Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534721#Comment_122534721

Apologies if I'm mixing you up with another poster.

But wasn't deportations your big thing? Weren't you the poster who said that ultimately we'll simply have to be able to deport large amounts of people?

Maybe you've changed your mind, fair enough.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534726#Comment_122534726

Yeah fine but what are you recommending in relation to the CTA? We can all give out and moan but have you practical suggestions?

You said "Work with the UK government to prevent the abuse of the CTA."...so let's brainstorm...

I waltzed thru Stansted last week without having to show my passport to anyone except the Ryanair guy at the gate who was only matching the passport name to the boarding pass. He couldn't care less.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534801#Comment_122534801

So you presented the correct matching and valid documentation to the boarding agent so he did his job but"he couldn't care less"

So if you presented no passport at the boarding gate I am sure the agent there would care a lot more and you'd be denied boarding… or he would lose his job and his company fined.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534983#Comment_122534983

You're missing the point entirely. I am talking about the lack of passport controls. He only cared that I had a passport and the names matched. A driving license would also have worked. He didn't care if I had a proper visa for Eire or anything like that. He didn't ask the purpose of my visit. He did not scan the passport to check for issues. Not his job. There is no passport control until you get to Ireland and that's where people claim asylum. I understand there can be random checks from immigration officers but I have never witnessed it. Easy ditch the passport between the Ryanair gate guy and Irish "passport control" too as we all know. Actually the Irish passport control was 2 lads in Shannon at midnight waving everyone through quickly with a glance at passport.

So expert, would you abolish the CTA? Would you implement a border controls/check from NI?

Ozvaldo

I Would prefer a hard border with the North

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534201#Comment_122534201

There are two reasons why they are making their way from Northern Ireland.

1: Obviously the UK social welfare system is not attractive enough. And Ireland's is better.

2: They were refused asylum in the UK and took off to pursue their remaining option. The Republic of Ireland.

It's not rocket science to fix both of these.

Limit their social welfare to a few Euros a week.

Stop giving the NGOs tent money. May as well be pissing taxpayers money up against a wall.

Request access to the UK asylum database.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535291#Comment_122535291

Not much point giving it thought. There is no realistic sustainable future of this country where there is a hard border with the North. There isn't any way that the governments either side of the border have the appetite for miring themselves once more in the torturous issue of how you effectively police the border (to hard border standards). The most we will see are the odd checks and targeted interceptions.

What's more, the British have the stronger hand in this. There is no incentive for them to administer a hard border (and to co-fund that administration) as the easy movement of migrants from North to South is likely to be the more attractive flow path than South to North. There doesn't appear to be much incentive for the Northern executive and British state to plug that gap.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534759#Comment_122534759

maybe you thought twintytwo was in the cohort with the mental illness? Wasn’t that you who said that?

No idea why deporting illegal migrants should be seen as a taboo subject that we can’t talk about.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534399#Comment_122534399

I've a solution for her and anyone else not happy with the conditions….

Feel free to get yourself to the airport, get on a plane, and go try a country that might be more to your liking. If they got themselves to Ireland from wherever, that should be an easy enough task.

No one is forcing her or anyone to stay. It's not a prison camp.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535012#Comment_122535012

CTA is there for a reason and is used daily in the thousands by the legal documented citizens of the UK&Ireland, so abolishing it would serve no purpose and would not stop the daily flow of illegal migrants paying €150 to get driven over the border from Belfast to the IPAS office on Mount St.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535401#Comment_122535401

I said something related but it certainly wasn't my intention to claim anybody was part of a cohort with mental illness.

I don't believe discussing deportations is taboo I just recall @twinytwo as having made strong claims on the subject previously, but as I said, maybe it was a different poster.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535424#Comment_122535424

So no concrete suggestions then? Continue as we are and have a good moan?

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534567#Comment_122534567

Not trying to be cheeky here but taking a view of "if it's done properly it won't be too much of an inconvenience" could be applied to pretty much anything.

It's not just how you actually implement a border, but also how you make that implementation sustainable and maintain perpetual public buy-in. I'm from just north of the border myself and I really don't see how you would go about getting buy in from the border communities on a permanent basis.

I've said this many times on here. A fully focused operation involving armed British soldiers, helicopters, watchtowers, checkpoints and surveillance technology did not manage to prevent the routine movement of people and contraband across the border for decades. A much less-equipped and less-resourced effort by the Irish state to harden the border — with what will be (at best) half-hearted co-operation from the British if they even co-operate at all — will amount to little more than ineffective and potentially extremely costly (economically and politically) optics.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535613#Comment_122535613

Oh you want to draw me into your good moan? No thanks.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535543#Comment_122535543

ah, since we are on the subject of previous contributions this is exactly what you said, this just serves as a reminder to anyone trying to engage in good faith conversations with you demonstrating how you feel about anyone with different views to yourself:

“Just a reminder that a lot of the views expressed here regarding people who seek asylum and other immigrants can be indicative of mental health issues”

I’ll leave out the latter part where you suggested posters should seek help and linked off to a service.

Since you didn’t clarify which posts you were referring to in that catch all “reminder”… one can only assume you meant anyone with an opposing view to yourself on this matter.

— ——————— -------

Back on the subject of deportation - would you take issue with someone being deported back to Jordan(like in the case above) ? Personally I feel palastinians and within Israel but especially in Gaza could be considered refugees - but did they not already get somewhere safe in Jordan if that’s the route they took to get to Ireland? Furthermore did they not get to safety in Turkey? So why should we entertain asylum claims from people who got their much needed safety but seek an upgrade on their prospects via illegal means and under bogus pretense… obviously the government and state bodies ,

Responsible for this have proven that they cannot/will not do it but the question I’m asking is why should we not do it?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535291#Comment_122535291

Actively discriminating against nearly 1 million Irish citizens in Northern Ireland in order to keep a few asylum seekers out would not seem the wisest of policies.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535662#Comment_122535662

I am not the one moaning.

Wait, are you the guy that was on about some made up story involving his "cousin's brother"?

creeper1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534485#Comment_122534485

What did he say that was so bad?

We don't know the context and I can surmise that they have been giving trouble and making demands.

He says they will lose privileges. They must have done something for that action to be taken.

Panthro

Hard border up North is not a solution. Still say we need to work with UK to protect around both islands. Anyone arriving illegally on a boat to UK mainland or Ireland, ship em back.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535663#Comment_122535663

I think the relationship between some anti-asylum and anti-immigration sentiment and possible mental health issues is well established, and I posted the same out of concern for people's welfare.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/pops.12034

https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Psychiatrists/Directories/Library-and-Archive/resource_documents/rd2010_Xenophobia.pdf

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2007-13595-012

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/00027642241240344

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/pops.12540 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/201801/the-psychology-racism

https://www.simplypsychology.org/xenophobia-fear-of-strangers.html

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797620929977

Stating that isn't intended to, or should, invalidate anybody's political beliefs. I think there's some, not all, otherwise very decent people who might espouse these views as a coping mechanism during a period of social, economic and political uncertainty. Likewise for some people embracing anti-immigration ideologies might be a risk factor leading to worse mental health outcomes.

Here's the boards thread on mental health supports around Covid-19 which I think might be helpful if some people are concerned about how they might be feeling.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058062109/mental-health-and-covid-19#latest

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535952#Comment_122535952

so I’ve looked at all bar the last 2, you sort of lost credibility with each link you posted for the following reasons:

1. The attached papers mostly reference immigration on the whole. I’m sorry but it has been clearly stated since the start of the thread that this conversation is around Ireland refugees policy not general immigration
2. The third last link you shared talks about racism. I think this point speaks for itself.
3. I suspect you didn’t post the titles as that would clearly show the above two points.
4. Many of the links shared refer to anxiety as the primary symptom. Are citizens wrong to be anxious?
5. Do you have access to all of those papers in full or are you depending on the abstract to inform yourself?
6. I can’t comment on the data as none appears to be present to back up the claims, but if you have access to some Of those platforms you might be able to show some tables or other data sets that confirm a link between people with mental illness(ideally not anxiety) and having an opinion on refugee policy.

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535952#Comment_122535952

A pretty disgusting argument even by your standards. So you think most of the people who have a problem with Ireland's immigration policy are probably suffering from mental illness?

I wasn't going to lower myself but these articles seem to suggest otherwise.

https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/why-depression-rates-are-higher-among-liberals

https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/03/how-to-understand-the-well-being-gap-between-liberals-and-conservatives/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/blog/unique-everybody-else/202103/personality-traits-mental-illness-and-ideology

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535952#Comment_122535952

I just got stupider from reading your post.

Lofidelity

A new campsite has popped up in Ranelagh

thomas 123

Tuam, Co.Galway getting the old “don’t worry, it’s families” line.
Local FG council man Pete Roche describes protesters as “rebels without a cause”.

Take from that what you will.

https://www.galwaybeo.ie/news/galway-news/irish-politician-asked-withdraw-four-9504311

Sn@kebite

If we call people mentally ill for not liking illegal immigration we could then say working class people are more prone to this mental illness due to their class. Where really working class/low income people are more impacted by housing costs and see illegal migrant men jump the queue, being put into 4-star hotels while natives struggle to pay bills/rent and homeless people rot in the streets while waiting years on a housing list.

The sentiments are more to do with economics and a noticing of the 2-tiered system the state is operating. Rather than just having a mental health problem.

Perhaps gaslighting people by acting like they're crazy looks clever in a sociology class, but outside of university social science departments it's just being a smug person who is not really contributing to these issues. Perhaps one of the many reasons social science isn't trusted very much.

sonofenoch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534447#Comment_122534447

Sounds poor tbf but if you or I moved to a new country with the just the shirt on our back what would we expect? it appears the Government are just counting numbers then wiping their hands of it ……not to mention those raking money in on the whole deal, throw in angry and pissed off native communities and it all equates to one big **** sandwich

RoyalCelt

I see comments a few pages back about groups of loitering men eye balling women. Why are these men not attending weekly classes on how women should be treated and respected like they do in Scandinavia? That's an essential policy in my book but would go against the "they're just the same as the rest of us" narrative we hear on repeat.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122536679#Comment_122536679

Not withstanding that yes they could go home, but everything she said is what the communities up and down the country are saying when the rumours start about ipas taking over a disused building. No facilities, no doctors, no services, no schools etc etc. Everything we say, all our concerns are justified, and will come to bare fruit over time.

How O'Gorman and his department haven't been pulled to task over this is beyond me.

Headshot

I'm very happy for North Tipp friends

https://tippfm.com/news/rathcabbin-not-ipas-accomodation/