Sick of this country

Geuze

I suggest four rates: 20 - 30 - 40 - 50%.

The PRSI ceiling should be re-introduced.

50% should start where PRSI ends, so the max MTR is 50%.

I suggest a PRSI ceiling of maybe double mean/median earnings, say 100k min.

USC should be merged into tax or PRSI.

The marginal rate for a worker on 40k median earnings should fall from 48.5% to maybe 25-30%.

As I realise the costs of ageing, healthcare, etc., I am not calling for less taxes overall, but I am calling for the disincentive effects of 50% MTR on typical workers to be removed.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120754603#Comment_120754603

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/21e7d-minister-humphreys-launches-consultation-forum-on-proposals-for-a-new-pay-related-jobseekers-benefit/

Minister for Social Protection, Heather Humphreys, has today launched a stakeholder consultation forum on proposals for a new Pay-Related Jobseeker’s Benefit scheme in Ireland.

Pay-Related Benefit is common in European countries and links a person’s jobseeker’s payment to their previous earnings and work history.

It is designed to soften the income shock that a worker may face if they suddenly lose their job.

The draft proposals for the introduction of Pay-Related Benefit for Jobseekers in Ireland are contained in a 'Strawman' published in December by Minister Humphreys.

Today’s event at the Chartered Accountants House in Dublin was organised to provide information and receive feedback on these proposals from stakeholders across society.

Speaking today, Minister Humphreys said:

“Pay-Related Benefit is a system that is in place in countries across the European Union.

“It is all about removing that so-called ‘cliff-edge’ and softening the sudden income shock workers can face upon losing their jobs.

“Last year, I secured government agreement to publish a strawman proposal which sets out one potential design for how Pay-Related Benefit could work.

“Today’s forum represented an important opportunity to get the views of stakeholders from across society about this particular proposal.

“The introduction of a pay-related benefit system would bring Ireland in line with our European neighbours.

“It would also ensure that the employment benefit people receive is commensurate with their financial commitments as much as possible.

“We saw during the pandemic that a pay-related benefit system can work.

“But it’s important to get the design of any such proposal right. That’s why this stakeholder forum was a valuable opportunity to gain a broad range of views.”

On 7 December 2022, Minister Humphreys launched the public consultation process by publishing a Strawman document which sets out the broad parameters of one potential approach in designing a Pay Related Benefit scheme.

The final design will be considered following the consultation process.

While the Strawman primarily focuses on jobseekers supports, feedback received as part of the public consultation will also help to inform the consideration of potential changes to other short-term income supports for workers who have to temporarily cease work such as Maternity Benefit, Parental Leave Benefit and Illness Benefit.

Submissions are invited from all interested stakeholders, including workers, jobseekers, representative organisations, and employers, and should be forwarded by email to: PRB@welfare.ie by 28 February 2023.

Notes

The Pay-Related Jobseekers Strawman document can be accessed at www.gov.ie/PRBConsultation.

It is not a final design, and its purpose is to frame a constructive discussion and seek feedback through a national public consultation process with stakeholders. The design of any proposal that may be brought to Government may differ significantly from that set out in the Strawman consultation paper.

The Strawman invites stakeholders to provide feedback on PRSI increases to cover any additional costs associated with a Pay Related Benefit for Jobseekers.

The key features of the proposal set out in the Strawman include:

The Benefit would be paid to employees who:

• are under State pension age (66) who are fully unemployed
• have a demonstrated strong, recent attachment to the labour force, and
• are available for and genuinely seeking paid employment

The Rate of Benefit would be set as follows:

• for people who have at least five years paid Pay Related Social Insurance (PRSI) contributions (of which six months must have been in the 12 months prior to their claim), the rate would be set at 60% of the person’s prior gross income subject to a cap of €450 per week
• for people who have less than five years prior PRSI contributions but at least two years (of which six months must have been in the 12 months prior to their claim), the rate would be set at 50% of the person’s prior gross income subject to a cap of €300 per week
• a minimum rate of €100 would apply
• payment would be payable for up to a maximum six months

People working part-time or on a casual basis would continue to be eligible for the Jobseeker’s Benefit scheme. Over time the existing Jobseeker’s Benefit scheme may be adapted and/or a new income tested Working Age Payment model may be introduced whereby payments could be linked each week to a person’s employment earnings (similar to the existing Working Family Payment).

Self-employed people would continue to be catered for under the current Jobseeker’s Benefit (Self-Employed) Scheme.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120754603#Comment_120754603

https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/a73aa-pay-related-benefit-scheme-consultation/#document

Here is the proposal.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120753834#Comment_120753834

simple average and median comparisons with no context are fairly meaningless

you could for example argue there are more houses in the UK, per capita, over say £1m compared to Ireland, which would skew the median UK price upwards in comparison to Ireland....

But without going down that pedantic rabbit hole, I'll use an anecdote instead.

I have the ability to live in a house and an area that would be comparable to living in say Beaumont (nice part) in Dublin (in a sense of space, amenities, access to city etc...), but would have no chance of actually doing that in Dublin...

A couple of reasons:

-as you mentioned, industry pay and taxation (higher gross take home compared to Ireland)

-access to credit (3 years credit history and you're laughing, saved a deposit and had mortgage in 11 months)

-healthy churn in housing market (yes it can be competitive, but nowhere near a cut throat as Ireland currently is)

-access to healthy saving options (better saving options compared to Ireland, better shares options in work which provide dividends, better pension for long term security allowing to be a bit more frivolous at times when younger)

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752805#Comment_120752805

Just to pick this apart...

I agree, college fees are a joke, however, Degree Apprenticeships which are becoming the norm over here, will give you a degree with 3 -4 years experience, while being paid, with no student fees to foot.

NHS is always underfunded, and I do believe a that a 2 tier system is on the horizon, but, it's still free, even if it's a pain to initially get seen,that said,had to bring the kid to the doc with ridiculous hayfever.... GP was booked out for 2 weeks, so called 111, went through triage, sent us to an out of hours GP and Chemist who sent us home with industrial strength anti histamines at 9 o clock at night... process took about 4 hrs total... all free.

Trains are great when they're not on strike, and in fairness, timetables are kept up to day during strikes, so there's none of this turning up and a train doesn't arrive, you know in advance...

Some rivers and beaches are ****(literally) I agree with that, but Ireland is no saint either (Dollymount is renound for storm run off), and if you keep away from areas with treatment plants it's fine.

Lots of private schools tons on public schools also,although I do concede the GSCE and A-level curriculum is a bit pants IMO compared to Irish curriculum.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752701#Comment_120752701

You didn’t actually believe him, did you?

covidcustomer

Perhaps that's why I asked the question..........

johannmall

My god man , I couldn't be anymore in tune with this country, I've endured the neck snapping sleepless nites , courtesy of flowers financial who bought my mortgage from ulster bank , for a shadow of what I paid for it !

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120756279#Comment_120756279

The reason I was saying all of that was because I do believe Ireland has a far better standard of living. I think most metrics support this. The one huge pain in Ireland is accommodation. Housing is just ridiculous.

Sure there's loads of other problems that need to be addressed, and many are quite serious, but I think the sheer scale of the housing crises dwarfs them.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120766563#Comment_120766563

as this thread has shown, Ireland's a great place if you're not working or if you already have a house :-D

Standard of living element is still open to debate IMO.... middle class Ireland without a gaff, compared to middle class UK without a gaff are two huge differences in living.... and you would have better prospects in the UK than in Ireland currently for sure.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755111#Comment_120755111

Yep. Far too late for me. If it ever happens :)

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767442#Comment_120767442

Prospects of?

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120774355#Comment_120774355

a better standard of living

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767442#Comment_120767442

Based on what, exactly? The UK has a housing crisis as well along with an NHS that's in tatters and a top heavy capital city that fewer and fewer people can afford to live in.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767442#Comment_120767442

How come reports last year showed the poor in Ireland are 63% better off than those in the UK .

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767442#Comment_120767442

Certain industries have more options in the UK and pay better, but its not universal. The rental market in London is every bit as bad as Dublin - if not worse depending on how you factor commute times into it.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120756249#Comment_120756249

Having lived in London for years and eventually moving back to Ireland I have to disagree and my experience has been the opposite, with housing in Ireland being far more affordable.

For your Beaumont comparison, it's about 25 mins from city centre by public transport.

3 bed, 110 sqm for under 400k: https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-37-coolatree-park-beaumont-beaumont-dublin-9/4724397

Comparing to Hackney, also about 25 mins from the city / west end in London by public transport

3 bed, 80sqm, equivalent of 1 million euros: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/86196480#/?channel=RES_BUY

That's a quick browse choosing a random house from the first page of daft / rightmove. Neither house is an outlier (in fact most of the houses around that size in Hackney are much more expensive but they're also a nicer standard)

Sure, you'd probably prefer to live in Hackney than Beaumont. But to actually find a 3 bed house for 400k euros in greater London you'll be looking way out beyond zone 6, looking at spending 2 hours per day on the tube, and looking at a pretty run down area to boot.

You'd be paying much higher interest rates on your mortgage in the UK at the moment too.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775124#Comment_120775124

They do,but not nearly as bad as Ireland is in... there's a brand new town being built near me, 10,000+ houses, school, amenities etc... Ireland struggled to build 10,000 houses in the last 2 years.... and that is one of hundreds of new towns around the UK.

NHS is always in tatters... its still free though... Urgent stuff still gets expedited.... if you don't want to wait, you can get medical insurance for a fraction of the cost of Ireland to skip the queues.

Agree with the top heavy capital, but unlike Ireland, you have multiple options of cities to move to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775163#Comment_120775163

Because they're correct, Ireland is fantastic to live in if you're poor or just want to scrounge. That's also why I mentioned middle class in my posts.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775166#Comment_120775166

I'd argue that unless you had some sort of calling into agriculture, you have far more opportunity to get well paid role, with progression options in any industry over Ireland... mainly due to the sample size, while Ireland is a tech/pharma based innovation sector, it's still a small pond of a highly competitive jobs market...

Rental market issue in London is a bit different to Dublin, in a sense you still have plenty of places to rent, people are just priced out of the market... Dublin is expensive and has a supply problem, and like I said above,there are plenty of alternatives to London (plus WFH) which is definitely not the case in Ireland.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775341#Comment_120775341

There is far more to the UK than London. I'm in an area close to a city, with good public transport and amenities, not too far from the coast or airport also... that's what I meant with the Beaumont example

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775380#Comment_120775380

I completely agree that London has far more industries, though the tech/pharma area is not small. I, personally, would struggle to get a role in Dublin and would be fine in London but that's inevitable given its size. Also in my role I would have to be in the office multiple days a week and that puts a lot of pressure on rental. I don't agree on the characterisation of rentals in Dublin vs London - London is every bit as bad as Dublin and there is a chronic shortage of supply and incredibly high prices for those that can find anything. On top of which, they have better PT but you will spend a long ass time on it.

England does have alternatives to London that Ireland does not. Though I think if you talked to anyone in Bham, Manc etc they would be amazed to find a country that ignores their regional cities even more than England does. Its not good by any means.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775341#Comment_120775341

A lot of people are quite fussy when it comes to Dublin and want to live on south side or in more prime areas. There are more affordable places in reasonably good areas.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775389#Comment_120775389

It's not really like for like comparing an area close to the city centre of the capital city of one country with a small town near some regional city in another country though is it?

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775469#Comment_120775469

when comparing lifestyle, leisure and ease of movement, it is very comparable.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775408#Comment_120775408

If I had the money, I could go onto Zoopla tomorrow, and get a place within a week anywhere in London, without having to go into a bidding war. That isn't the case in Dublin at the moment. Also, like I said, plenty of options to live outside the M25 catchment, or not work in London at all.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775577#Comment_120775577

"If I had the money" is like 3k£ a month or more. Its effectively impossible to achieve for most people and certainly not for "middle class people".

There are options to live outside London in a way there isn't in Ireland at this point (cities like Bham, Glasgow, Liverpool etc are a step above anything outside Dublin in Ireland). But they all have their problems with housing also and a steep discount on salaries compared to London.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775341#Comment_120775341

I lived a few streets up from that house in Hackney until a couple of months ago. The house I left was a 2 bed with one of the rooms being tiny, and is worth 1.2 million or something like that. The amount of people that wanted to view the place when we were leaving was nuts too. But I guess Hackney is a very in demand area especially that part, which is about as trendy an area as they come in London, the land of sourdough and komboucha.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775389#Comment_120775389

Not for most industries. I'd also disagree with you regarding housing and healthcare. It's getting visibly worse here.

Sure, if you're a dentist or a GP you can live a very nice lifestyle in somewhere like Durham or Chester but for most people, myself included, the jobs are all in London.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775624#Comment_120775624

My point still stands... I tried to move back to Dublin recently, I have family and friends looking at the moment, you do not get list price on rentals in Dublin, you will end up in a bidding war. I could up sticks and move to London within a few days for list price. I also wouldn't be living anywhere in the map of London you highlighted of London as that's prime private real estate stock where the average price is millions or 10's of millions of pounds... If you're outside the area you've shown, but inside the M25, you can still be 20-40 mins reach of central London. Which would be the equivalent of living in Dun Laoghaire, Sutton, or Blanch travel wise in Dublin.

marno21

There is a severe shortage of rental properties all over Ireland, especially in the big cities. In some cities it’s a cost issue but in Ireland it’s a cost AND availability issue. The number of rentals available in the big cities is shockingly low.

Landlords are selling up in their droves because it’s not worth the hassle in their opinions and these houses are then being hoovered up by first time buyers so there is a huge net reduction in rentals.

Unless we’re going to become the Soviet Union we’re going to need private landlords. The government don’t appear interested in stopping this exodus so the exodus will continue. Ad hoc policies based on outrage and emotion aren’t working for the rental market and that will continue to be the case for so long as they are pursued.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684351#Comment_120684351

I've been out of the country since last Thursday. Just back.

Did I miss any Irish style good oul fashioned corruption whilst I was away?