Peter O'Mahony

Sean O'Brien is the best backrow we've ever produced, not even a debate in my mind.

I look at Doris and I see a much better coached Ferris, but similar in many regards. All three along with VDF and Wallace are the all time great backrows. O'Mahony probably is in that bracket, maybe I'm being unfair, I just think the others were / are more consistently top drawer or could make game changing interjections at the highest level of the sport.

Wouldn't be hard to convince me otherwise, POM obviously a great and an Irish legend.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321810#Comment_120321810

this 100%, i constantly hear about how ireland need to pick a heavier pack when playing france/SA etc,. in a way its almost the exact opposite should be done, matching them physically is never gonna work so picking skillful forwards that can execute the normal gameplan should be the order of the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321920#Comment_120321920

david wallace had twice the pace and similar power tbh, i think he was on the wane by the time SOB came around though.

both suffer in terms of the 'greatest' conversation from playing most of their careers in a position that didnt actually suit them that well though seeing as neither were much of a breakdown threat and relied massively on others (BOD and Darcy mainly) for that. anyway VDF is a better 7 than both of them so he should be in the mix for greatest back row

I'm a huge Wally fan, still gutted for him from that tackle from Tuilagi that ended his World Cup, but he didn't have anything close to the pace of O'Brien.

That's what made SOB a freak, incredibly fast, incredibly strong and he was an utter bully on the pitch. He was an exceptional openside and a monster at the breakdown. We obviously have extremely different memories of him as a player.

cuttingtimber22

SOB blew hot and cold - bit reckless at times. Wally was consistently good

Former Former Former

Wallace had plenty of pace but never had the power of SOB, I'd have said Ferris was maybe the only back row we've had in the pro era who could match SOB for strength.

All_in_Flynn

POM is still worthy of the number 6 shirt but he's coming under increasing pressure I think. Ryan Baird for me looks like he's getting to the point where he's going to make it very difficult to leave him out.

If he plays the big knockout games for Leinster at 6 and continues to progress then I can see a scenario where he comes into the Irish side for the world cup. I'm very excited about him from a Leinster/Ireland perspective. He's a potential game changer.

stephen_n

I don’t think POM is under any real pressure at present. His form in the last 18 months for Ireland has been pretty excellent. Our backrow is perfectly balanced at present, all 3 compliment each other very well. Baird might take Conan’s spot though.

pickarooney

SOB was a far better jackal than VDF will ever be. He out-McCawed McCaw when they faced off. He was a destructive carrier and a decent link player who could cover all three back row positions.

But he was a penalty magnet and probably turned over more ball than he won over his career.

I think I'd put Heaslip ahead of him, overall.

sprucemoose

not to derail the thread but...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322726#Comment_120322726

nah wallace was regularly one of the fastest players in the ireland squad and was munsters fastest player for a number of years. SOB was probably up there too but wallace definitely had pace, he played on the wing a few times for munster although that mightnt count seeing as denis leamy played 13 for a few games around that time too

i wouldnt have said SOB was much of a turnover threat tbh though but wallace wasnt exactly known for it either

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322786#Comment_120322786

wallace had a few years in the wilderness after the 2001 lions tour but post 2006 he was pretty consistently great

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322805#Comment_120322805

id think they were similar but if not they definitely were pretty close. id think wallace was a bit smarter in his running too

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120323087#Comment_120323087

i dont recall what game v NZ youre talking about tbh? i do agree that he was suited to all 3 backrow positions but i think 6/8 were a better fit for him. combined with POM and heaslip though they all complimented each other well

leakyboots

Wally had buckets of pace, much faster than O'Brien I'd have thought. Played wing and centre for us at various stages.

Amazing athlete, one of our finest

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120323277#Comment_120323277

Wally was a freak athlete but I think you have to consider the levels they played at. Both test lions and internationals but one more successful and impactful at the highest level. Wally's Irish teams were never a real threat to top test level sides for example, sob won european cups, six nations and lions tours. He did a bit of everything, for those who say he didnt win turnovers, I think of his Clermont semi final turnover on his own try line to win the game. He was only a young lad then

TomsOnTheRoof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120323277#Comment_120323277

There was that time against Wales where he ran down Shane Williams. The man had bags of pace.

Former Former Former

So, Peter O'Mahony or David Wallace?

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120323862#Comment_120323862

Wallace all day

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120323520#Comment_120323520

In terms of honours, Wally won a Grand Slam. SOB did not. All in - two very good players.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120323980#Comment_120323980

I dunno. Wallace in his prime was an absolutely amazing player. POM might never have hit the heights that Wallace did, but he's been doing it pretty consistently for a decade, which Wallace did not (injury being a big part, I know).

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324133#Comment_120324133

I think he was one of the best of his generation, maybe slightly underrated but again objectively Ireland's two greatest world cup victories Australia and France and the Joe Schmidt era of success, capped with the lions success. I just think the levels were different.

I’d probably have SOB ahead of Wallace but wouldn’t be a huge amount in it, both incredible players.

Both would have absolutely flourished in the current Irish team and the way we play - our ability to put them two into space would be something to see.

leakyboots

I think Wally is probably the finest athlete we've produced, could do it all. Both him and SOB were world class.

I'd take Wally over POM but they're playing in different positions anyway so a bit of a moot comparison

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324267#Comment_120324267

i think the stupid and needless bad after the france game tarnishes that a bit though

and the pissing on someone, unforgivable imo

but to bring this back to POM, i think what helped both Wallace and SOB was the balance of the backrows they played in. hence why i think a POM, VDF and Doris backrow works much better than one with Doris at 6 and Conan at 8. There's probably a bit of truth in that Doris has a slightly different role at 6 but i think the overall balance is more important. I'd be keeping POM in the team for now but if he has to be replaced I'd be looking at someone like Beirne or maybe Baird rather than Conan. Having an 8 like Conan (or Coombes even) on the bench is a good option since they obviously cover 8 for injuries but cover 6 aswell if a change up of the balance is needed. If 6 gets injured you bring on/move someone like Beirne to 6 and it keeps a similar backrow setup going. 7 is the one out of the 3 that has less cover but POM can fill in if needed and id even argue beirne could jump in there in an absolute emergency

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326448#Comment_120326448

Well I never made a habit of judging people beyond what they do on the field as I'm in no position without knowing them. I mean Ive forgiven people for punching me in the face or stealing from me but you can't forgive one stranger for pissing on another stranger.

Anyway this is getting far off base now. POM is the best backrow lineout operater I've ever seen and impossible to replace in that aspect.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327777#Comment_120327777

Right, he so often delivers for Ireland that I'm sure coaches can bank on him, and then he occasionally makes impossibly significant contributions (the ball he plucked out of Ben Smith's reach in 2018, another couple of turnovers in that match, etc). But his line out work is a cut above, solid as a rock and a regular stealer of opposition ball such that I suspect he sometimes forces teams into playing a more conservative line out game than they'd like. To paraphrase what Joe used to say about him: leadership, experience and the line out.

stephen_n

Don’t have stats so this is purely speculation. Has POM been stealing less ball in the last 18 months for Ireland. Maybe we are not competing much on opposition ball but I don’t remember many big steals from him more recently. He used to seem to have 1 or 2 per game.

pickarooney

Everyone is stealing less ball this last while. I'd like to see stats but the entire French team seems to be seriously hamstrung in this area due to clamping down on hands on floor, off feet etc.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328670#Comment_120328670

He got one straight away after being brought on in the Scotland match if I remember right. He also made the line-out where we were struggling more secure

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327777#Comment_120327777

to your first point: yeah its indefensible imo. i cant really understand how it wasnt a bigger story at the time either tbh

second point: thats probably true to be honest, i cant really think of another backrow (in recent memory anyway) that was/is as good. anthony foley was pretty decent and harinordoquy was good but i cant really think of anyone else that comes near POM

Buer

Julien Bonnaire was as good as POM at least. He would be a massive threat whenever a province faced Clermont. He ended up being brought in by the French national team as a line out coach a few years ago. Both would be superb back row jumpers. Juan Smith was excellent too.

In terms of Irish rugby, Simon Easterby was a brilliant back row jumper. Completely undervalued within Ireland probably as a result of not playing for a province. Quinlan was also great in the air.

pickarooney

Fulgence Ouedraogo was a fantastic lineout operator from the back row. Not sure if you can count Woki whose predominantly a back row but tends to play lock with France.

Interested Observer

I would have said plenty of times down through the years that POM should be dropped (and tbh, I still think there's been a valid case for it at certain points in time), but it's clear enough our backrow is functioning pretty well at the moment and there's not a huge argument for change.

I think in the past, the backrow of POM/VDF/Stander just didn't work over long enough periods of time. It could have been because the team was in a bit of a malaise, it could be because Doris is a very different (and honestly, better) player than Stander, it could be because VDF's carrying has improved year-on-year, but the balance in the backrow is there at the moment between POM/VDF/Doris. There's a good mix of skills that seem to complement each other, and we're continuing to win games.

BoardsMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339092#Comment_120339092

Not an aficionado like some on here, but as good a lineout operator as Easterby was, my lasting memory of him is underwhelming everywhere else but lineout, and keeping some excellent back row players out of the team courtesy of Eddie having a particularly soft spot for him.