Urantsetseg Tserendorj murder: 17-year-old sentenced to life with review after 13 years

Pauliebigballs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270200#Comment_120270200

but but but, he was a kid that made a mistake, he didn't mean to stab her in the neck with a 5 inch blade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268067#Comment_120268067

Ah now come off it. Futile? Plenty of people who go to prison come out a better person due to these things. I’m all for punishment of crime but to suggest that we should just lock people up 23 or 24 hours a day with no access to recreational activities, mental help etc is ridiculous and shows a clear lack of understanding of how the system works.

Among the people who you’ll see in and out of prison as if it’s a revolving door are the people who get help and improve their lives.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270169#Comment_120270169

I see no merit in keeping someone who committed a crime (or several) at the age of 14 locked up forever. He now got a chance to turn his life around if he wants to.

There are people who should remain behind bars but not everyone who commits a “bad” crime needs to remain locked up forever. The boy was 14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270321#Comment_120270321

Fully agree here. There’s absolutely people who should never walk free again but they are the exception not the rule.

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270169#Comment_120270169

This is just incorrect though. In Ireland, prison is not only about punishment,

Whether you know it or not, or like it or not, rehabilitation is a core aim of the Irish prison service.

https://www.irishprisons.ie/about-us/care-and-rehabilitation/

Podge_irl

You can't lock every single person up forever, so the safest thing for society is that prisons are as conducive an environment to rehabilitation and eventual reintegration into society as possible.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270321#Comment_120270321

Re: being locked up forever - I did say "some" and not all in fairness

I don't think he should be locked up forever if this was his only crime, but it certainly should be a very long time, at least until he's 35, certainly not 28.

There's two children growing up without a mother now because of what he did.

At a sentencing hearing last year Detective Sergeant Brendan Casey said both of the teenager’s parents were chronic drug addicts. His grandmother gave evidence of him becoming involved in the abuse of drugs from an early age.

Det Sgt Casey said that the teenager had 31 previous convictions, including two attempted robberies and five robberies, one production of an article, one assault causing harm, and a number of drug offences.

If both his parents were drug addicts, he didn't have a chance to be fair.

Again, early intervention from Tusla/CJS is required here, he shouldn't have been on the street, he's 14 and he's pulled a knife on people before.

Unless he has something medically/psychologically wrong with him, then at 14 he should know the difference between right and wrong and knows that stabbing someone in the neck could kill them, even if he didn't mean to kill them. He did it anyway.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270439#Comment_120270439

I'm aware of the goal, but it isn't working.

Half of prisoners re-offend within 365 days of release.

Rehab will only work if they caught early, the longer that an individuals criminal behavior goes on, the exponentially more difficult rehab becomes. It will eventually reach a point where is becomes pointless and the only thing to do is lock them up indefinitely.

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270493#Comment_120270493

You don't have to lock every single person up forever, just the small percentage of the population that are habitual criminals.

You might, for example, choose only to lock people up forever after 30 convictions, in which case Ms. Tserendorj would still be alive.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270530#Comment_120270530

Recidivism is significantly lower in e.g. Norway, but given the overwhelming desire for punishment that is often seen when it comes to discussions on prison and sentences I do not think such a system would garner much support in Ireland (unfortunately).

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270758#Comment_120270758

I drove 4,500km through Norway last summer on the motorcycle. The only time we saw cops was on horse back in Oslo. We saw maybe one cop part from that. They are extremely law abiding. (Part of the culture they have as per determined by their climate)

We were told by one of the lads mates (who's Norwegian and lives there) that everyone obeys the rules and that there are very few cops in Norway. The ones present in the cities are there for tourists...

Paddy likes to bend the rules/grey areas/get one over the man/technicalities. So a Norwegian criminal justice setup would not work here.

We actually mentioned Anders Breivik to the lad and he was concerned that he was at the minimum 10 year mark since he killed all those people but was hopeful that he'd serve the 21 years and he also felt that after the 21 years he should be released. #themstherules.

Mark25

Goes without saying that I feel so sorry for the women that was killed abd her family still living with this.

The 15 year old that murdered her had a serious amount of conviction for somebody so one and is clearly damaged goods and there are reasons for that. I know some people would like to see him locked up until he is an old man and maybe you are right but he is still so young.

The sentence is long. 13 years is a long time to be locked up for and it is probably the best chance he will have to make something of his life although he will always be a murderer and has to live with that. At 18 he will go from Oberstown to the main prison system so he won’t have things handy forever. It is good for him and everybody else that he is locked up for now.

I say that as someone who has been in prison twice – nearly 10 years ago by now. For a while I would have been what people call a scrote and did some **** things. I had got into trouble a few times and eventually got locked up. I had heard all the stories and looking back now I was **** myself going in but couldn’t show it. That first time was only a few months and didn’t really change anything. That was when there was stil some slopping out and 3 to a cell so was pretty bad but got to know some of the lads there and got on with it. Second time I was a bit older and was pissed off at myself for being caught and going back. I wasn’t worried like I was the other time. Because I was there for 18 months on that second sentence and because I wanted to change things went better. I kept the head down, tried to stay away from the aggro, got the training and education I could and when I did get out ended up sorting myself out, going back to college and now have a mostly “normal” life. Point being prison was a positive for me the second time around and it wasn’t because I was locked in a cell for 24hours a day and only got fed bread and water or anything like that. People don’t seem to understand that being sent to prison is meant to be the punishment. I would say that looking back it would have been better it I had of got a longer sentence the first time as it was only that that meant I really had the chance to sort myself out.

I know my situation was different and not nearly as serious as this one but just giving another view on this.   

  

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270321#Comment_120270321

You have to laugh at lads on the internet, framing the narrative with the phrasing, "someone who committed a crime or two".

Just a crime yeah? Could happen to anybody sure.

Why don't you have the balls to say what he actually did, which was murder a woman in cold blood? Is your argument on the internet so important to you that you can't even give the real victim here the dignity of acknowledging what happened to her?

Anyone making excuses for this criminal or playing down his crimes should be forced to spend a few hours with the victims family.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270987#Comment_120270987

Why so hostile? They’re just expressing an opinion. Yeah the young lad murdered a woman. A young woman I understand.

He has from what I understand stabbed her in the throat or neck area? Disgusting.

Should he be locked up forever for that? No.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270968#Comment_120270968

Thanks for sharing your story Mark. Really powerful stuff to hear from someone who’s been through and come out the other side. Glad you managed to get life back on track and all the best in future as well!

Pauliebigballs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271283#Comment_120271283

If you're asking about facts of the case on this thread, maybe you should educate yourself and read the court report? Still deem yourself able to comment on the boys sentencing though!

nullzero

Any murder should carry a sentence of at least thirty years.

Our criminal justice system is far too lenient.

Let's remind ourselves that this young man unprovoked stabbed a woman to death on the street in our capital city.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271316#Comment_120271316

I am not asking about facts I am simply unsure of the nature of the stabbing other than knowing she was stabbed.

The fact remains a kid did something seriously wrong and is being punished for it but some here would suggest that he should never see daylight again which is unreal to me.

I’m also not defending anyone in particular and certainly not what he did and you know that but don’t let me get in the way of your disproportionate outrage.

You couldn’t give a shite about this woman you’re just here to cry and yell about the sentence. You make no mention of her in your OP simply just making quips about how it’s “not much deterrent”. Get off it coming after me as if you’re some sort of martyr for murdered women.

The whole point of this thread was to decry the justice system yet again a collective of arm chair experts who know everything about the effects of rehabilitation in prison.

No, sure look just lock em up forever that’s exactly how we stop crime.

Pauliebigballs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271345#Comment_120271345

"I am simply unsure of the nature of the stabbing"

I'll help you out so, he stabbed her in the neck with a knife during the course of a robbery and she is now dead.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271374#Comment_120271374

When I said nature I meant where exactly.

Okay wow the guys worse than Hitler, life in prison? No we need to bring back the death penalty! This is crime of the century!

Terrible for her family and friends, not disputing that, but to suggest this chap should never see outside again over it?

Disagree.

Pauliebigballs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271388#Comment_120271388

I never said he should be locked up forever, but do believe 13 years in a cushy Irish prison is not much of a deterrent to stop the current crop of 14 year olds going out and doing similar. This mob over in Ballyfermot today know exactly what's facing them worse case scenario, and are more than happy with it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271411#Comment_120271411

Have you ever spent any time in a cell, be it prison or a garda holding cell at all?

Pauliebigballs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271428#Comment_120271428

Yes

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268489#Comment_120268489

Normal 14yr olds don't prey on vulnerable women and stab them in the neck. Being 14 is no excuse for a crime like this. Any halfwit knows there's no excusing behaviour like this or rehabiliting the scum who engage in it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271447#Comment_120271447

And even despite that (because I have had to as well for mental health reasons cos of a passing comment I made to a doctor they took waaaay too seriously), I was there for about 4 hours and I never want to spend another minute in one.

13 years? I’d go fcuking batshit. It’s easy to think 13 years in a cell is no biggie but this kids 17 man. By the time he leaves he’s going to be 30. He’ll have spent a good portion of his adult life in prison. He won’t know what a normal life is and may not experience it til he’s 30.

His 18th, 21st, 30th bdays all spent in prison. I don’t feel bad for him by any stretch but if there’s kids out there planning to stab some poor fcuker cos they think prisons easy then they’ll be in for a rude awakening.

The fact is look at America for example if he was tried in the states he’d be looking at life I bet. Life over there fcuking means life. Does it reduce violent crime?

Does it fcuk.

Pauliebigballs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271475#Comment_120271475

13 years for you in prison with nobody you know or have nothing in common with, is not the same as a 14 year old with 30 odd convictions and dozens of sparring partners inside that he already knows.

A rude awakening for you is not the same rude awakening for others.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271507#Comment_120271507

Again if these kids don’t fear prison then the sentence is an irrelevance. If they are not bothered about being there why would they be bothered about the time they spent?

I’ve watched a ton of prison documentaries (I find them really interesting tbh) and a common trend among the prisoners who speak on camera is this idea that people who’ve been to prison are tougher as a result & therefore the toughest guys in the gang/group/whatever are the ones who’ve done long stretches.

So a guy who does 20 years is going to be harder than the guy who did 1 year. They also almost always hate the prison and want to get out. Prisons not fun or a holiday camp. Yes, we are definitely softer than the likes of USA but even there prisoners can have TVs, Xbox’s etc it’s not exclusive to us.

But when you have no control over your daily life for 10, 20, 30+ years I can tell you one thing very few people want to deal. Remember this fella and the ones like him are used to doing what they want, when they want to, not when someone else does. And they behave the way they do because doing what others want is just not gonna happen for them.

I just can’t imagine anyone in prison right now if they were asked telling you they enjoy themselves there and would happily take an extra 10 years on their sentence.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270987#Comment_120270987

You (and many others posting) seem incapable of discussing the topic without letting your emotions run wild. Nobody denied that he needed to be locked up, but you swear to god he was a seasoned serial killer.

Yes he killed someone, but this descent into violence didn’t just happen over night. Ignore it all you want, but don’t be surprised the next time it happens because it will.

Mark25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271283#Comment_120271283

Thanks. Was a long journey but more or less got there.

Definitely agree that nobody wants to be in prison - I definitely didnt and everybody would walk through the gate if they could.

Its true that those who have done the long sentences seem to have the reputations both inside and out and are the most respected/feared.

I met lads in there whose Dads or uncle ir brother had been in before abd they usually coped with it better. I was from a "normal" family - brother was a Garda - and nobody else from my family had been in trouble before so they were ashamed. I knew a few lads tbere a bit giubg in but no friends or anyrhing but fitted in after a while but trying not to get sucked into some of tbe **** that goes on.

2 years that I got seemed forever fir me in my 20s so 13 years for a teenager is alot. The dats drag out and there is nowhere lonelier than 8pm when they lock you in your cell fir the night. Believe me.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271741#Comment_120271741

Honestly, I can’t say I know from experience but from what I’ve heard and watched it’s all well and good to act up on the street but when you’re faced with following someone else’s routine day in and day out for a few years or whatever you don’t feel like such a hard man tbh.

Like I snuck me phone in with me past the garda when they put me in cell but I think without it I’d have cracked haha.

It’s just so weirdly isolating being sat there with literally nobody to talk with at all. It’s just you and a few walls, a concrete slab with a what felt like a gym mat and a metal toilet.

13+ years of that? Fcuk no thanks. 😂