Sick of this country

Boggles · 07-06-2023 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685466#Comment_120685466

People don't like to say it but immigration, generally legal immigration has caused massive problems here. Schools are full, there aren't enough houses, hospitals can't cope with the population, it's very hard to get anyone to do repairs on your house. In short our population has gone up way too much without the resources we needed to provide for more people.

Schools are not full, we are undersubscribed. It's the reason we were able to integrate 15,000 Ukrainian children. There is pressure points in certain areas but that is bad planning more than anything else.

It's immigrants that build our houses and work in our health systems, without them we would be in complete dire straights.

The reality is we are going to need a lot more of them going forward if we want to achieve our capital construction plans.

I lived in Australia years ago, it was nice enough, just not home so we came back.

So you were an immigrant yourself?

Sunny Disposition · 07-06-2023 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685535#Comment_120685535

Yes, I was. I don't dislike immigrants at all, I employ a heap of them. Mostly great workers too.

But that doesn't change the fact that Ireland has brought in too many new people too quickly. It's not racist or discriminatory to say so.

In many areas schools are full and oversubscribed. Allowing targeted immigration of people with certain skills is generally a good idea, but that's not what has happened here. And the country is paying a price for it. It's mostly young people paying for it through extortionate rents. Also older people who can't get the health care they need.

It's an inconvenient truth. In my opinion it's just childish to say that immigration has not been the key factor in the health and housing crises. It clearly is.

growleaves · 07-06-2023 11:18am

'So you were an immigrant yourself?'

Effectively sounds like he was a guest worker since he went, worked and came back.

Plenty of East Europeans working here with no intention of staying on and the same was true in 2002-7.

Boggles · 07-06-2023 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685577#Comment_120685577

No one suggested you were racist, just wrong.

The reality is we need immigrants of all skill levels, particularly to care for our elderly who you highlighted, work in construction, tourism and our health service, etc, etc, etc.

IF a County Council gives the go ahead to a new large housing development because they want the fees and don't plan for obvious extra infrastructure that isn't an immigrants fault.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/council-refuses-planning-permission-for-school-after-advising-dept-of-education-to-pay-12m-for-site/41650710.html

No Immigrant made that decision. I guarantee you that.

Beta Ray Bill · 07-06-2023 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685384#Comment_120685384

If you're into cycling that's great. If you're not, its terrible. 30km/2 hour cycle per day... it's not for most people. In fact I'd argue it's for very few.

Metro's original concept should have been completed by now. (I've b*tched and moaned enough about it in this site 😅) I don't think it'll happen.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685535#Comment_120685535

It think it depends on where you live. Some of the Schools close to me are quite empty because the area has matured. The schools where my son lives are absolutely jammed. 35 kids in a class job, with two classes! depends on where you are.

Boggles · 07-06-2023 11:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685667#Comment_120685667

It think it depends on where you live. Some of the Schools close to me are quite empty because the area has matured. The schools where my son lives are absolutely jammed. 35 kids in a class job, with two classes! depends on where you are.

I know that's why I said there were pressure areas. But overall our school system is under subscribed, so the declarations that they are over subscribed is false.

Hardly surprising there is pressure areas though.

Given nonsense like this.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/council-refuses-planning-permission-for-school-after-advising-dept-of-education-to-pay-12m-for-site/41650710.html

One benefit of the war is a lot of rural schools who took in Ukrainians secured extra resources which is absolutely fantastic for the village, because if the school closes the village normally dies, remote working has played its part too.

carrollsno1 · 07-06-2023 11:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684966#Comment_120684966

Two young kids one in school one in playschool, fuel for the family car, i think there is finance on the family car too and whatever other expenses come into the house as well. His OH started back working a few days a week this year which will help things along too but hes not gonna be rolling in it either.

Sunny Disposition · 07-06-2023 12:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685611#Comment_120685611

Targeted immigration, limited to workers with critical skills is obviously positive. But that doesn't seem to be possible.

It's possible to argue that the current immigration policy is correct. But it's not possible to argue that the level of immigration over the last 20 years is a major factor in the housing and health crises. You might feel that Ireland is still making a net benefit, but it's certainly not without cost to Irish society.

getoutadodge · 07-06-2023 12:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685348#Comment_120685348

I sent my kids to single sex schools and glad I did. Compared to those shoveled into the local comprehensive. There should be choice rather than the coercion u advocate. Same for religious schools which I attended. Pupils used to travel miles by bus to attend it so much so that I, as I kid, naively thought there were no schools in the "countryside" outside Dublin. Decades later this is still the case for that very same school and for the girls only convent school nearby. Parents get to choose not bureaucrats. I saw the very same pattern of behaviour in Australia when I lived there. The neighbourhood state school was a dud and I had to act to forestall problems.

Boggles · 07-06-2023 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685731#Comment_120685731

Well that changes the goalposts considerably, you made it sound like he was mortgage free lad with no family. So the wife is working too, so it's more than €750 cash a week coming into the house. Plus children's allowance, subsidised child care, subsidised health care, etc.

Mortgage free allows his wife to work only part time which means more time to spend with the kids and family, etc.

People are too occupied with cost, seldom do they acknowledge the true value.

Boggles · 07-06-2023 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685753#Comment_120685753

The major factor in our housing crisis is the constant hyperventilating about it and having no clear steady plan to steady the batshít housing market that has exited now since the early 90s.

It wasn't long ago we were bulldozing estates.

As for health, the centralisation of services without backfilling them into the communities they came from, add in lack of recruitment and lack of services for elderly care.

Targeted immigration, limited to workers with critical skills is obviously positive

I have no idea what a critical skill is but if a restaurant owner hires 6 from abroad to keep his restaurant open because the alternative is closure, I'd consider that critical.

If the petrol station is open so I can fill up with fuel in the morning and get to work I'd consider that critical to me.

So could you define what you mean by "critical skills" exactly?

Thelonious Monk · 07-06-2023 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685753#Comment_120685753

The government's policy seems to be to grow the economy at all costs, with this you need lots of unskilled immigration to do the jobs that there aren't enough Irish people for and that Irish people don't want to do any more. The local shop where I grew up now seems to be mostly staffed by Indians, when I was a kid it was mostly local women who worked there 5 or 6 days a week. You're not going to find a local in Artane and similar areas these days who will work in a Centra for 5 or 6 days a week for a significant amount of time so I can understand why the owners have employed these people who will work their arses off for the opportunity of living in a country like Ireland.

I know the whole asylum seeker thing is a different ball game altogether, but immigration is just a symptom of a growing economy, and unless we approach the economy in a new and unique way we're still going to need lots and lots of unskilled migrants to do menial jobs.

Murph85 · 07-06-2023 12:41pm

Screenshot_20230607-122937_Samsung Internet.jpg

112500 euro you can earn in Australia before paying the max rate of 45c in the euro. Triple the pittance of the threshold here...

We have no military expenditure, rubbish infrastructure, a very small elderly population. Where the hell is all the money going...

Sunny Disposition · 07-06-2023 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685834#Comment_120685834

Medical would always be critical, but what I mean is critical for the economy at a certain time. Australia had a system a bit like this years ago, don't know if they still do. Basically if you were a scaffolder or carpenter and applying at a time of a skills shortage in those areas your application is given a greater priority than someone without such a skill.

Immigration clearly is the big problem with housing, it's been massive for the last couple of decades. It's also extremely difficult to plan for immigration in Ireland because it's been very easy for people from much bigger countries to come here. It just can't be controlled right now.

Tbh I think it's a bit silly to suggest it's not the big issue behind the housing crisis. You can argue that current immigration policy is still for the best, but one impact of it has certainly been a shortage of accommodation.

Boggles · 07-06-2023 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685930#Comment_120685930

We have similiar.

https://enterprise.gov.ie/en/what-we-do/workplace-and-skills/employment-permits/permit-types/critical-skills-employment-permit/

critical for the economy at a certain time

Not just critical for the economy but society too surely?

Again, value.

Medical would always be critical

Indeed, what else? In order for those medical workers to eat, get to work, get their car fixed, get their home maintained, etc. What else?

Peter Flynt · 07-06-2023 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685426#Comment_120685426

OECD PISA rankings among primary and secondary students in Ireland relative to their peers in other countries are very high in Maths & Reading relative to their peers in other countries. We rank 8th out of 77 countries in Reading, 21st and 22nd in Maths & Science. Relative to the paltry resources placed into Irish schools this is quite an achievement.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/pisa-rankings-irish-teens-among-the-best-at-reading-in-developed-world-1.4102951

Ireland has a population the same size as Alabama in the US. The highest ranking university in Alabama is the University of Alabama (Birmingham) and it ranks between 601-800 in world rankings. I wouldn't read too much into third level rankings as third level is all about money. Where the money goes the higher rankings follow and traditionally we underfund third level in Ireland.

Peter Flynt · 07-06-2023 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685397#Comment_120685397

If you cannot live or rent in Dublin on a FT nurse or teacher's wage (after say five years of service) then it is quite clear they are not well paid relative to the economy they are living in. . . . and that is most definitely the case. Ireland is absurdly expensive to live in (you name it we are at the top of any cost in the EU) and both direct and indirect taxes are way too high.

Sunny Disposition · 07-06-2023 1:14pm

Ah here, I explained the thinking, critical skills would be ones that aren't present in the economy.

You're being deliberately obtuse; you know people can arrive here from far bigger countries regardless of skills and literally hundreds of thousands have done so. If you don't believe that is the major factor behind the current housing crisis, that's okay, we can agree to disagree. But I am finished exchanging views with you because I believe you have deliberately misunderstood me.

hynesie08 · 07-06-2023 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685905#Comment_120685905

So, you pay more tax in Australia, because that's what those numbers say.

Peter Flynt · 07-06-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685859#Comment_120685859

It is government policy to replace mainly emigrating Irish citizens with citizens of foreign countries. This has been going on for years in the health service and there are still thousands of vacancies. They're moving this onto education at present. This is a neo-liberalist policy of getting a skilled worker for as cheap as you can get them and has been going on in the US, UK and Ireland for quite some time re public sector workers.

Meanwhile the planes are full of skilled Irish emigrants leaving.

Sunny Disposition · 07-06-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686026#Comment_120686026

Yeah, it's very easy understand why people like the OP would feel that Dublin in particular is unliveable. Rental prices really are outrageous and the measures the Government have taken have backfired.

I won't be voting for SF next time out but it's not surprising many people will, they want some bit of hope of normality.

Thelonious Monk · 07-06-2023 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686047#Comment_120686047

There are more Irish people returning to Ireland than leaving according to the latest CSO statistics.

Although nearly all doctors leave to work abroad and gain experience, a recent survey showed 85% of them return to live in Ireland.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41073995.html

Peter Flynt · 07-06-2023 1:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686049#Comment_120686049

I will vote for SF for the first time in my life from the next election onwards based solely on one issue - housing/rent. I also think that the current government are a glorified student union incapable of meeting the modern everyday challenges facing the country. LV & MM are completely incompetent and what's behind them ain't much better. They're governing for vested interests (i.e. the 35-40% who support them) and fcuk the rest.

Allinall · 07-06-2023 1:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686067#Comment_120686067

Are you not voting with a vested interest?

Bear in mind SF will do the exact same if they get into government. Govern for vested interests- i.e. the ones who vote for them.

tesla_newbie · 07-06-2023 1:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686067#Comment_120686067

SF worked tirelessly to thwart the building of houses this past number of years

Peter Flynt · 07-06-2023 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686056#Comment_120686056

There will always be people returning as this is their home and they consider it their home where they grew up with their families. The real tragedy in many cases is so many have to leave in the first place when they do not want to do but are compelled to do so to save for a future that they cannot do in Ireland. This 1300 difference is also quite small between those emigrating and returning and our including data going back to the Census before last.

Quite frankly if it were not for the war in Ukraine we would have a falling population with politicians simultaneously boasting of how successful we are.