Government's secret plan to block repayment of illegal nursing home charges

SleetAndSnow · 30-01-2023 10:23am

Nothing in the morning papers, the journal posted an article at 12am basically and it's pushed down now, independent nothing, the Irish times similar to the journal. Interesting. David Cullinane was on newstalk at 7am alright I believe

10000maniacs · 30-01-2023 10:46am

We were living beyond our means and simply couldn't afford it. If there is stuff we can't afford, we shouldn't be doing it.

We were a country in receivership in 2010. As a country, we needed to smell the coffee.We didn't have a pot to pi$$ in.

horgan_p · 30-01-2023 10:54am

This predates 2010 by some fair amount.

And just because you're broke doesnt give you the right to rob or withold payment to someone you essentially overcharged.

deirdremf · 30-01-2023 10:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176423#Comment_120176423

I'm not sure if this is a písstake or not, it would be hard to fit more cliches into the same space!

10000maniacs · 30-01-2023 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176457#Comment_120176457

Where would you have got the money in 2010? Ask the IMF?

Floppybits · 30-01-2023 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176423#Comment_120176423

Is this post for real or is this going to be response of the government zealots to excuse this? Do you think this only started in the 2010? This was going on for years before 2010.

deirdremf · 30-01-2023 10:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175929#Comment_120175929

And not just any households, many of them would be FF households, who were used to being looked after by FF. Wouldn't it be a shame if they stopped voting for FF?

Floppybits · 30-01-2023 11:02am

Leo Varadkar is on the Pat Kenny show this morning, I wonder will Pat bring this up or will it just be a party political broadcast for FG?

deirdremf · 30-01-2023 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176465#Comment_120176465

Unless the law said otherwise, then this was illegal. Everyone involved must be shítting themselves, not just the pols.

Floppybits · 30-01-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176482#Comment_120176482

Oh I agree 100%. Anyone involved in this including those in the Public Services should all be accountable. Time for those in the Civil and Public Services to be more accountable and have the heads on the chopping block. If they want the pay then there are conditions that should come with that and one on those should be accountability. It seems like those operating in the HSE are a law onto themselves.

howiya · 30-01-2023 11:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176423#Comment_120176423

While I take your point this is exactly what was suggested by Fine Gael when they were in opposition in 2010.

'Fine Gael believes the law should be clear and that the State agencies should implement the law as it is, rather than as they would wish it to be if resources to meet statutory duties are not available, the legislation should be amended to reflect practice.'

This would seem to me to be a reasonable way out.

However as yesterday's article stated.. "Eight months later, now on the other side of the fence in government, Mr Reilly got his answer - and quickly changed his tune."

Spanish Eyes · 30-01-2023 11:34am

As a person whose parent (now deceased) was unfortunately in NH care for many years I am appalled by this. To clarify, parent paid for the care from their own independent means, didn't qualify for Fair Deal yada yada, so I have no immediate skin in the game.

Does anyone remember the scheme a number of years ago to make refunds of NH fees under certain circumstances? I seem to recall that there was something like that around twelve or so years ago? Maybe that is the scheme being referred to. I know from a previous life that many refunds were made, but is it the case that it was only those savvy enough to apply actually got the refunds or what?

Goes to show that unless elderly unwell have advocates, it seems they are fair game for exploitation and that does not just include NH fees either.

maccored · 30-01-2023 11:46am

is this story even on RTE's site? doesnt come up in a search

keeponhurling · 30-01-2023 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176454#Comment_120176454

Yes, that's a fair point.

I can actually understand why the government might have thought this policy a good or "pragmatic" idea. I'd have a small bit of sympathy.

But ultimately, it is illegal. And to make it worse it seems that the policy (at least indirectly) targeted the worse off, who cannot afford legal fees to take on the State. They are presumably the ones who needed the refund the most.

SEPT 23 1989 · 30-01-2023 11:55am

Leo sounded very nervous when this topic arose with Pat this morning

elperello · 30-01-2023 11:55am

David Cullinane was on just now with Claire Byrne.

Basically saying the government have questions to answer and we need more information.

Floppybits · 30-01-2023 12:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176749#Comment_120176749

Thought it was a very soft interview and Pat let him waffle away.

MrMusician18 · 30-01-2023 12:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176482#Comment_120176482

The charges were illegal but the strategy for managing claims was not.

It's a tried and tested method of legal strategy when a big dog with lots of resources but a losing argument goes up against an ordinary individual.

It was immoral and not behaviour becoming of an institution that is meant to have people's interests at heart.

30-01-2023 12:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175832#Comment_120175832

I fear the same.

dashoonage · 30-01-2023 12:37pm

Nothing to see here...move along...

10000maniacs · 30-01-2023 12:46pm

I speculate that the thought process in 2010 was, this is €12 Billion. Its a lot of money. We are going to hammer the people with mortgages that they cannot afford into the ground over the next few years. The IMF is forcing us to do it (hammer middle earners into the ground with stealth taxes). Lets ease their burden a bit by not taking another €12 Billion away from them and give it to people who to all intents and purposes have had their mortgages paid off years ago and done well out of the property market up to that point.

A bit cynical if this is indeed what happened, but necessary at the same time. The last thing the middle earners needed at the time was another €12 Billion hole in our deficit.

deirdremf · 30-01-2023 12:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176986#Comment_120176986

Given the little information available at present, it behoves us all to be extremely cautious in what we say and in how we discuss this matter, particularly in view of the fact that full information is not in the public domain.

That said, the information available points to a group of first-line pols and civil servants having been involved in kicking some of the most vulnerable people in the state for the past decade, and perhaps for several decades.

IMO this is potentially the largest story in our state's history, and - legal strategy or not - could destroy both of our remaining legacy political parties.

10000maniacs · 30-01-2023 12:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177001#Comment_120177001

I am just speculating what maybe the thought process was at the time in Government. Maybe there was more going on or less going on. I don't know as I was not in Government. I had a mortgage though at the time and I was feeling the pinch. I didn't even know this was going on until today.

But you have to look at the situation through 2010 eyes.