the vast majority of international protection applicants are in fact making bogus applications hence the use of the term.

Bogus - not genuine or true (used in a disapproving manner when deception has been attempted).

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527643#Comment_122527643

The phrase "degenerates" relates to people whose morals are not normal or desirable.

In much they same way as I would be a degenerate if I wanted to parade topless in a muslim country while drinking.

In the south of france that would be is normal and, in my earlier days, desirable to most.

It isn't hard to not break the laws. If you don't like the laws of the land, or your culture makes it difficult to not break the law, then LEAVE.

We shouldn't be tolerant to others inability to break our laws, in much the same way other countries should be able to govern how they feel appropriate.

I do have to admire your lack of self awareness when you accuse me of using "catch-all" statements and in the same sentence where you use LGBTQ+ (the ultimate catch all).

You yourself said that you would expect to see Iraqi people over represented in sexual harrassment reports due to their culture. Yet somehow you try to allude that my generalisation of other cultures being less tolerant towards homosexuality than ours is somehow wrong or hateful.

amykl_1987

Thats some amount of money

https://twitter.com/Mick_O_Keeffe/status/1826214093696516590?t=4dbWDVGa6_T-8ReS2ogzdQ&s=19

baldbear

I see a couple of lads from Jordan gave an an interview. €150 each from Belfast in a taxi is what they pay to come down.

10000maniacs

Walking down from Charlemount, I see there are 30-40 tents back along the Grand Canal, and they are pitching their tents inside the steel fences erected to keep them out. LOL.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528023#Comment_122528023

And once the IPAS office establish this they should be putting these chancers on the next plane to the UK.

facehugger99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527344#Comment_122527344

The PDs certainly weren't everyone's cup of tea but they provided a very useful function. They were a good counterweight to the leftward drift of successive Governments.

The Irish electorate in their wisdom decided to obliterate them from the political landscape in 2007. Now we're scratching our heads wondering why the Dail in 2024 is chock-a-block with extreme leftwing nutjobs while people like McDowell are confined to the Seanad.

It'll be at least a decade or more before a new right of center party forms and gains any traction.

This is what we chose - now we live with the consequences.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527739#Comment_122527739

You didn't give the answer I asked for. Do you consider everyone who breaks the law 'degenerate', a term you defined as 'morally, physically or mentally' undesirable? Or is it reserved for certain people who migrate, Irish or otherwise?

There's a world of difference between saying a group would be over-represented and making hateful generalizations. Based on what I know of criminal statistics, I expect people who are unemployed or even poorer to be over-represented in prisons. It would however cross a line into hateful rhetoric to go around talking about poorer people as criminal, or even 'degenerate', in the broader sense.

edit corrected typo

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528145#Comment_122528145

If I understand what you're saying correctly, you're fine with what PD governments did around privatizing health and housing in the 90's and 00's, once this 'leftward drift' was kept at bay?

What do you mean then by this 'leftward drift'?