Weird banking error and possible GDPR breach?

MicK10rt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176104#Comment_120176104

Thing is there is Jnr and senior and as stated the address is slightly different. If it was as easy as going in and playing "the fool" so to speak it would be easy for anyone to commit theft from the bank. I'm sorry but this is definitely the fault of the bank and lax attitude of the cashier. Probably a company wide thing listening to some on here.

Purple Mountain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176058#Comment_120176058

You're assuming that the address was a village/town when you say street number.

I live in a country area and approximately 20 houses have the exact same address, ie the same townsland.

Many of us share the same surnames too!

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176176#Comment_120176176

I dont think you mentioned this before ( re jnr/snr) - this is very relevant.

If jnr was on the bank account you should argue this with the bank - the cashier should have realised that the elderly man on front of them was unlikely to be the 'jnr'. If your dad said his correct address your ' slightly' different address shouldnt have come up.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176176#Comment_120176176

what outcome do you want?

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174373#Comment_120174373

That hasn’t been a crime in Ireland since 2001; you would be looking to assert a theft or fraud offence and neither would be probable because of the absence of intent. The OP’s claim against the bank for the funds in his account remains notwithstanding any purported withdrawal. There is no suggestion that the father dishonestly sought to appropriate the son’s money.

the issue if there is one is the inappropriate or possibly unlawful disclosure of private data.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175108#Comment_120175108

Well you were doing sort of OK up to this....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175121#Comment_120175121

You need to pay someone to tell you what you don't want to hear.... and the authorities always tell callers to submit a complaint, it's easier that way. But do come back and let us know how you get on.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176212#Comment_120176212

OP said the address was similar but different. So there is a difference but it's minor.

I too live in the country, most of us are well aware of people with the same address

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176619#Comment_120176619

I’ve already asked this and was ignored. Every reply there is additional information shoehorned in like a whodunnit mystery.

MicK10rt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179264#Comment_120179264

Well, for a start I'd like to see disciplinary action taken against the cashier. I'd like an apology, and I like to bank the out in writing exactly what has gone wrong and how they will insure nothing similar happens again. I would also like the comission to establish what if any data breach took place. So far the bank have fallen short on all of the above.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179519#Comment_120179519

Any disciplinary action against the cashier will be internal only. The cashier is entitled to their privacy as well. I'm sure you will get an apology and a promise it won't happen again

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179519#Comment_120179519

you think all that including investigation, internal fact finding, due process, reviews, appeals, judicial and data bodies all can have that done in the few weeks that the supposed event occurred?

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174166#Comment_120174166

If you're going to accuse people of making stuff up you're probably better off choosing topics where you actually know what you're talking about yourself. It's entirely possible to withdraw funds from an account you don't have a card for. Up until recently I had accounts in three of the main Irish banks and only had a card for one of them. Then I withdrew the money I had in Ulster Bank, without a card, just an ID and a signature, so now I'm down to two. But still one of them I don't have a card for.

Aurelian

Write a detailed formal complaint to the banks complaint procedure address and you might get a few hundred quid by way of apology.

micar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179519#Comment_120179519

Thank God I don't have to deal with people like you anymore.......bane of my life......so much of my precious time was wasted on this sort of rubbish.

"disciplinary action against the cashier".....are you for real?

MicK10rt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179982#Comment_120179982

Absolutely I'm "for real" this has caused a massive amount of stress in my household. If 8 done something wrong in my line of work I'd be hauled over the coal, and for very little. There needs to be accountability. The banking sector in particular have made many mistakes and it's only reasonable for them to be held to account when thet make further mistakes. They are a financial institution and they should adhere to strict guidelines to ensure monies are kept safe. I am livid over what has happened, my partner more so. We've now had to endure the stress of switching banks in Ireland, no mean feat and not a great deal to choose from I might add!

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182019#Comment_120182019

Absolutely I'm "for real" this has caused a massive amount of stress in my household.

A massive amount of stress? How so?

If 8 done something wrong in my line of work I'd be hauled over the coal, and for very little.

And if you make a formal complaint, the bank will then deal with it. Or are you looking for the teller to be publicly flogged to your satisfaction? Would your employer do that to you just to appease a disgruntled customer? (If yes, then do look elsewhere for a job!)

There needs to be accountability.

Have you made your formal complaint yet? How do you know that the bank haven't already undertaken measures to prevent a repeat?

The banking sector in particular have made many mistakes and it's only reasonable for them to be held to account when thet make further mistakes.

So you want the teller punished for the mistakes of over a decade ago?

They are a financial institution and they should adhere to strict guidelines to ensure monies are kept safe.

Agreed but it was the teller, not the bank who failed here.

I am livid over what has happened, my partner more so. We've now had to endure the stress of switching banks in Ireland, no mean feat and not a great deal to choose from I might add!

Would you go away out of that. Switching bank whilst an inconvenience is not a source of stress unless you make it so (and some of your posts on this thread would make me think that way!): https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/banking/switching_your_bank_account.html

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179519#Comment_120179519

Ya, that is not going to happen... no bank is going to discuss their internal procedures nor disclose the personal details of an employee as to do so would be in contravention of the very laws your are seeking penalise the person under.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182019#Comment_120182019

We've now had to endure the stress of switching banks in Ireland, no mean feat and not a great deal to choose from I might add!

Switching banks is easy-peasy. And what you should have done from the start.

You have to recognise that it was your father's decision to give you the same name, your decision to not change your name (even slightly) and to live in pretty much the same address, and your father's decision to claim to be you to the bank (add in the fact that Irish people seem to have some inexplicable allergy to having a national ID/number that would uniquely identify them, but that is outside your control). Yes, the cashier should have taken more care, but mistakes like this are going to happen from time-to-time with these underlying issues.

Ultimately, as long as there is a John Doe of 123 Fake Street and a John Doe of 124 Fake Street, your are going to run into confusing situations like this with any company.

Don't waste your time expecting the bank to do anything other than a basic apology. Now that you have changed banks, the issue is resolved.

HeidiHeidi

I have to say the OP/wife comes across as very easily wound up.

Yes, a mistake was made - but it involved a family member, and nobody is out of pocket, it was easily corrected once the mistake was noticed - the bank were never going to hand your money over to a stranger, since it was obviously the similar name/address that led to the confusion in the first place.

Looking for a public enquiry, and as someone else said above, the teller to be publicly flogged, seems to be me to be way OTT.

There are a lot of things to get worked up about these days, but for me this wouldn't be one of them.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120170290#Comment_120170290

Is it a formal joint account, in that that both your names are on the account? Or was it just an account in your name but which held funds to which your partner has a joint claim, but that's just between you and your partner, and the bank isn't aware of it?

If the account is in the name of John & Mary Smith, and the bank gave access to someone to a John Smith who was looking to access an account in his own name only, then that would seem to be an even bigger oversight than just mixing up two accounts in the name of John Smith.

If the account is just in your name, and your partner has no formal connection with it, it's hard to see grounds for complaint.

MicK10rt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182665#Comment_120182665

What kind of response is that??? So ultimately it's my dad's fault for naming me. Another fob off. There is only one mistake here, the bank/teller

MicK10rt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183011#Comment_120183011

Both names on account, my partner does not have my surname. So yes, a big mistake indeed. One I simply cannot understand. Bank have really failed here.

MicK10rt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182665#Comment_120182665

At what point did I say my dad claimed to be me? Your seem to suggest he did this on purpose? Have you bothered to read through the thread? My dad was simply trying to access his account, it seems the teller didn't follow basic procedure here. How she could mistake my dad's sole account for one which was a joint account, two different names on account, different surnames, different date of birth, different address, Jnr and snr denoting the difference in my name at least, seems like she missed many opportunities to do the correct thing. Unimaginable really.

Anyway the commissioner will conduct an investigation into the data breach. The bank I'm sure will conduct their own internal one, whatever that even means.

Purple Mountain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183726#Comment_120183726

Sounds like you have your answer so.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183685#Comment_120183685

When you give your child the same name as yourself, you know what you are doing and accept that, at times, there will be confusion as to which one is being referred to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183726#Comment_120183726

he had very few details on him going into the bank

He had very few details, but did know that he has a son with the same name and similar address.

the cashier trying to be helpful

You've certainly changed your tune since starting the thread and now wish to persecute the cashier for "being helpful"

While I wasn't there, so can't say exactly what happened, but I imagine her "helpfulness" was to try and assist your father by trying to locate the acccount via the customer profile. He told her something like "I'm John Doe of Fake Street" rather than specifying that he has a son with the same name living on the same street and to be careful, and she entered that into the system, found a "John Doe of Fake Street" and then opened the account belonging to that profile.

Nobody here is saying she didn't make a mistake. But you and your father certiainly made it difficult for her, and now you are looking to punish her for being helpful.

As you said, you have now changed banks (the obvious solution), so why you need to make a mountain out of a molehill is beyond me (and your expectation that the bank will make a mountain out of a molehill is unrealistic)

micar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185293#Comment_120185293

Because, he wants some €s out of it.

MarkR

Wouldn't the bank disclosing that a staff member had been disciplined itself be a breach of gdpr? You've made your complaint, the bank will apologize. You haven't been harmed by the situation, and are not out of pocket.

mykrodot

This is definitely a security and GDPR breach. The Bank would know this!

A data breach is: 'A breach of security leading to accidental/unauthorised disclosure of or access to personal data'

https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-08/190812%20GDPR%20Breach%20Notification%20Quick%20Guide.pdf:

I worked in financial institutions (banking) and was involved with the implementation of GDPR training when it was introduced. On 2 occasions it was breached when I was there and both involved serious ticking off for the staff member involved.

Both times a Data Protection breach had to be filed within 72 hours of the breach a detailed report outlining exactly what happened) to the Data Commissioner. One was a bank statement that was printed off but the previous statement on the printer hadn't been collected by another staff member and this was handed out instead.

Second incident was when the wrong letter was put in an envelope and sent to someone else, with customer details and balances. Serious apologizing is expected in these cases and the repercussions are serious too.

A data breach needs to be reported by the institution within 72 hours of the breach! This is the law and it is there to protect the consumer! https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/organisations/know-your-obligations/breach-notification#:~:text=From%2025%20May%202018%2C%20the,becoming%20aware%20of%20the%20breach.

MicK10rt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185617#Comment_120185617

Thank you. Probably the first post that is actually relevant to what has happened. The basement dwellers were out in force until now.

I spoke with the data commission and and now the bank has also supplied me with a reference number which they have given/received from the commission, so it finally looks as if they are doing something. Initially I was fobbed off my the local branch manager who seemingly was unaware, or at least let on that she knew nothing of the 72 hour time limit. It's obviously a breach of data, the bank have now admitted this, we've also been in contact directly with the bank DPo.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174568#Comment_120174568

Derogatory term for a low paid employee..

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174166#Comment_120174166

Not all accounts have a "bank card", some saving accounts don't and all you need is the account details and valid ID.

HildaOgdenx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185718#Comment_120185718

Probably the first post that is actually relevant to what has happened. The basement dwellers were out in force until now.

I went back to reread my own post just now, as I thought what I posted was relevant to what happened.

My suggestion, which others also made, was to use the complaints process of the financial institution. Also a practical suggestion was to make sure that your dad brought in account details with him in future.

I consider that was a relevant answer so your assertion above, is somewhat unfair. My post was made in good faith and intended to be helpful.

Anyway as things are apparently progressing now with the DPC for you, I will leave it at that.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120170586#Comment_120170586

If you read the OP, the father still had the docket from the bank with the OP's IBAN, and why would you think it unnatural for a son to talk to a parent about important life event like "Sh1t, €xx,xxx disapeared from my Bank Account", and the father responding "That's weird, I withdrew that exact same amount from my account"...

Staplor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185731#Comment_120185731

Yup, I was in the bank this week making a large cash withdrawal (when requesting in an online form they ask for name and account number), I rocked up, presented ID, they checked it against the list and presumably the account and off they went. They never asked for my bank card, done with an old school slip of paper.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183697#Comment_120183697

Some "Joint" account require both to sign for a withdrawl, others only need one.

irelandrover

..

Deeec

In original post the op said that both him and his father have same name and same address. Then he said his address was slightly different and that jnr is on his account. Then he said his partners name is also on the account. So basically it's not the same name and address at all which is very different to what the op first posted - bits keep being added. All this should have been said in first post op.

If jnr was on the account, slightly different address and partners name on account it does raise questions how the teller searched and found this account based on the info given by father.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174850#Comment_120174850

is your account a joint account? Is your wifes name also on the account? If so, this only makes things worse.

mickdw

I had a dormant account with ulster bank and when I went to reactivate it, I got a letter from bank stating account has been closed and funds issued to a cousin of mine with same surname. Ulster bank very quickly returned the few euro when I went to them. Don't know how it happened.

MicK10rt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186327#Comment_120186327

Because it was a synopsis. I'm weary about giving each and every detail out. I could easily write a detailed account but rather than post it here it has been sent to the data commissioner.

MicK10rt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186340#Comment_120186340

Yes, my partners different surname. Two different names, not married.

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186172#Comment_120186172

I didn’t say it was weird, I said if he was talking to his father about balance of his account why birch and moan when his father knows the balance of his account. Time for you to actually understand posts.

Purple Mountain

I'm off back to my basement now. Toodle pip, folks.

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120187710#Comment_120187710

Because he likely said something like "I checked the balance of my account recently and it was lower than I expected and there was a withdrawal for x amount" not "I checked the balance on my account recently and instead of it being y it was z" you don't have to disclose the balance to discuss it being different to what you expected.

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191111#Comment_120191111

That’s not what he said

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191218#Comment_120191218

Op didn't give exactly what he said, you've made the assumption he told his dad his balance based on I'm not sure what, I'm just saying they could easily have discussed the amount of withdrawal without disclosing the balance.

OP said

In the meantime I happened to be speaking with my dad and he noticed the sum of money being the same as what he had withdrawn a few weeks earlier.

and later

My dad copped the phuck up when I spoke to him and he recognised the amounts mentioned

No mention of discussion of balance just the withdrawal amount.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191218#Comment_120191218

this is what they said

 In the meantime I happened to be speaking with my dad and he noticed the sum of money being the same as what he had withdrawn a few weeks earlier.

that lines up with what cruizer01 said. no mention of actual balances.

joeguevara

Ok. Fair enough. Apologies.

MicK10rt

Update: the bank did eventually admit full responsibility and to my surprise we were given a fairly large good will gesture to bring the matter to a close. If anyone was in doubt as to the serious nature of the data breach, this should give you some clarity. The bank and data com took the matter very serious, but it did take more senior management to get involved before the full truth became known. For anyone who ever finds themselves the victim of a similar breach do take it very serious and make sure that these big companies are held to account.

robbie000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251049#Comment_120251049

So you got what you wanted, €€€ from the bank.

Poor cashier trying to do your father a favour and dragged over the coals for it.

I'm sure they're glad you have moved bank.