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2023 Irish EV Sales

1356710

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Why is it conservative? Many just don't like Tesla. I personally don't think they have any style at all, inside or out. They are good EVs though I will give them that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    I was a passenger in an ID4 taxi at Christmas, not only did I find it dull, it was far less spacious than my Tesla model Y

    if Tesla weren’t an option, I’d choose several EV,s ahead of the VW , Beit the Ioniq 5 , EV 6 or the Nissan Ayria



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭September1


    I think Tesla is not treating Irish market too good, some people are waiting really long for deliveries and plenty of car configurations are priced like 200 euro over grant limit. Meanwhile ID4 and ID3 can be bought without issues, good choice of models under limit, with quick finance and no hassle trade-in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 943 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    Every EV has its pros and cons. The ID4 is a great family Wagon. It's high up and easy to drive and has plenty of space for kids in the back. I think the Tesla Model Y targets a similar customer so it really comes down to which car you like more. The Model Y is probably a bit too sedan-ish for some buyers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Opinions != Facts 😉

    You prefer the Model Y, fair enough, doesn't make you right or other people wrong because there is no right or wrong answer

    Except diesel, that's definitely the wrong answer

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,771 ✭✭✭✭fits


    We decided to have a look around for something with a bigger boot than our Id.3. Like I’ve said repeatedly I really really want an estate.


    We tried the ioniq 5 and ioniq 6 today. They’re great cars and better value than vw equivalents at the moment. But the interest rates are a real turnoff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,704 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    What's your local credit union offering? Mine does 5.25% for EVs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,771 ✭✭✭✭fits


    I’m not a member of one but have heard of good rates alright. I’m not sure everything will add up for us to trade in the ID.3 before the three years are up. It’s just the flipping boot!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 943 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    Buy a Polestar. It's not an estate but the boot is a nice size with space under the floor and a frunk in the front. A single motor version is 51k (3.9% apr) and you'd get one in about 2 weeks. I bought one and it has more spec on it than my wifes ID4 Pro Business which was a lot more money.

    A Tesla Model Y is also a great option. 47k for a standard car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,771 ✭✭✭✭fits


    I had a chance to look at the polestar last week and didn’t! Annoyed now. The MG5 was there too and I just felt it was too basic.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,155 ✭✭✭✭Berty


    The problem with Tesla when you're trading in is the fact you either sell private or get a low ball trade in value off them. You can't shop around.

    I got lowballed, eventually got 13,500 for my car and Tesla offered 7,850, VW 12,000, Hyundai dealer 9,000, other Hyundai dealer 13,500, Cupra 13,500.

    Went with a Tucson PHEV, would have gone Tesla model Y but not with that trade in value, also no interest in private selling. What surprised me about buying a car though were two things.


    1. The salespeople don't pounce on you when you walk into a showroom, mostly I'd to go asking for one.

    2. Salespeople seemed to be not very Knowledgeable of their own cars. Basic things you should know about their own cars, Kia guy calling the Sportage a Jeep was odd. I know what he meant but still.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Trades in values differ because the price your buying e.g copra offering you 13500 clearly have bigger mark ups.


    you need to look at the cash cost not the trade in


    how much cash did you add to the Tucson vs Tesla.


    and how much extra will the Tucson cost in maintenance etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,771 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Slept on it and woke up thinking there’s nothing out there that’s quite right for us available on the market. We will hold off another year I think. I don’t really want an suv or anything that’s less efficient. Ioniq5 is probably closest to what we are looking for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,610 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    I got an excellent trade in from Tesla but that seems to be the exception to be fair. Useless salespeople is far from a new thing - been the norm since I'm buying cars, and I'm old! I remember years ago being very interested in buying a 2.5L manual petrol Mondeo - practically sale proof. All the guy had to do was come back with a trade in value for my own and I'd have been good to go. Even followed up with him but still waiting for that call since 2008....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Why not just sell privately?, Tesla hold their value very well



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭mjp


    Bought an ioniq 5 last month and delighted with it. Have say the rates on offer by garages are gone through the roof this past while and ecb hikes are hitting them badly according to car salesman. Ended up going to local credit union who I never dealt with before and got offered 4.99% rate and allow me push loan out over 7 years and 5yrs was max elsewhere.

    The increase in finance rates will put off a lot of would be buyers unless they shop around in the likes of CU's however long them rates will last.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,771 ✭✭✭✭fits


    We have 0% on our ID.3. Those days are gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭ted1




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    Not so sure that will continue with the serial price cuts. Prices cut again in the US this week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    My experience of car salespeople is they'd usually struggle to figure out the number of wheels on a car, let alone know any details about them

    I've encountered some who were fairly decent and some twits, seems to vary around by brand a bit

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I was coming up to a T junction earlier in my ID.4, another one comes the other way and a third one came out of the side road, couldn't have done that better if we'd organised it 🤣

    This is on top of the 5 others I saw today, all in the one section of North Dublin

    Those poor workers in Zwickau must not be getting any sleep 🤔

    EDIT: Also saw a Polestar 2, lovely looking car. I would have wandered over for a closer look but I'm not sure the owner would appreciate me drooling all over the car 😁

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭brownej




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Donedeal story in Irish Ties today

    “Electric vehicle registrations

    The share of new EV registrations continues to grow with 9,303 in Ireland, representing an almost 50 per cent increase compared to the same period last year.

    EVs and hybrid cars now account for 44.6 per cent of new cars registered in Ireland. This compares to just 18 per cent in 2020 and 6.2 per cent in 2018.

    The boost in EV registrations in the past three years is now starting to trickle into the used car market with the first quarter marked by “a big boost in the stock of used EVs listed” with about 1,500 adverts on the platform, almost triple the number of listings compared to any three month period in 2022.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 943 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    ID4 and Polestar owner here. Both great cars. The Polestar gets a lot of looks. I really like the look of the Model Y. I find myself staring at them a lot. It's something I would consider as an ID4 replacement in the future.

    I pulled into an Ionity in my Polestar the other day and two other Polestars followed me in. Rare occurrence as this was in the South East.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 943 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    I remember telling an Audi salesman that the A1 was being discontinued. He patronised me for about 10 minutes telling me I was wrong. Low and behold...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'm not surprised, this is a company which thinks it makes sense to have the odd numbered models as combustion and even numbered ones electric

    Something which only Audi fans will bother to know before looking one up


    They're also keeping the E-tron in the names of the EVs for the uninitiated 🤦‍♂️

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 943 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    I am no longer a fan. Poor after sales and their EVs are too expensive for what you get.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    As naming systems go it does make a lot of sense. Letter to indicate style, number to indicate size, odds/even to split power train. You immediately have an idea what an Audi A2 would be if you've any familiarity with the brand. If your not the kind of person who pays attention to them then you wouldn't care and be shopping for an A2 based on review anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Should be good news for buyers, although still waiting to see evidence of lower prices for EVs and in general used car prices are up on last year

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭innrain


    EVs and hybrid cars now account for 44.6 ...

    A useless category. Better said petrol cars are at about 50% for the last 5 years while diesel dropped from 50% to 25%, the space being taken by plug-in cars.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 943 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    Where is hydrogen on that graph? I thought it was the future of the automobile according to my YouTube sources in the comments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,423 ✭✭✭✭josip


    If new EV sales continued to increase 50% yoy, then in 5 years time nearly all new cars sold would be EV.

    Unlikely to happen and we should expect that 50% to taper off, but the trajectory is good.

    As long as the oil companies aren't allowed fool the gullible with "self charging petrol cars".



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Next year, they definitely will be on sale in numbers next year and are the future. Just need to figure out the production of green hydrogen, storage for it, tankers for transport, and then build a network of filling stations from scratch and then subsidise the fuel by 80% for the price to be competitive with EVs.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,423 ✭✭✭✭josip




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭innrain


    There is a new kid on the block. e-fuel - the new horse the oil companies bet on. Hydrogen can be counted in the same category although the main selling point of the synthetic fuels is net zero.

    net zero, along with self-charging are just made up, to confuse people, especially UoFB graduates, where the second law of thermodynamics is forbidden



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I don't think there's value in applying the s-curve to the whole fleet as cars have a 15-20 year lifecycle. It's more useful to think of it in terms of new purchases.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Couldn't have said it better myself, you'd think any basic economist would see that e-fuels are never going to be cost competitive with anything

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 492 ✭✭PaulRyan97


    Just pointing out too that since SIMI doesn't offer a MHEV Petrol/Diesel classification, they instead get registered as Petrol/Hybrid or Diesel/Hybrid.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,629 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Top Gear did a piece on Efuels recently. Apparently they work by using carbon that's already in the atmosphere and mixing it with something that doesn't emmit carbon when burned, releasing just the carbon that is already there so as long as the process is powered by clean fuel it's carbon neutral.

    The positives were

    • Can operate in a standard petrol engine
    • Possibility to be carbon neutral - as above

    The downsides were

    • Not as efficient as petrol
    • £10/liter

    I wouldn't be interested personally if this is true



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Lot of ifs there which probably won't happen, remember it isn't economically viable to produce green hydrogen, can't see "green" e-fuels working out


    Apparently the vehicles have to be able to detect non green e-fuels and refuse to work, gonna be great to see the software hack that bypasses that system

    I saw some article projecting the cheapest they could get to was €3.20/l. I think that was in Germany which generally has slightly cheaper fuel prices than here


    They're really only going to be useful for performance cars, probably why Porsche and Ferrari were so keen on them

    That's fine as far as I'm concerned, don't think all the supercars in the world would cause as much environmental impact as the annual diesel sales in one year

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    The downside is that the production of e fuels use agricultural land and that converting the land from producing crops from supplying the food chain to fuel which increases the price of basic food and more



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Sounds a bit like the UK plan for clean aviation fuel, just need half their farmland (which already isn't sufficient to feed their population) to supply it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/28/scientists-uk-aviation-net-zero-ambitions-half-farmland-double-renewable-electricity



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    One time a while back I was looking into what it would take to go fully off grid


    I worked out that there was 1,200kWh which I couldn't meet by solar so I wondered if I could use a generator powered by biofuel

    That would take roughly 600 litres of fuel which I'd have to produce from plant oil


    Luckily there's some handy online resources around DIY Biofuel production like below

    So I'd need something like 0.5ha if using rapeseed oil (1190l/ha). That's 1.2 acres in imperialism units

    Renting land seems insanely variable, could be anything between €20 and €200 per year 🤷‍♂️

    Then I need to invest in some equipment to make the dirt into crops and then crops into oil and then oil into fuel. Because I'm aiming for carbon neutral biofuel, I'll need to invest in some solar panels and batteries to power this equipment. I guess I could use biofuel to do this, but then I need more land. On the plus side I've got some handy space to install ground mounted solar

    I'll also need to invest in some carbon offsets to account for the carbon release from tillage, so yet more land to plant some trees

    Not sure I'll be able to beat €1.50/l at this rate 😂

    Also I'm supposed to pay excise duty on the fuel I produce, so any idea of cheap fuel pretty much flies out the window


    Okay, fair enough an actual professional farmer could probably achieve better economies of scale than a jackeen playing at farming 😅

    But let's take the case of a regular diesel car. Assuming 5l/100km and annual mileage of 12,000km you'd again need 600 litres (that worked out nicely 😁)

    The ~15,000 diesel cars sold so far this year would add 7,500ha of biofuels production land. That's only 0.2% if Ireland's useable agricultural land, but remember that's only for 3 months of one year. After 20 years you'd have used up 16% of Ireland

    Oh, and that's not bothering to count in all the commercial vehicles, boats, aircraft and construction vehicles which would also be looking for biofuels and all have much higher consumption, pretty soon our entire island would be given over to producing biofuel crops


    So yeah, not really seeing them as a winner

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    I think the Polestar is effortlessly cool and no doubt more luxurious inside than the Tesla model Y but it was a little pricey for me once Tesla dropped their prices



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Isn't that bio-fuels. E-fuels use electricity to capture CO2 from the atmosphere and combine with H20 to build the fuel. Their are many issues with e-fuels but they at least "solve" the land use problem of renewable biofuels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭innrain


    What is the surface of solar needed to get you the 1.2 MWh?

    The idea of synthetic fuels is not new. Gasification was a process invented around 1840. Before natural gas was introduced some cities distributed this woodgas, centrally produced. More here. A more modern approach is the syngas which again not new. Basically humans want to do in minutes what nature does in millions of years. That costs energy and the instant release of by-producs can harm the environment. It bugs me that they name this synthetic fuels e-fuels as it is clear meant to fool people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭quokula


    There are plans to use it in Formula 1. I could see it being produced in low volumes for sports cars, classics and the like in the future, but it's not going to be viable for the mass market. It will serve its purpose for the fossil fuel companies in the meantime to spread uncertainty and doubt and convince people to delay jumping to electric, now that it's getting harder to keep perpetuating the myth that hydrogen is just around the corner.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 943 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    I like the look of the Model Y. Strangely I'm not drawn to any other Tesla models. I think it's the overall scale of the car. It has a lot of road presence. Are they reliable? What are the pros and cons with Tesla?



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