Sick of this country

twin_beacon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120528301#Comment_120528301

I stand corrected, the figures I had are well out of date

Kyokushin Grappler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252075#Comment_120252075

Except we're clearly not taking in only Ukrainians. The Govt also seems to be importing most of Africa and the Middle East as well.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120528326#Comment_120528326

Yeah not many people realise the paydown on our national debt over the last decade.

The turnaround has actually been pretty remarkable. Won't be long until we're in the top tier credit rated countries like Canada or Switzerland.

BattleCorp

You guys do realise that our GDP figures are pretty much a work of fiction? The multinationals that funnel their earnings through here to avail of our corporate tax rates skew our GDP so much that it pushes it into the realms of fiction.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120528301#Comment_120528301

https://www.ntma.ie/uploads/general/NTMA-Investor-Presentation-February-23.pdf

Debt to GDP is not useful here, as GDP is inflated.

Other metrics are better to measure the public debt.

Public debt to GNI* is still high.

twin_beacon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120528419#Comment_120528419

Yes it skews the GDP, but Ireland still gets that money.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120528347#Comment_120528347

The nominal size of the public debt has grown, it's the ratios that have fallen.

The public debt was 200-203 bn pre COVID.

COVID added 30bn+ of new public debt.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120528419#Comment_120528419

Ireland's debt to GNI* (basically our GDP with the distortative multinationals effect stripped out) puts us just over Germany's debt ratio.

We're doing fine from a national accounts point of view.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120528441#Comment_120528441

Doesn't matter a jot if the nominal amount is increasing if we're paying it down and the economy is growing and the ratio is plummeting. The covid debt was at ultra low interest rates btw, it's the cheapest money the state will ever get.

Our debt is entirely manageable.

Geuze

Yes, it is manageable, and yes the ratios have fallen.

However, we have not "paid it down", as the actual debt increased every year except last year.

I am not overly worried about it, but the debt per person is high. We should not be complacent.

We should run budget surpluses.

I am more worried about our high price level.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120528914#Comment_120528914

I never said that it was paid down. And we are running surpluses.

There are next to no developed countries with zero national debt, and there's good reason for that (the only one I can think of is Hong Kong, and they operate a currency peg with the dollar and enjoy massive capital inflows due to their unique status as a financial hub).

There are many prudent reasons why it's a good idea for a country to issue debt. Most capital expenditure in an economy would be next to impossible without issuing debt.

Take a look at the list of countries with low or close to zero debt. You wouldn't be booking a holiday to any of them never mind wanting to live there.

A country is not a household. And I don't know anyone who ever bought a house on their debit card from their current account.

Hungry Burger

I moved to England a few years back and recently returned. I don’t have any qualifications or skills so when it came to employment I thought England would be a safer bet, if things went massively tits up I could always 40 quid Ryan Air my way back.

Well I spent a good few years there and I can say, while not a perfect country at all, things are done a blindside better than the shambles of a country we have here at the moment. Homes home at the end of the day, but if you’re like me in Ireland and came from a background where you didn’t have a pot to piss in, it’s impossible to really get ahead. Those from privileged backgrounds think it’s a great country, A country only for rich people.

Now with the current status quo where the country is being flooded with foreigners who will compete with the likes of me in the job market and keep wages deflated, is it any wonder people pack up and never look back?

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529345#Comment_120529345

Ok so you are complaining about having zero qualifications or skills and you are wondering why you can't get a high paying job? Then go on complaining about bloody foreigners in a job market...when you went over to England and did the same thing lol.

It's in no way impossible to get ahead if you come from a poor background in Ireland. My folks came from nothing, they worked hard their whole lives, my mum was a nurse during the troubles studied and managed to raise two kids, we had very little money at most stages, my dad worked abroad as a plumber in war zones at times to try and improve things. I worked my whole way through uni as did my sister, we were handed nothing.

Juran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529948#Comment_120529948

Totally agree. We hadnt a penny growing up in the 70's and 80's. We availed of free education, got grants to go to university. Myself amd my siblings all have good high salary jobs now thanks to free education and studying hard while growing up. Everyone can do the same.

Lads in my class who had nothing growing up, and who didnt do too well at school did their plumbing, electrical, carpentary, etc apprecntices ... they are earing big money now in Ireland and abroad. They stuck with it, put in the time, work and training.

You dont need to be born rich in Ireland or Europe to obtain a good career.

Podge_irl

I would suspect social mobility in the UK (and England moreso) is significantly worse than in Ireland. You can somewhat sidestep it by being an acceptable foreigner though.

Tuttlinghorn

@Nermal can you point to any good sources of ( understandable 🫣) info on EIIs or the ‘etc’ that you mention ?

thanks

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529948#Comment_120529948

I'd agree that its possible to make something of yourself but it's not possible for you to "get ahead" maybe perhaps boost your kids to get ahead

I came from nothing (Single parent family, we didn't have much money at all), but I've a very good job now, went to college and all that. I think I'm the exception if I'm honest, most people in my situation did not do as well as I did. (in fact many of the lads I went to school with are jobless or homeless or dead, drugs and what not.)

A lot of my mates come from wealthy(ish) families. So many of them have gotten huge amounts of financial help to "keep ahead". I can never catch up with them. In some cases I earn more than my mate and their partner put together, yet they are buying a house for upwards of 600k that there is no way I could ever afford.

My son however has a chance to "get ahead", so long as I keep going at it, I'll be able to boost him the way my friends were boosted by their parents. Will it be enough??? Who knows.

WheelieKing

Unfortunately we have a great economy and a poor society. The gap between those that have and those that don't is increasing. Like others have said it's a nice place to live if you are well off but otherwise it's pretty shi tty

AndrewJRenko

For anyone interested in facts

An Optimist's Guide to The Census Data on RTÉ Radio 1

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22259015/

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681772#Comment_120681772

Wow talk about tendentious. Obviously sloganeering like "Diversity is Strength" is not the first and last word in whether "things are great".

Mark Henry (author and radio guest from the link above) is just reiterating the standard-issue narrative with which we're all very familiar already.

Not even all politically liberal journalists can agree on this interpretation, let alone all Irish people. There are many different points of view.

realitykeeper

This week in the Dáil, Leo Varadkar bragged about his governments "achievements" saying more young people are buying houses. What he didn`t say was the reason for that is because his government losened lending standards. Don`t get me wrong, I am all in favour of people buying houses but not at any cost. Varadkar wants house prices to stay high so when house prices wobbled due to rising interest rates, his government immediately slackened lending standards, making it easier for people to get a mortgage. What he should have done was deflate the house prices his government inflated with the 200 billion euro FG borrowed since 2008.

How does one, deflate existing house prices and start a construction boom at the same time? Simply by taxing existing housing stock heavily, on a monthly basis and force the sale of any property in tax arrears. Also exempt first time buyers and new builds from the tax. This will incentivise existing home owners to sell their properties to tax exemp first time buyers at prices first time buyers can afford and the sellers of existing houses will buy new builds to attain tax free status.

If the tax is punitive enough, not only will it be highly successful but it will pay down the national debt to 2008 levels.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681917#Comment_120681917

Huh?

Force home existing owners to sell their houses to first time owners and then these people can buy new homes.

That will lower house prices, start a construction boom and pay down the national debt.

That is beyond nonsensical.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681812#Comment_120681812

In fairness, he pointed out the factual basis for his statements, beyond personal opinion.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681772#Comment_120681772

Population increasing as opposed to decreasing like Japan: 500,000 people in a single year. 1 million people in less than 20 years. OR 25% increase in population in 20 years is not good or sustainable (and we'll back to this is a second)

Longest living population in Europe. This is going to be a major overheard on Tax Payer - Pensions and Health. They're already trying to increase the retirement age. Everyone recognizes this is a big problem.

Diversity. 1 in 5 people here born elsewhere, which is as he said is a million people. So that million people increase above isn't people being born and educated here, it's mostly people here for work (Which is good!), but the failure to plan for the last 20 years for the arrival of migrant workers by successive governments in charge has caused huge problems. Just to add to this: I'm 100% for diversity, I think it makes us significantly better, and I want to see it continue. 

Female labour force has increased hugely which is good, but this means women are more inclined to have fewer children and have them later. And it also means you need two peoples salaries to buy a decent property, where as you used to only need one. I think a lot of people are starting to come full circle on this. What is the point of having kids if you leave them in creche/day care all day?

Record low unemployment which is good yes, but it's a double edged sword. No one wants to be a doctor or a nurse in Ireland now. Everyone wants to work for high paying multinational or set up there own business. there is a serious labour shortage at the moment as a direct result of multinationals offering huge salaries that public sector jobs cannot compete with. Some of the bigger multinationals will start a grad on €60k!!

Tax surplus has been "a thing" for long time in Ireland, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned that it'll be squandered as it was in the celtic tiger era. And we'll annoyingly see nothing for it. I think it's more like they the money will be used to clear some of the national debt which is probably the best thing for it. (although we need huge infra improvements.)

96% of people are fairly satisfied with their lives (who did they interview and when?). Irish people NEVER complain to the people they should be complaining to, so that's a null point for me.

I will agree that access to college education has been a huge deal for Ireland (Like one of the most important things to ever happen here in my life time). I was lucky enough to avail of it. However the flipside is that very few are doing trade work anymore, as everyone wants those multinational jobs. 

There are pros and cons with everything and a balanced opinion is key. I think the development of the country has certainly increased but there has been tens of thousands of people left behind. I just think we're running to hot/fast. There is a void forming where the lower middle class/upper working class used to be.

Mark himself is one of those privileged people who Ireland is great for. He started college in 1988, tuition fees were only eliminated in 1995. (So he comes from money)

His arguments in that piece use a subverted narrative, which is fine so long as the people listening understand that.

Swaine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529948#Comment_120529948

I done 4 years in college getting a degree. Full-time evening course. I had to pay €3000 per year in fees, no help from government, nothing. A paltry few hundred back at the end of the year, that was it (if you quaiify for it). Meanwhile, we are flooding this country with god knows who and spending billions a year to mind them. Where is the help for the likes of that poster you're having a go at?

In a well paying job now and have the privilge of handing over €400 a week to the government via income tax, PRSI and USC. Guess what mug would have to hand over €100 if I or a jobless refugee presented at an A&E department?

This country punishes people who want to get ahead but seems hell bent on impressing on the EU stage by helping leeches.

riclad

every eu country agreed to take in ukrainians ,we are taking in much less than other countrys, our economy is booming, yes its true if you are gen z you are paying high rent and you will struggle to buy a house in the future .the government has really screwed up the housing market.yes in money terms if you are a trained nurse you can go to australia . earn a high wage , pay less tax and have a good standard of living .

quote ; Is it cheap to buy a house in Australia?

Australia's two largest and most expensive housing markets—Sydney and Melbourne—remain out of reach for most home buyers, especially first-time home buyers. A 2022 report found that with median home values in each city topping $1 million, Sydney and Melbourne qualified as some of the least affordable cities worldwide.

the last 3 weeks in dublin it has not rained once , its sunny most days the last month.

i would hate to live in LA or oz where its sunny every day ,i like irish weather ,its more variable . If you just care about money and taxs well i understand theres plenty of countrys with low tax rates

i understand in kerry or clare it rains alot more than in dublin .

germany took in over 1 million ukranians

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684081#Comment_120684081

Germany has a population of 83.2 million!

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683320#Comment_120683320

Lets separate your two issues.

1. You worked hard and got a well paying job. Fair play to you. That's what most of us had to do. I have to ask the question though, did you really expect the Government to hand you a well paying job without you having to work (or pay) for it? By the way, the Government probably did contribute to your education in that they more than likely funded the lecturers, the college grounds etc. Were your fees tax deductible? I know when I went to college I claimed tax back on the fees.
2. Is your gripe that you don't want foreigners here (because they get free stuff) or is it the fact that you have to pay tax? There's very few countries where you don't have to pay any tax. You could argue this 1000 different ways but Ireland isn't the worst when it comes to paying income tax. We pay a fair chunk for sure, but many countries pay more. My main gripe isn't the amount of tax I have to pay, it's how much of it is wasted.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681999#Comment_120681999

Not given the context. Existing house prices were deliberately inflated with 200 billion in borrowed money. Existing owners are the beneficiaries of that. So it is right and proper they pay the 200 billion, not young people.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684215#Comment_120684215

I'm an existing homeowner. I didn't get my house for free. I worked hard, paid my tax, saved a deposit and bought a house. It wasn't easy but do you expect me to pay for my house again?

I won't be the beneficiary of my house rising in value as I'll be living in it until myself and the wife die. Then someone else will be the beneficiary........a young person.