Is housing really that bad or is it just another hyped up 'crisis'?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280548#Comment_120280548

Then why are LL exiting the business so fast that the government bought in an eviction ban.

Not in Leitrim town in Limerick.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280603#Comment_120280603

The house would not have averaged that. Rent from 2011-2016 would only be half that. As well every LL did not buy houses in 2011.

33% of any profit goes in CGT. Like a good few here you skipped economics going to school

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280251#Comment_120280251

The landlord is doing well if they only spent 143 euros on maintenance a year for the last 7 years. I'm assuming you think maintenance is the only expense when it comes to providing a rental.

You were paying between 178 and 240 euros a month for a room, half of which is consumed by taxes. For 4 euros a day were you expecting the landlord to provide dinner and a turn down service?

While standards should be met to ensure comfortable living conditions for tenants you are not paying a landlord for the amount of effort they put into managing a property. You are paying them for the use of an asset worth a significant amount of money. The type of property, its location and its condition at the start of the rental generally dictate what the rent is worth.

Montage of Feck

Well I don't own a house.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280436#Comment_120280436

You haven't a bulls notion of a clue what you are talking about. For someone called NumbersLad, you're not very good with numbers if you reckon a landlord has 98% to 99% revenue to themselves before tax.

Yep, that's why landlords are fleeing the market in record numbers, because they are getting too much money for sitting on their hole doing nothing.

I've rented, and subletted, 7 years in this house.

In that time, about 120k has passed through my hands, to the landlord. As I'm subletting, thankfully only about 15- 20k of it was my money.

If you paid €15k over 7 years = 15,000 / 7 = €2142 per year = €178 per month.

If you paid €20k over 7 years - 20,000 / 7 = €2857 per year = €238 per month.

Yep, your landlord was really robbing you eh. Or were you robbing those you were subletting to?

Allinall

Some people really don’t have a clue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280849#Comment_120280849

I agree a shortage will inflate the cost of a commodity like a rental property, but there is still price variation depending on property type, location and condition. Dublin is always going to demand a premium due to its population and generally higher wages.

I don't recall mentioning property tax but just because a cost has to be paid if the house is occupied or not does not mean its unfair for the landlord to pass the costs onto the tenants.

What work exactly is it the landlord has you doing?

BattleCorp

Will ya stop for God's sake.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120281008#Comment_120281008

It sounds like you have been incredibly lucky then.....I have no idea why someone would be ashamed about having to pay what is required to get somewhere to live...it's just the way things are.

700 euro for a good room in a good area in Dublin is now considered extremely good value (and pretty rare I would guess!). That is where things are I am afraid.

I consider myself extremely lucky to own my own home in Dublin. But by Christ it took a lot of saving and living on one or two kips with some loopers to get the money together (I rented from 18-34ish mostly in Dublin). I don't envy any younger people trying to buy now.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280786#Comment_120280786

You are incorrect economics is taught to leaving cert level at secondary school. Business ( not business studies a third level course) would have a basic economics taught in it. Obviously it all passed over your head.

Not every LL bought a house in 2011. But I will humour you. We will assume that the investor did not have to borrow to buy the house.

From 2011-2015 on average he might have had an unrented period of a month per year and a rental of 1.2k/ month so an yearly rental of 12k. Give him 1k in expenses per year. That leaves 11k. The vast majority of LL pay tax at the higher rate so his annual return would be 5280 or about 21k in 4years.

From 2015-2019 an average rent of 15k/year.All Data from the exponential rise in rents is that the LL exiting are those with lower rental rates. 60K gross minus 6 k in expenses leaving about 26k after tax

From 2019 to last year the eviction ban during COVID ment LL could not raise rents. Not only that some tenant's took it as an opportunity not to pay any rent as they could not be evicted. The ban was different to the present one in that. But we assume that this LL did not have this issue and the tenant's paid so we will allow another 45k in rental income minus 5k in costs leaving 19.2k after tax.

So the LL overall yield after tax is 56.2k or 4683 euro per year.

Now on the sale. You are giving a sale price of 370kminus 140 gives a profit before costs and tax of 230 k.

Selling fees for auctioneer 1.5%+vat and advertising 8k. Stamp duty on put have 1400 euro. Solicitors fees buying and selling inc land register, searches etc 5k. Engineer at purchase 500 euro. Total about 15k. That from gross profit leaves 215k.

CGT is 33% or 71k leaving a gross profit of 145k. Yes this investor would have made a substantial profit but not to the level.you imagine.

If he invested in any investment in 2011 he could expect such a return. Land has probably quadrupled in price since 2011. Commercial property the same. Both have the advantage that the government is not regulating them to death. In either of these investments he could remove 750k in equity without paying tax.

If the investor has put the money into a pension fund between 2011+2015 and availed of tax relief at the higher rate his return would be away higher than that as well.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120281008#Comment_120281008

You gotta love the irony of this lad. Telling us landlords are making money hand over fist with no effort. Yet he has contributed 15000 to a total of rent of 120,000 over the last 7 years which means he probably charged each of his sublets 26,000 to 35,000 over the same term. He had others subsidising his rent for the last 7 years and I doubt he put much effort in either.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120281081#Comment_120281081

You say that imo until you are in that situation. Not sure it would be easy holding down a full-time job while bouncing around homeless hostels thinking you would be fast tracked to a house but hey you do you.

I know there are thresholds etc for HAP which I would say a lot of people living/working in Dublin etc would exceed?

Like I said already realistically not everyone is going to get some bargain of a house share etc when the demand is so high.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120281724#Comment_120281724

As I said you skipped economics. I actually made a mistake LPT is not allowable against tax so it's a double whammy you lay it on after tax income on the house.

So the 225 actually in Limerick they add on the 10% that council's cam aff on so it's nearly 250 we round it to 500 before tax.

Government gives tax breaks accross the business spectrum. As I pointed out you can take 750k as an individual out of a company or sole trader business or 1.5milluon as a couple. Residential letting is excluded.

I gave a month a year as alan average example, in 2011/12 or even '13 it could have been a full year. It's an average accross the sector. Rents were dropping. Unless you were reducing rental income or substantially below the average you did not have full occupancy over that period even in Dublin.

For a poster claiming you only read half the post you gave a detailed response.

TBH, you are only a re reg I suspect. It I should not be reacting to your rubbish. You really should have brought an apartment when they were cheap.

Let me tell you a little secret, Limerick has the highest disposable income after Dublin. If you are willing to work you can still buy decent apartments for sub 150k.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120281724#Comment_120281724

What demands are landlords making of the government to protect their investments?

What work does your landlord have you doing on his behalf?

Why do you fleece those you sublet to, why are you not paying an equal share of your rent?

The public requested a more professional rental market, the government supported that by creating new standards and red tape. This has created further costs in providing a rental property and as with any other business increased costs are passed onto the customer.

You have taken a very scattered approach to your posts but you have failed to back any of claims with hard facts.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291463#Comment_120291463

Very selective response.

It's just a bit rich you having a go at landlords for the exact thing you claim to do yourself. You have the best room in the house and pay the least amount of rent. In my view that puts you below landlords, you're a middle man that benefits from providing no effort at all, at least the landlord owns the property and are responsible for upkeep.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291623#Comment_120291623

They used be called middle or gombeen men.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombeen_man?wprov=sfla1

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280283#Comment_120280283

I live in a commuter town that is 60miles from Dublin City Centre and the cost of any 4 bed detached in an estate is going for 450k. There's a new estate coming to the market on Tuesday and the prices could be higher. A 3bed semi-d is 350k currently. A couple on average wages (approx 100k) would struggle at these prices. Working people are being priced out of the market.

There is currently 1, yes 1, house available to rent in this town as of right now. Its an old, small, terraced house for €1750 per month. Absolutely crazy! There is a crisis in both sectors!

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291990#Comment_120291990

But 100k is a good wage for a couple. There are many people working in the town in hospitality, service industry who wouldn't be on anything near 50k. But as you say a larger deposit would then be needed. It's just ridiculous that the people who make the town so successful, and it is a successful and vibrant town, would struggle to buy a home in it.

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292025#Comment_120292025

A 2 bed apartment is 250k and a 3bed duplex is priced at 300k. So not exactly cheap either. Those are the prices in one of the new estates.

From having a quick look on daft right now you'd get a 2 bed apartment (second hand) from around 200k and there are some cheaper 2 and 3 bed houses in the 2 to 300k ranges. There is one 1 rental property available in the town so renting is not really an option. But paying a mortgage would definitely be cheaper than renting so that would be an option if it suited your circumstances.