Liam Brady: An Irishman Abroad (RTE One)

Say Your Number

Just started a few minutes ago

Say Your Number

Liked Szczęsny saying he was cold and the staff were afraid of him.

Say Your Number

Wouldn't blame him if he did a Harry Kane on that penalty in the circumstances.

FrancieBrady

Completely changed my view of him, which was of a dry, reserved and remote man.

Comes across as an affable genuine man. Would love to have a pint with him, similar taste in music too.

Say Your Number

Not a bad last kick to have.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238300#Comment_120238300

He could hit a ball, no doubt about that.

kevthegaff

Jack Charlton touch of class

patob

Brilliant documentary, really enjoyable, great old footage and great to hear him reveal a bit of his personality and interests. The Italian stuff was great too as Serie A was the best league around that time. The Jack Charlton story was a brilliant and touching finale. Fair play Liam, perhaps our greatest football export.

DaithiMa

RTE get a lot of stick and deservedly so, but that was a brilliant documentary, fair play to them. What a player and what a career he had.

dublin49

hard to explain how exciting his career was for an Irish football fan back then.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238347#Comment_120238347

And Charlton - our greatest import.

breezy1985

Came across as a pretty smart guy. Certainly far more open to culture than most of the English lads who went over and still fondly remembered in Italy. Cracking taste in music too.

The Charlton piece was a great ending.

kksaints

Enjoyed that. Really liked the Italian archive footage. My only small complaint was that it wasn't 15 or 20 minutes longer. Would have liked a small piece on his last team in Italy Ascoli and a bit on his managerial career which never got going. But it was still a great watch.

RINO87

Chippy is one of the good guys.

Great watch.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238311#Comment_120238311

Hmmm. Not so sure about that. Charlton deliberately humiliated him in his final game. Not so sure I’d be as forgiving as Brady. After 88 Charlton didn’t want him in the team anymore (I always felt he was picking him grudgingly up to that, but he couldn’t really leave him out.) Then he got his injury. As I say, Charlton was finished with him after that, but started him against Germany in a friendly and hauled him off after half an hour “to show the Irish” that he was finished. I was never that much of a Charlton fan, and that was a particularly sh1tty thing to do. He’d have been more honest just not to pick him at all if that’s how he felt. It’s to Bradys credit that he didn’t hold a grudge. Notable that the letter didn’t apologise either.

Say Your Number

Didn't know he was that big into music.

Shame it isn't a two parter, would love if it went into more detail.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238580#Comment_120238580

Charlton had nothing to apologize for.

As Brady said it was 2 men with a difference of opinion about football. Maybe Brady forgave him because he knew there were 2 of them being pig headed. Brady could have actually just tried to do as his manager asked too.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238917#Comment_120238917

He had though. He deliberately and publicly humiliated him. He admitted as much in a subsequent interview where he said that the Irish don’t give up their heroes lightly, so you had to “show them.” He chose to substitute Brady before half time in order to make a very public point. I don’t know how old you are, but I’m old enough to remember the era very well. As for Brady not doing as his manager asked, he did exactly that for two years in the qualifying campaign for Euro 88. What it boils down to is that he just wasn’t Charlton kind of player and didn’t suit the caveman football that he favoured. Also, Andy Townsend had come on the scene, who was much more Charltons type of player. That was his prerogative as manager, but as I said previously it would have been far more honest of him to just not select Brady for the Germany game if that’s how he felt. Maybe he regretted the way he’d handled it afterwards, and that was the reason for the letter.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239349#Comment_120239349

If Brady done exactly as he asked then he would have been a Charlton type player. Brady admitted himself that he had a problem and arguments about Charltons tactics.

I think the letter definitely made it clear Charlton regretted how it happened.

Was surprised he felt regret about his form at Inter. Not sure it was something he was criticized about at the time.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239349#Comment_120239349

I remember the time and there was as much petulance from Brady and his supporters at the time.

Charlton was big enough to apologise and put the hand out and I think Brady's emotion with the letter showed he had regrets about it all too.

Maybe that should be the last word on it in deference to both men.

griffin100

Class player and comes across as a decent man. I was a big Arsenal fan as a kid and remember him, O'Leary and Stapleton ruling the roost at Highbury. I was at Lansdowne Road in 1987 when he scored against Brazil. That was a great day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tarFsaOEzbw

brokenbad

Great documentary and insight into Italian football back in the 80's - however i thought it just glossed over his managerial stints with Celtic and Brighton, not to mention his RTE punditry and term as assistant to Trappatoni. Could easily have added another 30 mins to cover these aspects of his career.

batman75

Blissett, Hateley, Jordan, Wilkins, Rush, Cowans, Souness, Francis and Rideout all went out to Italy from England in the 1980s yet it was Liam Brady from Ireland who truly succeeded over there playing for three famous clubs in Juventus, Sampdoria and Inter Milan. Interestingly enough Giovanni Trappatoni sold him twice as manager of Juventus and Inter.

Brady was a fabulous player with a wand of a left foot. When you consider we also had Kevin Sheedy we were truly blessed. Fantastic documentary by RTE.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243628#Comment_120243628

He makes a fleeting reference to his decision to move in the show and I wonder did he do better than most of the British players then and later because he had moved before.

He wasn't leaving "home" in the same sense. He also seems a very intelligent and cultured guy which helps in a foreign culture.

MfMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239547#Comment_120239547

The title, An Irishman Abroad, was a bit of a misnomer alright, as the program dealt with the climax to his international career at home too, rather than just his playing exploits in England and Italy (never mentioned that he also had a season or two with Ascoli.).

I've never bought in to the whole Jack Charlton 'success to Irish football' scene. He was the first to get us qualified for the World Cups in fairness but the football we played in them was dreadful by and large and we only won one match (Italy '94) on the field of play. In spite of all the furore at the time, I've always felt Mick McCarthy's deeds in 2002 were more impressive and largely overlooked.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244006#Comment_120244006

The great shame with the 2002 team is it took them so long to reach another tournament. They were the most gifted team we ever had.

Sadly despite it being a huge moment for the country and for me personally Italia 90 was one of the worst World Cups ever. We certainly played our part in that but a lot of teams played horrible football.

Euro 88 being only 8 teams is the one blows my mind in terms of an achievement.

Say Your Number

Watched it again, that chipped free kick for Inter Milan was incredible.

Tomaldo

Impressed the way he could speak Italian, did Gazza try to learn the lingo while he was there. I believe Gareth Bale didn't know much Spanish and it didn't go down well, even though he won multiple Champions Leagues and scored a great goal in a final.

batman75

The way we played under Jack at Euro 88 and WC 1990 was scandalous. I have always believed that midfield is the most important line in any side. Control the midfield control the game, less defending and more chances in attack. We had Sheedy, Houghton, Townsend, Sheridan, Houghton and Whelan to pick from. Also McGrath was another midfield option. Brady was past his best by 88. The aforementioned 6 were better than anyone we have had since except for Keane. All 6 were at the top of their game between 1988-1990.

Between 1988 and 1990 in John Aldridge we had as good a penalty box player as their was playing in England. Quinn/Cascarino were good target men. Morris, Irwin, Staunton and Hughton were all good/dependable full back options. O'Leary, McGrath, Moran and to a lesser extent McCarthy were solid centre backs. Packie was an outstanding goalkeeper who played one tournament too long in 1994. Peyton a solid back up.

Jack seemed to think that being in possession left you vulnerable especially when facing your own goal. I would argue his style of play left you vulnerable to losing possession. Yes the two tournaments in 1988 and 1990 were good campaigns but they had the potential to be better than they were had the team being allowed to express themselves. You don't have to play like Wimbledon did to be organised. In a sense those years were a missed opportunity. We'll never know how good we could have been.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120250634#Comment_120250634

I’d agree. It was minimum risk stuff really. Having the ball in your own half was anathema to Charlton. While this made us difficult for better teams to play against and meant that we got “results” in a lot of those games (draws mainly) in other games where we should have been controlling them and scoring goals, it didn’t come so easy. Drawing away to Luxembourg and with Egypt probably the two best examples. I’ve always wondered how things would have turned out if Eoin Hands team had made the World Cup in 82, when they came so close. That team had Brady Stapleton O’Leary and Lawrenson at their peak. I think they’d have done well in Spain, and could have kick started the boom a lot earlier, but we’ll never know.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251105#Comment_120251105

In Charltons defense no matter what system Ireland play the story of Irish football is losing or draws.

Drawing to teams we should beat isn't unique to Charlton.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251105#Comment_120251105

I’ve always wondered how things would have turned out if Eoin Hands team had made the World Cup in 82, when they came so close. That team had Brady Stapleton O’Leary and Lawrenson at their peak. I think they’d have done well in Spain, and could have kick started the boom a lot earlier, but we’ll never know.

It's annoying that this navel gazing about a manager who wasn't able to get us to a finals is used as criticism of a manager who did. It has the desperation and sadness of the character who lived out his years muttering 'I coulda been a contender'.

Hand failed to get us to the stage, Charlton didn't.

Beechwoodspark

I enjoyed this for what it was

BUT ....

the Irish national team topic was totally rushed as an afterthought at the end of the show.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251589#Comment_120251589

The Arsenal piece and the Irish piece were both a bit rushed I thought, I know it was called An Irishman Abroad but then it also tried to be a mini Brady bio and needed another 30 minutes at least for that.

corcaigh07

Was in hospitality a good while ago (within the last 10 years) and Brady was a fairly regular customer for a quiet coffee or pint after punditry.

Always nice to the staff and willing to chat, not grumpy at all.

The documentary was well produced, credit where credit is due to RTE on this one.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251589#Comment_120251589

Well it was called An Irishman Abroad.

It kinda implied his club career in England and Italy (obviously he did go abroad with Ireland too)

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251990#Comment_120251990

Very much about his life abroad. He didn't 'live' abroad with the Irish team.

Programme was aimed at a general audience I felt rather than a footie one. My partner who has scant interest in 'bloody football' thoroughly enjoyed this and the glimpse at their lives.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252023#Comment_120252023

I think a lot of people thought it would only be about his time in Italy because that was his only time "abroad"

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252058#Comment_120252058

Well I think the footage and coverage of his time in Italy was main selling point of the show. And what was referred to in the title.

Many hundreds of irish players have played 'abroad' in the UK, nothing really unique about that. But the show obviously had to show us his career in the UK as a basis of how he ended up in Italy.

Brady was a trendsetter in terms of actually playing ABROAD

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252152#Comment_120252152

An outlier more than a trendsetter because it never became a trend.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252190#Comment_120252190

Yes perhaps correct, although plenty of British players started to make the move to Italy after Brady, so perhaps he was a trendsetter for them?

StevenToast

I really enjoyed this documentary.

It was a great production...well done to everyone who put it together....

NKM had nothing to do with it!

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252217#Comment_120252217

Not really a couple of British players went before him and a few in the 90s.

Serie A had the money back then so I think it was inevitable that a few from everywhere went.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252248#Comment_120252248

I didn't quite understand one thing, was there a 'only two foreign players per team' rule or something like that?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252303#Comment_120252303

There were British players in the 60s such as Denis Law.

After a disastrous 1966 world cup a limit was placed, no new foreigners were allowed to be signed.

Then there was 1 foreigner allowed from 1980 and then later 2 foreigners.

Brady seems to have been the first signing from British leagues in that wave.

Good info here - it says it was done because of poor Italian peformance in Europe, but I wonder if EEC treaties might be a part aswell. Not allowing EEC players at all in Italy would have been contrary to freedom of movement.

https://www.cfclassics.co/players/lists/italyforeign/italy-serie-a-foreign-football-stars-1980s-1990s.htm

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252349#Comment_120252349

They did eventually have to change the rule to a limit on non EU players.

Ashbourne hoop

Really enjoyed the documentary. As others have said, RTE get a lot of rightful stick, but this was top notch. Could easily have been a two parter.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120254040#Comment_120254040

Part:II will be Robbie Keane abroad. 45 seconds dedicated to each team he played for.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251509#Comment_120251509

Yeah, cos things are always that simple, aren’t they ? Yes, Charlton got the breakthrough, but he got the breaks that Hand didn’t get. Hand was in a group with 3 top European teams and only lost out on goal difference,, and that after a very questionable refereeing performance in Brussels. That’s as much of a fact as Charlton achieving qualification. Sorry if you find that “annoying naval gazing,” but football talk is full of that kind of thing, always has been.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120254330#Comment_120254330

Hey, maybe comparisons are pointless?

Hand's failure doesn't detract from Charlton's success and vice versa? Different times, different circumstances. Don't chew yourself up over it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120254330#Comment_120254330

Football talk is also full of fans pointing to certain decisions to say "we were robbed" but bad decisions go both ways. I'm sure Hand "robbed" a few points too.