Simmering anger

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252675#Comment_120252675

What is one supposed to do?

One can't exactly goose step down to the local HSE and start implementin' changes

You can buy a house for yourself but it comes at the expense of someone who is also looking for a house.

The only thing an individual can possibly do something about is the refugee problem by joining the fight against Putin's army. For the other ones there is no fight for anyone to join and the 2 or 3 political parties who created those problems will sail back into power simply because people are afraid of Sinn Fein

riclad

the people that govern us are over,40, or 50 plus, they are on private health insurance ,,probably not waiting 7 hours in a crowded er to see a doctor.it,ll get worse , more nurses are leaving, theres a shortage of doctors and gardai, they mostly live in nice quiet middle class area,s .

nurses are going to countrys where they are well paid and can afford to buy a house. in the 80s, jo bloggs working in dunne stores could buy a house on one wage, a nurse or garda could easily get a mortage ,

now it takes 2 people working full time in good jobs to get a mortgage .young people in japan dont want to get married or have kids cos house prices are too expensive.the population is falling.this has negative effects on the economy in the long term.our economy keeps going based on young people coming to work here from eu countrys, inflation,high energy costs make it harder to save up for a deposit on a house

Sunny Disposition

The economy is still v strong, and in a sense that’s why I think the reasons for the disillusionment are quite interesting. Ordinarily in Ireland we’re fairly happy if there’s full employment.

But it’s like capacity is strained all the time, can’t get proper health care, school places scarce, months long waiting lists for driving tests, huge shortage of housing.

I think a big part of the problem is that even if you are working and on a good wage there are a heap of difficulties nowadays. Obviously the health situation is most serious, but housing is so expensive too.

The Irish public are already turning to the right I fear, SF still have the largest protest vote but a lot of people want less immigration, more support for workers than those on the dole and a Government that can deliver reasonable health care. The SF support is soft.

Is it soft? Why do you say that?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255896#Comment_120255896

This really is a shocker. That's taxpayers money for the most part. Only in Ireland.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259357#Comment_120259357

You can get houses for half nothing in Japan but culturally they are conditioned to want brand new ones. Also the not getting married thing is more complicated than the cost of houses

Padre_Pio

You would expect things would get better for all the money we pay in tax.

Honestly it's the same issues, different decade. Hospitals, housing, education, and utilities.

You'd think ONE of these would have been fixed to some extent in the past 20 years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259648#Comment_120259648

I have no problem admitting all genders, and never said otherwise, which is why your “typical male response” bore no relevance to a non gender related post on the topic of the thread. Whether you are a she, he or they makes no difference here.

I think you see what you want to see and then try to pick a fight with “typical males”. So far what I have seen from you is sexism, racism and xenophobia.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259652#Comment_120259652

Let me tell you, woman to woman, it wasn't and you are certainly not concerned about it. You ain't no feminist ma'am.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255365#Comment_120255365

Well the average house cost in the 80s was 42000 pounds. Adjust for inflation that's 84000e !!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260287#Comment_120260287

Population 3.4m 1980, over 5m today (that’s an increase of greater than the pop of the entire Dublin metro area) and many higher paying jobs than wage inflation since 1980, so comparing prices only on inflation, seems futile.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260296#Comment_120260296

Here read. Interesting.

https://www.housingeurope.eu/resource-1673/was-it-more-affordable-for-our-parents-to-buy-a-home-than-it-is-for-today-s-generation

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260287#Comment_120260287

It wasn't that high. I bought in Dublin in 1988 and the average was about 30k. However, there were plenty of houses (in varying states of disrepair) for between about 11k and 17.5k, which is what I paid.

It still took me two years to raise the 10% deposit, but the worst was when the interest rates hit the highest rates. Half my salary was not enough to cover the mortgage then.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260358#Comment_120260358

I do know if I remember correctly there wasnt this I could never afford a house theme that is going on now.

If ya done your sums right and were prudent enough. Yad get somewhere.

Even on your lonesome salary.

The thing that worrys me the most is the youth leaving in droves. Fook the economy doing well if it's the next generation is no better off from it all.

A country hollowing from its center wont do it any good in the long run.

A disaster in the making.

spurious

For reference, here's snippet from a May 1988 paper. As I recall, it was about April 1989 that the prices started to rise rapidly.I know I was offered 22k in April '89 for the house I had bought in Nov '88, before I even started any work on it.

It was 1998 (after much saving and a granny dying) that I eventually got in heating, got it rewired etc.. I'm not sure many young people nowadays would live how I lived for those ten years until I could afford to do it up.

clytemnestra

I see posters talking about how young people can to waste money on phones, holidays etc - there's no comparison. We are drowning in cheap mass-produced goods from China, stuff that was far more expensive in the past. I remember people living in flats who rented TVs and video recorders in the early '90s. Ditto with cheap airfares, it used to cost £250 or so - a week's wages - to fly return to London, it'd be like paying €700 today. Food was also a lot more expensive. What's become unaffordable is the basic necessities of life like housing and medical care. I experienced firsthand how for example, maternity services deteriorated due to overcrowding in the space of a decade or so, even as the country had got richer on paper. Same with school places; I remember when your child would just go to the local school, now they're bursting at the seams and you might have to travel 20 miles to get a place. Like a previous poster, I couldn't get help for a painful medical condition for one of my children and had to pay several thousand to go private as the alternative was waiting several years.

There's also just a weariness about the state of the place in general. You hear this nonsense about our high GDP but if you walk through one of our main train stations like Connolly, it's so unbelievably grotty and shabby and poor-looking. More Irish people have travelled now, and can see what a rubbish deal we're getting for our supposed wealth and the tax we pay compared to other countries. We've been promised a rail link from the airport for decades. I drive a road in my locality which has potholes the size of craters. The council street-cleaning has been cut so there's a layer of grime on the pavement that's been there since the winter. I can honestly say the place looked better in the 1980s, which shocks me, as where is all this tax money going? Not back to us, that's for sure.

BrianD3

It's far too simplistic to say things were worse in he 80s or blame social media. Society is different now and we have higher expectations - rightly so. Also, people didn't just wake up one day and decide on their own that their expectations were now higher.

If we look at just one minor example - the NCT. Introduced over 20 years ago and people grumbled about it but most came to accept and expect it as a part of modern life. System worked reasonably well. 5 penalty points for driving without a valid test.

However, now, because reasons, the system is in a heap and hundreds of thousands of people are driving around with expired NCT. But ah shur, that's grand as the Gardai and insurance companies "will take a pragmatic approach". Meanwhile, the operator of the service tries to blame no shows for the problem - gaslighting the general public in other words. This sort of crap angers people. If it was happening on its own it would just be a minor annoyance but it's death by a many small cuts and some larger ones. So many public services are in a shambles and we are constantly exposed to spin and bullsh*t. People can't get to see a GP and/or are sitting for absurd amounts of time in A&Es and then out comes Colm Henry to spin the problem as being down to a "large number of presentations". All this does is make people more cynical and angry.

If you are in great health and own a property with no mortgage and a well paying PAYE job and live in an area with low crime and are not struggling with eldercare or childcare or getting a school for your children then life probably seems great. If your life circumstances change and you start to rely on public services more, you won't be long getting angry.

DrivingMrDaisy

We have a great economy and a bad society. Government has concentrated on the economy over all else and the divide is now huge between those who have and those who haven't. You only have to read some of the replies on here to see some people have never been happier and that's fair enough but i know plenty who are at their wits end. It's fairness it's not just Ireland that's in real trouble i travel to the US on a regular basis for work and the poverty there is breathtaking in places.

Iv'e voted in every election since i was legally able but it's utterly depressing looking at the present options at the minute and i see no change to speak of going forward. SF look like they would throw the doors open to the world and make the problem worse but then again FG also seem hell bent on ruining us.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260576#Comment_120260576

SF have a lot of the people who would have been young FG or Pads of the past in their activist base now, unfortunately.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259623#Comment_120259623

I think a better way of looking at it is that a chunk of it is my money because I have a mortgage with AIB and when DJ Carey doesn't pay back his loans, everyone else (including me) who has a mortgage with AIB has to pay his loans. It's not the taxpayer who pays, it's the AIB customers.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260818#Comment_120260818

I have an AIB mortgage too. It's unreal.

But at least Paschal made sure the senior bank managers would get their bonuses again.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260818#Comment_120260818

The state owned AIB and still owns a majority chunk of it. Therefore the tax payer continues to pay for banking mistakes.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260841#Comment_120260841

Yep, the State owns about 57% of it but it's not the taxpayer who pays for banking writedowns, it's the AIB customers.

Look at it this way, when the Central Bank raise interest rates what happens? Are taxes raised to cover the bank's higher borrowing costs..........nope. It's not the taxpayer who has to pay extra taxes to cover it, it's the AIB mortgage holders who have to pay because the bank raises their mortgage interest rates. Same with writedowns. It's the customers who have to pay for DJ Carey's loan default.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260841#Comment_120260841

The only argument that could be made for taxpayers continuing to pay for banking mistakes is from the original bailout back in 2008. Taxpayers are probably still paying back interest on the loans taken out for that bailout.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260841#Comment_120260841

Fine Gael New Politics document 2011

Under Fianna Fail a political culture developed which ensured that the bankers and the developers were not dealt with before it was too late. A culture which tolerates cosy cartels and high costs in the private sector and ignores the need for radical reform in the public sector.

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120254815#Comment_120254815

You are.

Pubs and restaurants packed? Nah , not like back in the day at all. I remember when pubs were really heaving.

I moved back a while ago and the health service is shite, expensive and inaccessible, public transportation dire in places, school places extremely lacking, no guards to be seen almost anywhere, hotel costs insane and general cost of living has rocketed (almost everything except groceries are expensive and getting more so). My electricity and gas and fuel costs are at least 2x where I used to live. Car Insurance 5x-10x. Medical insurance roughly same but out of pcket costs in Ireland huge. My rent 3x. Need to pay for prescription drugs. Buying a house cheaper than where I lived but going up 10% a year. Many activities are scarce or expensively due to insurance costs. I used to pay 10% plus tax now it approx 40%. VAT is often 23% here whereas at most I paid 5% sales tax before. On top of that my salary is lower although I accept some people would move to Ireland and get a higher salary from poor countries. 33% tax on capital gains, 40% on deemed disposal ETFs. Crazy stuff.

Ireland is being run really badly and is OVERSTRETCHED. You can see it much more clearly if you haven't always lived in the fishbowl. The government is the main reason, taking well over 50% of all earnings with their various taxes.

There's basically no financial reasons for me to live in Ireland whatsoever.

SuperBowserWorld

Also, lest we forget, those of us on defined contribution pensions, or none, taxpayers bailed out AIB defined benefit pensions too.

Not only is the pension a very rare defined contribution one. Joe and Mary taxpayer, on lottery stock market pensions, pays for it and bails it out when it **** up.

It's a funny old world. Except it's not.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-beats-pension-crisis-after-11bn-loans-bailout-30740410.html

DrivingMrDaisy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259623#Comment_120259623

The old adage still rings true, owe the bank 10k and it's your problem, owe the bank 10 million and it's their problem.

DrivingMrDaisy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259879#Comment_120259879

If my car was broken and i took it to a mechanic to fix it and it broke down 5 minutes after i collected it from the garage yeah i might give him a second chance to fix it but a third, forth, fifth chance etc.. not a hope. Yet here we are with a broken country yet we've people voting the same mechanics into power time and again expecting a different outcome.

You get the government you deserve.

YFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260982#Comment_120260982

Well kind of true. Heard of Quinn?

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259761#Comment_120259761

Yes ironically Japan now has better value for housing than Ireland and even many other less developed Asian countries. Low immigration and low brith rates do have some concrete benefits.

Apart from the ridiculous taxes and fees on everything in Ireland the country has not really invested in expanding its services even with massive immigration. Running everything on a base built for 3.5 million not 5 or 6 million.

So you either invest more, allow private investment and deregulate areas such as GP services or limit the numbers coming in till you get a handle on it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260303#Comment_120260303

I did, and this quote from the linked article supports what I posted, using inflation alone as a metric is futile.

“The point to be kept in mind here is that an inter-generational comparison of housing affordability is never perfect, as there are too many variables to be taken into account – both in terms of obvious factors like incomes and property prices, but also less obvious socioeconomic issues that must also be considered.”

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252593#Comment_120252593

You see that's because you fall within a fortunate demographic. It's those in 20s & 30s most affected by rising rents and squeeze on property. And their parents in 50s & 60s, many of whom might have expected their 20s & 30s children to be more settled by now and not living back home as often occurs.

I expect the current government to get a right kicking in the next election, not that the alternative offers any better. But just because there are two large unhappy sets of voters.

maninasia

You hear this nonsense about our high GDP but if you walk through one of our main train stations like Connolly, it's so unbelievably grotty and shabby and poor-looking. More Irish people have travelled now, and can see what a rubbish deal we're getting for our supposed wealth and the tax we pay compared to other countries. We've been promised a rail link from the airport for decades.

Yup I was also shocked at the state of Connolly. It looks like a 3rd rate old station at the end of a grotty street. To get to the dart there's only one entrance , go up the dirty escalators in the open, then through the single entrance , then a long winding route past the trains to get to the dart platforms. There should be about five entrances into the place and direct from street level not thru the train station. So antiquated. And this is one of the country's main transport hubs lol. WTF are they doing with all the money?

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120261159#Comment_120261159

That fortunate demographic was the one who got a kicking in the last recession.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120261206#Comment_120261206

Yep and many of us Dubliners my age got saddled with 500k mortgages for a duplex is feckin Duleek or somewhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260959#Comment_120260959

In all fairness you have to answer the question why did you come back?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260967#Comment_120260967

While you do have a powerful point, pensions are not rare almost 60% of the working population in Ireland I lined the CAO statistics on this in another thread.

Better in the past and so on, the correct answer is not that it was better or worse it was different.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262561#Comment_120262561

Defined benefit or defined contribution ?

Defined contribution of the size provided by the tax payer to AIB management for a job tragically badly done are the stuff of dark fairy tales.

It wasnt me123

I think most of our problems lay with a government that doesn’t give a damn.

Population growing, why aren’t the government building new schools. Or better still, stop single sex schools and use all state schools for everyone.

Population growing, government close beds in hospitals and some A&E departments. Why aren’t they building more hospitals and to ensure we have staff in them - make all health/medical graduates work for 2 years in the system - and teachers and stop their 5 year career gap - all employees be treated the same, doesn’t matter if public servants or private.

No housing? Who’s not building? The government. Why aren’t they building houses. When we had no money in the 80’s we could build houses - housing should be back with county councils and anyone between the ages of 18 and 24 who is on social welfare should be made to work for the county councils, learn a trade and build houses.

We need aa change of government - neither FG or FF give a shite about you or me - if we made our TDs actually work for us and vote them out at the next election if they didn’t, then maybe they might actually do something for their big salaries, private health insurance and government cars with drivers.

I bought a house in 1998 in rural irish town on one salary for 45K punts.I lost it thru a bad marriage and will never get another mortgage and no chance of ever having a house.

Cluedo Monopoly

It is criminal how much money FFG have wasted over the last 2 decades. We should have much improved infrastructure, transport systems, hospitals etc. The MNCs windfall will not last forever.

Dante

Cut down on your internet and social media use and you will be mostly oblivious to all this apparant hate and lead a happier life.

It's very hard to get a handle on whats happening, apperently Center parks was full during the mid term despite the massive utility bills that's families with children, it's not the well of older cohort, on the other hand some are really struggling.

RobbingBandit

On the way to A&E now as my GP can't see me and has recommended going and asking to speak with psychological services am not hopeful of being seen at all and really don't think being in a crowded setting will help with how I am feeling.

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120269028#Comment_120269028

Best of luck with it, genuinely. From all I've heard about the mental health services in Ireland, you'll be lucky to get anything of value. One friend of mine was literally begging to be seen by a professional, told to take some Xanax and await a call. No call. I can't imagine trying to get help if you're having a breakdown, it must be nearly as tough as the mental health issue itself and certainly not what's needed if you find yourself in that situation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120269028#Comment_120269028

I wish you very well, hope you get seen to satisfactorily. There’s a psychiatrist guy in England I follow on Twitter who I consider inspirational, bern there himself and adores his work as an emergency mental health professional https://twitter.com/ahmedhankir/status/1587728680440274945?s=46&t=9EBcZ4PmFxZdIGxsuv1xgw

A lot of older people, like myself (born 1961) are doing ok financially in spite of small income. That small income is steady, I own my apartment plus a larger place that I let to good people. I’m single, don’t have children, grandchildren etc, my bit of money is my own, I skimp on socialising costs (restaurants etc) and save it for as much travel as I can afford, then I enjoy myself. This year I did my research in travel, and found that going selectively long distance with likes of Etihad is cheaper all considered than a week in Europe. Eg, I booked a week B&B in a five star hotel in Penang, all flights from Dublin to Kuala Lumpur via Abu Dhabi, internal connection to Penang, full 20kg luggage, private transfer total €1300. I tried booking various destinations in Europe adding all up, nearest equivalent was a four star for €1400. Ryanair and Aer Lingus are charging a relative fortune short haul atm, go Asia like Thailand and Malaysia for better bang for your buck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270736#Comment_120270736

Family member made a suicide attempt towards the end of lahst year. Took until now to get an appointment with Adult Services.

At the appointment, they were asked "are you having any suicidal thoughts at the moment?" They answered no.

Response was "great, we'll renew your prescription and see you again in 4 months".

That was it. In and out in less than 5 minutes, literally NO actual treatment, no, "how are you doing?" Just "Here are some pills. Go away".

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271205#Comment_120271205

I would well believe it and it is absolutely infuriating. It's turning into America, no way to treat people so just throw some opioids/benzos at them. First world country me hole.