Roald Dahl's books edited to be more 'inclusive'

NeutralHandle

My kid lives The Twits.

The first half is about a vicious old couple pranking each other to the point of attempting murder. The second half is about them trapping birds inhumanely, then being killed in a horrific manner when a family of monkeys that they abuse escape.

It's the only non-picture book he is particularly interested in. He's a very nice kid, no attempts at murdering people or abusing animals at all.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280261#Comment_120280261

The report above is true, it been reported in numerous publications.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277942#Comment_120277942

His biographer's opinion and some other folk who knew him is irrelevant to me.

I am the audience. I was over 30 years ago and currently still are the audience from reading my own collection to my young son.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280356#Comment_120280356

...yet.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120281521#Comment_120281521

His biographer's opinion and some other folk who knew him is irrelevant to me.

Good for you, but we can't have a meaningful debate if you keep shrinking down what you deem relevant.

So we will leave it there.

Hotblack Desiato

How often do we hear that a film from 20 or 30 years ago is to be rereleased in a "director's cut" ?

I don't hear the perpetually outraged saying they will boycott cinema as a result of films not being released exactly as the director intended.

brokenbad

"Woke-ism" gone mad

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282345#Comment_120282345

I suggest you look up the meaning of the phrase 'comparing apples and oranges'.

magicbastarder

i always thought that was an odd way to phrase the idea. apples and oranges are more similar than they are different, surely?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282547#Comment_120282547

They're entirely different - only similarities are they're both spherical and go in your fruit bowl 😁

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282345#Comment_120282345

If Roald Dahl had suggested the changes being proposed by Netflix, etc, then you might have a point.

But he didn't, cos he's dead.

This is merely a case of an American media company making silly, and COMPLETELY unnecessary, changes to material based on nothing but a veneer of "concern" for some nebulous individual who, might, just maybe, on a slight off chance, get mildly upset at something.

Hotblack Desiato

Yet films get re-edited all the time after test screenings and nobody gives a shít. "Hollywood ending" has even entered the lexicon.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282635#Comment_120282635

Netflix couldn't give a flying fúck about the contents of the books, they are going to butcher and "reimagine" the series to the nth degree anyway, just like the original Charlie Willy Wonka and the Chocolate factory movie.

The review into the wording was initiated by the family before Netflix got involved.

magicbastarder

again, the seemingly most egregious edit that i have seen referred to seems to be that text has been changed which apparently originally essentially stated 'women who are bald are witches, and you should pull their hair to check they're not a witch in a wig', to 'women can be bald and not be witches', in a kids book.

they're not changing the ending, like. they're not changing the skin colour or gender of major characters, the story is still the same, the message is still the same, the text is 99.99% still the same. it's more a stylistic change than removing ideas from the book.

in another edit, the word 'fat' has been changed to 'enormous'. maybe they should have changed it to 'gammon' for maximum shriekery.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282725#Comment_120282725

You're missing the essential point, though. Movies get "director's cuts" with the approval of the director (even if the results are less than satisfactory a lot of the time). Test screening edits may get approved BEFORE a movie hits cinemas. But that kind of thing generally only happens with big tent pole crap like a Marvel movie or some such.

These are wildly different scenarios to what is happening here with Dahl's stories however.

magicbastarder

it's usually the producer who makes the decision to re-edit a movie, rather than the director, i suspect? i suspect the director's 'approval' is down to his boss being the producer.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282758#Comment_120282758

stylistic change

I'm still confused as to why “most formidable female” was changed to “most formidable woman” tbh...

o1s1n

The film comparison does not hold water as such edits are for entirely different reasons than the edits to these books. I'll go back to my 'apples and oranges' above.

Is the reason for the Roald Dahl edits to make the books a more complete vision of what the author had in mind? (Ie; a directors cut?)

Is the reason for the Roald Dahl edits to make the books shorter and punchier? (Ie: a theatrical cut?)

We all know it's not. they're being edited for entirely different reasons, which is what are important in cases like this.

I know there is a loud 'anti woke' (Christ I hate that term) brigade jumping on this, which I am not part of by the way.

It is possible to disagree with changes to literary works without having vested interests in the whole left/right fuckkery on Twitter.

TherapyBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282758#Comment_120282758

I’ve got no problem with what they’ve changed the words to Magic, I have a problem that they changed the words at all.

Not seeing where this leads is dangerous.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283203#Comment_120283203

At a guess - 'female' is used as a dehumanizing noun as on it's own we don't know if it means a cat, a dog or a person. 'Woman' acknowledges that this is a human person. I'd like to think that if there was a reference to muscular male that it would be changed to man. Its a pity the alliteration is being lost in the ff example.

'Female' on its own is just not a good way to refer to someone in text written in the 3rd person (which I believe this segment is).

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283219#Comment_120283219

I know there is a loud 'anti woke' (Christ I hate that term) brigade jumping on this, which I am not part of by the way.

The whole point of the story was to sir that up.

The revision was flagged by the family over 2 years ago.

The telegraph made someone, I imagine an unfortunate intern, pour through the amended books and compare them with the originals, line by line.

Then they released their RageBait "scoop".

It was never about or designed to be a reasoned discussion around "changes to literary works".

Which I actually agree with you on fully it is a discussion worth having. But it probably ain't happening.

gormdubhgorm

I think it is important that the original works remain untouched as it demonstrates the authors thoughts and language. Of it's time.

For example I remember seeing a very old book from about the 1800's in it there was an imitation/parody of the speech of a black American of it's time. 'Yes masser' and so on. It was shocking at first to see it in print. But that was the reality of the world and society then.

As for the Roald Dahl books I honestly don't think there is much that is offensive in them. To find offence you would have to go looking for offence. I remember as child I just took the books as enjoyable stories adventures where your mind was able to escape into the story.

Eoinbmw

It's a massive publicity stunt and it's going great for them !

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283273#Comment_120283273

I think we should give kids a bit of credit here, I'm sure they'd be able to infer from the context of the story that we're talking about a human teacher, rather than a cat or horse

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283343#Comment_120283343

I was only explaining my guess at the logic behind this change. Didn't really want to get into the rights or wrongs of it.

I think on balance this is an OK change to be honest. 'Female' on it's own is a dismissive, negative descriptor. And I don't think Dahl meant this sentence in such a negative way. If you are going to edit the books (and I'm still open about the rights/wrongs of it) then this looks a sensible change to me.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283112#Comment_120283112

It depends. Usually, at the editing process, the director is generally involved. It really depends on the type of film we're talking about. They'll submit a cut for approval, which could be subject to further cuts or reinstatement of previously excised material.

But this is usually a collaborative process. Again, though, it will very much depend on the type pf film. For instance, on the aforementioned "Marvel crap", you'll have an army of producers with varying levels of umph and usually a director for hire. On something like a George Romero movie, he'd be working in a closer relationship with his producer (even though they certainly didn't see eye to eye all the time).

In any case, cuts and edits to films are usually done with pace and running time in mind (which is an essential part of the editing process), as opposed to what's happening here with Dahl's stories, whcih appears to be of a more airy fairy nature...and into the bargain, completely unnecessary too.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283319#Comment_120283319

And these revisions will be seen as 'of their time' also...

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283549#Comment_120283549

I thought of that as well in 30 or 40 or 50 years time what will be viewed as abhorrent? It will be the unborn future generations that decide it.

And the really auld lads like meself will be really confused about about what you are supposed to say and not. Thankfully by that stage they will likely say he is a very elderly, he doesn't understand.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283305#Comment_120283305

I see it has now been 'decided' to keep the originals in publication as 'Classics' and sell them alongside these newer revised versions.

The whole thing kind of reminds me of New Coke. Only one will prevail, remains to be see which.

Larbre34

So the crashing U-turn has come.

Penguin Random House (who own the Puffin publishing brand for Kids) are going to continue to print the Dahl originals under the main Penguin brand itself, usually intended for all non-child focused titles, as 'The Roald Dahl Classic Collection'.

“At Puffin we have proudly published Roald Dahl’s stories for more than 40 years in partnership with the Roald Dahl Story Company. Their mischievous spirit and his unique storytelling genius have delighted the imaginations of readers across many generations.

“We’ve listened to the debate over the past week which has reaffirmed the extraordinary power of Roald Dahl’s books and the very real questions around how stories from another era can be kept relevant for each new generation.

“As a children’s publisher, our role is to share the magic of stories with children with the greatest thought and care. Roald Dahl’s fantastic books are often the first stories young children will read independently, and taking care for the imaginations and fast-developing minds of young readers is both a privilege and a responsibility.

“We also recognise the importance of keeping Dahl’s classic texts in print. By making both Puffin and Penguin versions available, we are offering readers the choice to decide how they experience Roald Dahl’s magical, marvellous stories.

“Roald Dahl once said: ‘If my books can help children become readers, then I feel I have accomplished something important’. At Puffin, we’ll keep pursuing that ambition for as long as we make books.”

Francesca Dow, MD, PRH Children

“The last few days have demonstrated just how important Roald Dahl’s stories are to fans all around the world, and we’ve been deeply moved by the strength of feeling.

“The most important thing to us is that the stories continue to be enjoyed by all. Puffin UK’s plan to print two editions of the book will give readers – whether seven or 77 – the choice to explore the stories in whichever way they wish.”

Netflix - The Roald Dahl Story Company

A carefully stage managed retreat evident there. I have no doubt the vandalised versions will be quietly killed off, once the money already invested has been recouped. Although maybe it never will be.

Might be worth actually investing in the edited versions now, for sale as a rare curiosity in years to come.

Boggles

And that folks is marketing.

Bravo.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283305#Comment_120283305

The revision was flagged by the family over 2 years ago.

The telegraph made someone, I imagine an unfortunate intern, pour through the amended books and compare them with the originals, line by line.

Then they released their RageBait "scoop".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283843#Comment_120283843

Quantum Erasure

Of its time, 12:35 pm to 2:29 pm

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283920#Comment_120283920

You have widely missed the point.

The family never wanted to initiate a debate on literary revision. Nor did the telegraph obviously.

Dahl was very much in danger of being "cancelled" because it came light once more in a resurfaced interview of how much a vile person he was.

No one is talking about that anymore are they?

Quite the opposite, we just had the loudest perma contrarians in the media practically threaten to go war for the mans works.

tayto lover

https://www.rte.ie/news/uk/2023/0224/1358649-roald-dahl/

A bit of sense now.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283994#Comment_120283994

So it should be ok for dweebs to go back through the history of people who created art, be it music, literary works and so on… and on a ‘judicious’ decision on behalf of some rabble of lonesome dweebs with nothing better to do, said artist(s), author or whomever, gets ‘cancelled’…edited or whatever… ?

i think in a civilised and mature society, people should have the ability to make up their own minds… don’t like Dahl, don’t read his work, easy.

What has gone under the radar is the Rolling Stones, playing live last few years they’ve changed the lyrics to certain songs…Brown Sugar… “ just like a black girl should “ no longer features…..

Considering rap artists can be anti white, anti Asian, extremely and absolutely unapologetically and openly homophobic in their lyrics and literally, yet, nobody cares, nobody requests rewriting the lyrical content, editing, or cancelling 🤪 why ? Complete double standards, jokeshop double standards…..

Nothing ‘inclusive’ there so….

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120284098#Comment_120284098

So it should be ok for dweebs to go back through the history of people who created art

The "dweebs" were his family, the owners of the copyright. 😕

Brown Sugar

The lyric references a female slave being raped by her "owner".

It was Micks decision to censor it.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283203#Comment_120283203

I’m still confused as to where people read it was “formidable female” when I was able to show in print that it was “formidable middle-aged lady”, who does things like this 😁

https://youtu.be/rp8FeBZW21E

Netflix knows well what they’re doing, and Penguin knew well what they were doing before then - their only motivation is to generate revenue. I mentioned the example of The Witcher in another thread - the Netflix adaptation makes many changes from the books, some small, others more significant -

https://www.looper.com/824404/the-biggest-differences-between-netflixs-the-witcher-and-the-book-series/

You wouldn’t know unless you’d read the books (and thankfully they were translated from their authors native Polish), which it seems a lot of people did after the Netflix series was released -

The Witcher series has been described as having a cult following in Poland and Central and Eastern Europeancountries. They have been translated into 37 languages and sold over 15 million copies worldwide as of December 2019. Two weeks after the Netflix TV adaptation was released in 2020, revenue from the books was reportedly up 562% compared to the same period in 2018. Entries in The Witcher series have earned Sapkowski the Janusz A. Zajdel Award three times; "The Lesser Evil" (1990), "Sword of Destiny" (1992), and Blood of Elves (1994). The Last Wishwon the 2003 Premio Ignotus for Best Anthology. Blood of Elves won Best Novel at the first David Gemmell Awards for Fantasy in 2009.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Witcher

Good luck finding Matilda the Musical on the Irish Netflix btw (I’ve checked just now and it’s still unavailable), only the DeVito movie is, where the same scene above is done like this -

https://youtu.be/ntirWguFrfM

Something to do with whomever pays the piper… maintains the rights to the IP (not Tim anyway 😂) -

The star also explained that Matilda the Musical was funded by Sony as well as Netflix, and as Sony is not a streamer, it ‘retained the rights to release the movie in the UK in the traditional manner.’

https://metro.co.uk/2022/12/31/tim-minchin-sorry-matilda-not-available-on-uk-netflix-explains-why-18019113/amp/

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120284142#Comment_120284142

yes, words and song lyrics and in print and music often relay tales of unpleasant tragedy.

again, no pressure though, whatsoever on the rap fraternity not to be racist themselves, not to be extremely homophobic, not to be threatening and glorifying violence against men, women, up to and including… murder, rape, and truckloads of misogyny :). But….Mick can’t sing Brown Sugar ? 😬😅 ffs. Good one . Jeez.

and Mr Dahl, after his death, not inclusive himself to the point there is a clamour to rewrite him ? 🤪

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120284178#Comment_120284178

Is there any thread you won't drag this constant racist bullshít into?

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282345#Comment_120282345

Never mind...already said.

castletownman

I despair for current society if people are finding offence in children's books. At the current rate of mollycoddling, the whole world will self-combust within the next two generations.

They'll be "editing" the Mr.Men books next to pander to the minority again.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283096#Comment_120283096

How exactly is it "wildly different"?

johnfrank1967

Editing children's books and Gormon corrupting children's mind with his sexology. Yea we are on to a winner here.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120285564#Comment_120285564

There's generally only one 'creative mind' behind writing a book, working with proofreaders / editors etc. but generally the story comes from the mind of one person.

With even the most low budget film, there'll be multiple people with creative input into how the finished movie appears on the screen

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282725#Comment_120282725

Compare the Credits on the movie (100s, if not 1000s of people, studios etc) and the credits on a book (often single author). and people give out about studio editorialization all. The. Time.

So I don’t see the apples to apples there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280356#Comment_120280356

I love how the first 3 chapters are a personal rant against beards 😂😂

The book that really stood out in my child’s upbringing was the enormous crocodile. We had great times with it .

from my youth apart from the two Willy wonkas and James and the giant peach was revolting rhymes, loved it.

life was tougher in the past , kids raised themselves and got on with it .

prime example of kid’s entertainment that looks horrific nowadays is return to oz , it’s like a horror nowadays 😂

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120285564#Comment_120285564

Because the creator of the work wasn't involved.

Cluedo Monopoly

I only heard about this today. Crazy stuff. Society is moving into a worrying place but I think it will be somewhat temporary as bigger problems emerge.