Six Nations 2023 - Wales v Ireland, Sat 4th Feb, KO 2:15PM - TV: VM1, BBC1, S4C

aloooof · 03-02-2023 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196240#Comment_120196240

If Coombes had been picked ahead of Conan I (in fact I'd say absolutely nobody) would be not on this thread throwing my toys on the floor kicking and screaming.

Having been on this forum for many's a year around 6 Nations time, I wouldn't be so sure to be perfectly honest.

aloooof · 03-02-2023 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196257#Comment_120196257

I actually think back-row is one area where the sides are a lot closer than they previously have been tbh (in large part thanks to the emergence of Hodnett, Kendellen etc). Certainly moreso than front-row or centre, say.

If it is an advantage to Coombes, it's one he's maximised.

Interested Observer · 03-02-2023 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196260#Comment_120196260

Fair point, go on there and search for something I said 4 years ago that might mildly be at odds with something I've said this week. It's your favourite passtime.

Former Former Former · 03-02-2023 2:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196260#Comment_120196260

Don't think there would have been too much objection if Coombes was picked ahead of Conan for the bench.

Equally, I wouldn't be shocked if it's actually Baird who's next cab off the rank and gets a run against Italy and Prendergast can't be that far back either.

stephen_n · 03-02-2023 3:01pm

Coombes performances have got him back in camp. What he does while he is there will probably decide if he gets into the match day 23. One things for sure, it’s the 6N and the coaches will pick what they feel is their strongest team. Apart from maybe the Italy game.

crossman47 · 03-02-2023 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195377#Comment_120195377

What are you on about. My point was nothing to do with Gatland or Farrell. I was expressing my opposition to a mindset on here that sees the Six Nations as somehow a testing ground for the WC. It is not. It is a competition well worth winning in its own right - its not as if we have won that many championships or Grand Slams.

aloooof · 03-02-2023 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196354#Comment_120196354

I don't know why you have such a bee in your bonnet over my posts of late, IO. But to be clear, I'm not saying you would. But I'm not sure how you can possibly say "absolutely nobody" would, given some of the posts we see on here around 6 Nations time.

OldRio · 03-02-2023 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196594#Comment_120196594

My point was about Farrell.

AbusesToilets · 03-02-2023 4:09pm

Aki on the bench worries me from the perspective that Wales are going to look to play their usual kicking/ pressure game. If Aki has to come on due to an in jury, we'll have someone in the back 3 who isn't used to dealing with garryowens. Biggar et al will target them all day long.

aloooof · 03-02-2023 4:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196916#Comment_120196916

If it's Ringrose (and it possibly would be) he's exceptionally good under the high ball to be fair to him.

All_in_Flynn · 03-02-2023 4:38pm

Slightly less confident given the absentees and I suppose you do have to account for the fact some players are coming in fairly cold with little to no Rugby recently.

That said, I just find it difficult to see how Wales get into this game. If they just bosh it up the middle all day then our pack will be delighted you'd imagine. Maybe our back 3 will have an off day under the high ball but that's it really. They are just a very limited side now.

Shehal · 03-02-2023 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196916#Comment_120196916

If we do our job it shouldnt matter as we should be the ones dictating the game.

Dubinusa · 03-02-2023 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197041#Comment_120197041

The lads coming in cold is a worry. Definitely not ideal.

Former Former Former · 03-02-2023 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197053#Comment_120197053

I mean, no matter how much we dictate the game, Wales are going to have possession at some stage.

TRC10 · 03-02-2023 4:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196916#Comment_120196916

I much prefer Farrell's approach of picking the most impactful players on the bench, rather than the hand-wringing Joe Schmidt method of picking player-X, who can cover position-Y, in the event of scenario-Z. And 90% of the time we just ended up with Earls at 13 anyway, so it was pointless.

AbusesToilets · 03-02-2023 4:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197080#Comment_120197080

While I agree with your point, I'd argue that Aki is not the most impactful player he could have picked. Any of JOB, Osbourne or Larmour would offer a better spark, if needed, and all are in great form currently. Murray is also a terrible pick imo, for the same reasons.

TRC10 · 03-02-2023 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197098#Comment_120197098

Aki made a match winning impact off the bench vs Aus in November. JOB is a good footballer who fit's into the Leinster/Ireland system well. But he's not a power athlete who can change a game. It's too big a game to give Osborne a debut. There would have been a good case for Larmour, but Aki is more proven at this level and is the kind of character you need in games like this.

Murray gives us the option of changing our game if the situation we find ourselves in requires it. See the England game last year, or the 2nd and 3rd tests v NZ. There's no law that says we must take JGP off on 60 minutes.

Jump_In_Jack · 03-02-2023 5:21pm

Researching some footage of the Welsh young players I didn't know much about, they are fantastic prospects,

Jac Morgan, Rio Dyer, and Joe Hawkins, I think the three of them will be mainstays in the coming years.

This is no bad Welsh team, they have said they are going to target Ireland in the setpiece, and they want a physical battle up front.

Their backs are better than they've been for a while. I reckon they have the better back 3, and their centres are physical specimens that can play and carry, and they have a half-back pairing that are at least equal to Ireland's pairing.

I think up front Beard and Wyn Jones will definitely have the edge physically over Ryan and Beirne if it gets into an arm wrestle.

Tomas Francis is a huge man, and the other front rows are solid.

Their back row is very interesting, Jac Morgan looks like a special talent, he's 5'11 and 102kgs, but he has such a low centre of gravity that he is a ball stealing machine at the braeakdown.

I seriously think that we are up against it here, and I was confident enough up until I started looking at these new guys.

I think we are facing a completely different team to the Wales that has been floundering for a few years, I'd say this Welsh side will be back to where they have been in the past, a bloody difficult team to beat. When they have been strong in the past we have always struggled with them, and despite Gatland only having a short time to get them sorted out, I think the players themselves, no matter how crap the regions have been playing, are as good as our players, man for man, and I think a lot of people in Ireland are daydreaming if they expect Ireland to win this without a huge performance.

AbusesToilets · 03-02-2023 6:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197133#Comment_120197133

We've given plenty of great players starts in big games, if they're good enough, they're good enough. Aki hasn't been playing to the same level he was in Nov, barely been playing at all since then.

Bobb Sapp · 03-02-2023 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197235#Comment_120197235

Top class post and research. Nice to hear a more balanced outside the Irish bubble view. And without some of the smacking arrogance of some on here.

TRC10 · 03-02-2023 6:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197363#Comment_120197363

60 minutes gone in the absolute cauldron that will be the Millennium stadium tomorrow. The game is in the balance. Who do you want coming off the bench at 12? Bundee Aki or Jamie Osborne.

If you say Osborne, you're lying.

sydthebeat · 03-02-2023 6:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197443#Comment_120197443

the answer to that question is Jimmy O Brien. 😉

naughtyboy · 03-02-2023 6:42pm

Would be Great to start with a win. But some of the bench for me looks average

Murray and aki especially could be a weakness

lawrencesummers · 03-02-2023 6:50pm

A lot of worry and to much respect being shown to wales.

They are gash.

They are in a battle against Italy for 5th place already, while we are in a battle with France for 1st place.

AbusesToilets · 03-02-2023 6:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197443#Comment_120197443

I'd be happy with Osbourne coming on, he's got ability out the nose and has shown he can play in big matches to date. I'd have zero issues with him coming on, be excited to see how he'd go.

ulsteru20s · 03-02-2023 7:27pm

The whole coombes debate (and all debates about players) is way too simplistic to me. Its not is Coombes better than Conan. Its ‘does Coombes have skills that are elite, and will we need them in a world cup game’?

His major skill to me is an ability to compress opposition defenses because of his carrying threat, and he is a good passer.

The closest analogue to me for that in the Irish pack is Furlong. So, yea if i was missing Furlong against someone like south africa or france, i would like Coombes in the team. However that would necessitate a shuffling of everyone else’s role sets. So, you have to figure out if that is worth it or not. Outside set pieces, numbers on your back are just that. Its what roles you can fulfill in the loose.

By the way, i know im going to get replies that Doris is a better tight carrier than Coombes. I disagree. A player does not have to be better at every single thing to be a better player. Anyway, id imagine in this scenario they’d play in the same back row.

Edit: the underlying problem with all that is that you need to play anyone a certain amount for them to just get used to international rugby. So, yea if you wanted that role set available for a world cup game, then you need to play coombes in games where it would require shuffling of roles and in the short term ireland would be a worse team.

aloooof · 03-02-2023 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197702#Comment_120197702

I see where you’re coming from with this but I’d argue:

I don’t think we can definitively say Ireland would be a worse team
And it’s not possible to cover all role sets from the bench; I think Coombes could absolutely be worth a spot in the 20 jersey tho.

Fwiw, I’d agree that he’s a better tight carrier than Doris, who’s a better loose carrier and running threat.

But he’s not competing with Doris. He’s competing for a bench spot.

ulsteru20s · 04-02-2023 4:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198294#Comment_120198294

I think they would be a worse team if they expected Coombes to just drop in and play the same role as POM/Conan or Doris. However, if you gave him time to bed in, yea i think he would be very useful as a sub.

Podge_irl · 04-02-2023 6:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120197235#Comment_120197235

This is no bad Welsh team

There are many bad Welsh teams.

Their half back pairing is not "at least equal" to Ireland's and isn't going to be unless Dupont discovers some Welsh ancestry.

Up against it 🙄

We might lose, its sport after all, but we are 6 points favourites away from home for a reason, and its cause Ireland are a significantly better team.

If we were playing this team with all these players 4 years ago you might have a point.

Jump_In_Jack · 04-02-2023 7:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120199983#Comment_120199983

You don’t seem to understand when I said THIS is no bad Welsh team. This team that is selected that we are against today are a good team. They have quality from 1 to 23, and at home with a back to basics approach and an injection of a few young stars in the making, they are certainly going to be a formidable challenge.

I can’t understand why Dan Biggar isn’t properly regarded as a top quality player, I’d rate him above Sexton on his day, he’s a commander, he’s younger and he’s the one that was selected as first choice for the Lions for a reason. Tomos Williams is a good scrum half with great sniping instincts, so any perceived superiority in the half-backs isn’t founded in reality in my opinion.

Don’t forget as well that Ken Owens, Adam Beard, Alun Wyn Jones as captain, and Josh Adams and Liam Williams were also selected for the lions above their Irish counterparts (Gatland of course made those selections though) so they have quality players without doubt.

They went to South Africa last summer and nearly won a series, many of the same players involved.

A six point handicap isn’t much, it’s going to be a big challenge, and Ireland will have to perform to a high level to break them down.

Six Nations 2023 - Wales v Ireland, Sat 4th Feb, KO 2:15PM - TV: VM1, BBC1, S4C

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