Rewiring & Plumbing Costs at Present?

Carfacemandog

Myself and my fiancee are looking around at houses and are trying to juggle the trade offs between house size/location/work needed. We are noticing that some places seem great but may need a lot of work - things like floors and painting to remove that godawful 60s/79s look are not an issue and we can do most of that ourselves. We may want to move some things to open plan or extend, but those are the types of things you can sit on for a few years before making a decision so are not at the forefront of our minds (though we are keeping in mind space you could extend into).

One thing we can't seem to figure out though is the cost of rewiring and plumbing which apparently can be a considerable issue for mortgages etc. Would anyone happen to have an idea on how much it might cost to rewire and plumb a 90-100sq metre house (let's say a house built in the 50s with no work done on it in case that is also relevant)?

We know it won't be cheap and that there may be variables, but any ballpark figures might help - especially with the current market in terms of cost of supplies and cost/availability of tradespeople etc.

This would be in the Dublin area in case that impacts cost of labour etc.

Any help here would be very much appreciated!

herbalplants

I can't give you a ball figure but you need to consider that rewiring is a big job! Basically stripping the walls to bear bones. So you need work done after rewiring is done, plastering for once. Those god awful ceilings too that come in 70s houses, with their plastic rubbish design, would need plaster boards, plastering done, not an easy job especially on staircases.

I believe even finding the right tradesmen who can give you a quote is not easy.

Do mortgage providers have an issue with approving mortgages when houses need lot of work?

lmk123

€25-30k for Air to water, €12-€15k for rewire, not including anything else like slabbing hardwall or breaking floors etc. etc.

Carfacemandog

Thanks for the feedback! I reckon we can cover the painting and most of the flooring ourselves which materials are (relatively speaking) not too pricey for, possibly some plastering too though we might leave more complicated jobs/larger rooms to tradespeople since it doesn't seem too expensive (and we don't have kids yet, so house in a bit of disrepair for while with the lack of tradespeople isn't ideal but is manageable).

The heavier wall work plus obviously plumbing and rewiring - basically anything structural - we don't want to touch for good reason, but €12-15k while not cheap is less than I was expecting so actually fairly good news all in all.

Mainly we wanted to be sure we weren't stepping into an €80k job blindly and the horror stories you sometimes hear about those.

Air to water and such will depend on how the boiler is in the house and if we widn up somewhere we can, see ourselves for 15+ years, but if we do it would probably be something we would be looking at at some point, though depending on how much we still have after purchase, it might get put on the long finger for a bit. All the same, potentially prepping the house for it in other works we are getting done more immediately is something we will probably prioritise.

Re. mortgages it seems there is a bit of conflicting info, but I have heard some mention that lenders will only give you a reduced amount given if it is deemed that some bits like wiring and plumbing might reduce the value of the house.

lmk123

If at all possible don’t tell the bank about the works you plan on doing, they could break your heart looking for costs and Engineers reports and then go on to tell you that you can’t afford to buy the house and complete the works, the less you tell them the better, if the wiring or plumbing is a bit outdated etc. it probably won’t be picked up on except you tell them

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120261923#Comment_120261923

Seriously?

Sure a bank sends his surveyor as ultimately what you buy on a mortgage is what bank will own!

So it is not a matter of what you tell the bank, it is down to the surveyor and they go through in detail.

lmk123

yes seriously, in a lot of cases a person could move in and live with the old plumbing and wiring in place no problem, however they obviously will not have data points, wall lights, spots, heat recovery, air to water, u/f heating etc. etc. etc. An Engineer will not know if the wiring is correct or not, this would require an electrician to do an inspection, also an Engineer isn’t going to know if the heating is working or not, In a lot of cases the gas/ oil / water isn’t even running in the house at the time of the inspection, the surveys are more of a visual on the structure and a check to ensure it’s built as per planning if applicable, you absolutely do not need to tell the bank if you plan on doing work to the house after you buy it

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120261949#Comment_120261949

A valuation is required, a surveyor is not. Our valuation had the price we were paying, 3 properties close by that were sold for around the same price, and a brief description of the property to say it wasn't falling down.

Carfacemandog

Thanks again all for the feedback above.

I'm a bit baffled though, the other half checked with someone she knows in the industrt who is claiming replumbing and rewiring (0lus possibly 7-8 decent windows and 2 decent doors, if needed) on a 90 sq m house from the 50s should be €100k+. He's not 'up for the job' or anything so but just added his input which she's now convinced of.

Surely that's complete and utter madness unless you're going for obscenely high end materials absolutely everywhere. It's wildly out of line with any and every estimate I have read online (though granted a good few of these are from before inflation etc if the last year or so), and what I've seen on here.

We wouldn't need to get it done immediately, but 100k is just an absurd jump in price and kind of makes buying any older house a complete waste of time... if he's correct in his estimate!

herbalplants

I was only talking to someone yesterday, she got a quote for an extension below 40sqm, nothing included like kitchen /bathroom or the big sliding door. Quote was for 140k and another for 160k.

So your scenario above for windows and all for 100k is possible. Especially hard to get electricians.

lmk123

Maybe he was allowing for dry-lining and hard walling or new floors etc. I don’t know but if it’s €100k for plumbing rewire and those windows and doors it’s absolute madness, I did a 1930’s 1500 sq/Ft refurb along with an 800 sq/ft extension last year, wiring €11k, plumbing (A2W &UFH) around €23k, wasn’t in Dublin, I assumed I added on enough to allow for the location. The other user mentioned a small extension with a builders finish for €140-160k, that’s madness around here anyway. I’m in a different part of the country and know the rates around here, I’m in the industry too, maybe it’s double or treble up there I honestly don’t know. Might be better to ask a QS in the area. Let us know how you get on because I genuinely can’t get over this.

Carfacemandog

The whole market is decked far worse than I thought, or someone is trying to wind me up.

Found a house that didn't need rewiring of plumbing but has single pane windows throughout. I'm now having someone tell me that a bsthroom reno (on a preexisting bathroom) would need at least €15k.

I am also being told that this + 7 Windows and 2 doors would run north of €100k.

Seriously is going on at the minute? None of this adds up at all.

Edit - now the same ones are telling me €14k for those windows and doors but won't specify where the 64k is coming from since I've priced up all items (paint, flooring, underlay, bath/toilet/sink and some others) at 22k just going off homebase and the likes for a guesstimate. No wiring needed, no plumbing, no wall removal or anything of the sort. Floors and walls we would be doing ourselves, meaning 64k to install what would be an already-bought bath, sink and toilet in the same places where the original ones were/are. I'm sure there might be some materials I overlooked, but it seems like it's just pure cowboy territory at this rate.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293873#Comment_120293873

Yup, afraid so

Shelga

Hi OP, I bought my house nearly a year ago, same type as what you’re describing, except a bit smaller, maybe 70-80sqm. I don’t know about plumbing, but I got 2 separate quotes for rewiring the whole house and they were both pretty much the exact same figure, €7600. I don’t know if it would be more or less since then.

Carfacemandog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293995#Comment_120293995

Thanks for letting me know, though after finding an ideal place eager to sell that doesn't need plumbing of wiring, I'm getting told it'll be 15x that to install 7 windows, 2 doors and to fit a toilet seat and bath right now! 😂😂

lmk123

I’d say disregard what you were told and don’t ask them anything ever again

Carfacemandog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120295106#Comment_120295106

Absolutely! Problem is they work with the OH so she seems to be taking their word as gospel which is infuriating.

Found a family friend (or at least someone the family is friendly with) who is a semi retired architect, going to try chuck him a few bob to go in for another viewing with us and take a look at some things like wiring, plumbing, capacity to expand down the line, any other areas my admittedly entirely unknowledgeable eyes might have missed etc. Hopefully that will put it to be in terms of what is needed at what cost etc etc.

spaceHopper

If you buy a 60's house like we did expect to

Rewire (10K), new heating (15K), maybe new widows(10k), dryline (8K) the with 100 to 50mm insulated boars upstairs and down stairs. Say 50K would do a lot. If you want to go air to water, I wouldn't bother unless you make sure the house is airtight with heat recovery ventilation.

If you want proper costs as a QS.

If you don't do insulation it will be cold and you'll have wasted money on the heating.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283057#Comment_120283057

Tell them to hold tight the construction industry has contracted for the last 9/10 months meaning there is less demand for construction work and you have to take this information and using it with the record rate of new houses built last year meaning that construction of new homes increased meaning the likes of the extension work must be in a serious state of contraction and if it continues the gouging will have to stop or companies will be slamming into the wall. IMO 160k for that extension is taking the pi$$ all construction raw materials with the exception of plywood has been coming down over the last 3 to 6 months. Tell them to hold tight and when the work is completely gone which will happen after another interest rate hike or 2 as access to cheap funding will be gone the way of the dodo for a lot of people trying to get work done.

RayCon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283057#Comment_120283057

Jeez ... I got a quote recently for a 32sqm kitchen extension - Builder Finish (Not Painted / No Floors / Kitchen not included) for €68K. That included moving the boiler from it's current position & new rads in the extension.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120297543#Comment_120297543

A bit more reasonable but still overpriced if you can wait another 12 months prices for extensions will see a drop as the continuation of interest rate increases will stop a lot of people from getting work done and the lads in the game will actually have to compete again for work.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120297557#Comment_120297557

Yes it has to drop.

theboringfox

Im not sure it will drop. There was article recently on costs of blocks and cement rising 10%

Toby22

Hi a friend’s daughter bought a house recently, 1950’s semidetached. Got mortgage approval and having moved in, her Dad was doing some work and discovered house needed total retiring. This wasn’t picked up by bank surveyor so wouldn’t be too worried on that front. Don’t know the cost but do know they had awful trouble finding an electrician to do the job.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299952#Comment_120299952

The bank don't send a surveyor they ask you to get a valuation and survey is up to you. Did they get a pre purchase survey, it would have looked at the structure and might have checked the fuse board was a modern consumer unit. They likely recommended getting electrical checks done.

It's easy to sport of a house has old wiring. Are the switches and light fittings old. Are the sockets in the skirting boards. What does the fuse board look like.

Same with heating, are the radiators old, are the pipes copper or iron (gun metal)

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120261949#Comment_120261949

When we were buying the banks valuer was a local estate agent. All they did was have a quick look around, write the same crap they put on a house they would be putting up for sale and the last note is. For the reasons above [address] is valued at €xxxxx. ITs just a box ticking exercise that the buyer has to pay for.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301076#Comment_120301076

Wow. I get you.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120300752#Comment_120300752

I agree a person with a bit of knowledge would spot rewiring problems quite fast. People should bring someone with knowledge when they view a 1950's house.

fliball123

As I pointed out before 160k for an extension is a joke, keep calm construction output is down -11% in December 2022 from December 2021 that figure is down -7% on the year previous December 2020. So when you throw in that we had record new builds last year so there was an increase in output in that sector this means that the decrease is even bigger in areas like extensions. Another year of interest rate rises and other areas of spend that are necessities like food and energy and the big ticket items like extensions will have to see prices drops or those companies will hit the wall.

The figure for -11 is also down over a period where we were still in lockdown which when you think about it is fairly shocking.

The construction lads are having their final milk before reality sets in.

https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/construction-output

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301076#Comment_120301076

The main reason the bank require the house to be 'valued' is to ensure it actually exists. I have yet to hear a valuer disagree with the sale agreed price on the house.

There were cases pre crash where banks were mortgaged that did not actually exist. So it is a a box ticking exercise but an important one. The bank gives you a list of their recommended valuers and you picked from this list and pay them. The last few valuers I've seen knocking around were driving round in brand new top of the range cars. A handy gig no doubt and while not overly costly usually 200 to 300 euro it's another cost and someone getting their piece of the pie.

A pre purchase survey is generally the responsibility of the buyer to organise and get their own surveyor involved. They will essentially compile a list of observations and/or issues with the house that is heavily caveated by the fact that their ability to look at anything bar cosmetic is usually limited. A more costly thing to get from 400 to 600 and again I have yet to hear or see a situation who missed something big has ended up in trouble for it.

Another cost that the buyer picks up for what I would argue is a limited survey albeit on that can outline some issues be it in relation to planning, regs or safety.

magicbastarder

a quote we got for a for rewire in late 2019 (did not proceed due to lockdown) was €9.7k ex vat.

we've only managed to get two since - one about a year ago, €16.4k ex vat (that was 'we're not interested unless you really make it worth our time), and one more reecntly, i think approx €13k.