Zero political centre or centre right, solutions!

relevanc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301080#Comment_120301080

Totally agree and had a lovely laugh reading your points lol

All this ‘far right/left’ is nonsense, must people would like a more centred approach that is based on sound economic and social policies that are sensible, affordable and realistic and hopefully doesn’t involve taking on even greater national debt!

MegamanBoo

I think I've realised what's happening in this thread...

Both the left and right are doing their best to disown FFG.

Let's agree they're populist above anything else and deeply incompetent.

As a leftie (I'd like to think non-woke) I'm equally worried about the increase in state spending where that spending is wasted as badly as it is.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301210#Comment_120301210

Political parties, especially innately cautious and conservative ones like FG, are always more focused on the bird in the hand than the two in the bush and suspicious of claims they could reap a massive electoral dividend by making a specific radical policy shift. If all major political parties maintain the current consensus on refugees & immigration nobody wins or loses (much) over the issue and that suits FG okay.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301305#Comment_120301305

The idea would not be to increase the spend on housing but to for the money to be spent directly building houses rather than through the private market.

If you look at the construction forums you'll see the cost for self-builds (where labour is employed directly) coming in at about 1,500euro per square meter down the country, that's about 150,000 for a typical semi-d. The state has land to build on and should be able to use it's legislative power to buy development land which wouldn't add much to this cost.

While construction workers can earn a lot at the moment, I think many would be attracted to having the state as a stable long-term employer.

Making the switch would involve managing construction labour directly, and would ruffle a lot of feathers if some existing public service jobs had to be displaced/redirected. It would also cause havoc among the wealthy to think the state could undermine the value of their investment assets.

It won't solve the housing problem overnight but we need to go from this cycle of boom and bust periods. During booms we can't build fast enough, during busts construction workers have to emigrate and many won't return.

I believe it (or a switch to a completely libertarian model) is the only long term option.

Privatizing all these state-services is a failed experiment. I think from here governments should be measured on how well they can manage public services effectively.

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120300708#Comment_120300708

We only had 10 commandments in the old days under the Church

I see from the BS above the woke crowd have gone one better with 11 (obviously you change them slightly to see the mind map.lol)

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301694#Comment_120301694

So that figure is for rural Ireland but I added it to show how much of a typical build goes on materials and a more normal cost of labour.

Trade labour costs are very high in Dublin right now but I think a lot of that is guys going searching out the highest market rate knowing a bust is likely around the corner. I think a lot of tradespeople would take a long-term rate rather than risk having no work in a year or two.

The other costs which make Dublin more expensive are where the state could use it's power to remedy. Tax unused development land heavily, release state owned lands and allow higher builds.

I would propose a phased move of the allocation of housing budget which goes to the state purchasing and long-term letting from developers, to state construction. As state construction increases rent requirements will decrease where the state won't have to rent from the private market.

Not an overnight fix but the only solution as I see it. Short-term I don't think there are any fixes. Contracting in foreign firms to build, which is now extremely difficult because where would we house foreign construction laborers, might have been an option. Maybe pre-fab builds short-term.

As an aside, I didn't realise that HAP payments came from the housing department. I had thought these came from different welfare and health schemes. Can someone tell me if I was wrong on this, or if it changed recently.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299853#Comment_120299853

That's certainly interesting but I'm a bit wary of headline figures like this.

It seems in Ireland the top 1% of earners pay 22% of income tax, in the US generally seen as less progressive than here, they pay 40%.

https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1212/average-net-worth-of-the-1.aspx

Several sources put the amount of wealth owned by the top 1% at about 50% of the world's.

If we applied that to Ireland the headline figure would be, Top 1% holds half of all wealth, pays just 22% of income tax.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302638#Comment_120302638

I’m confused by your line of thinking here. Income and income tax is not necessarily related to wealth.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304253#Comment_120304253

Sf want to increase rate for over 100k or thereabouts. Certainly not bad as many are massively overpaid if working for rte or the state. Its an issue for private sector for sure...

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120298789#Comment_120298789

You can keep saying it, but that doesn't make it true. Nearly all of those governments support nearly every left wing social policy imaginable. What seems to get them judged as being "right wing" by posters like yourself is simply the fact that they are capitalists. These posts too never actually have any leg work, you simple call them right wing, without ever making an argument as to why they are right wing. Likely because it would be a very short and unpersuasive argument.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304376#Comment_120304376

Not necessarily, I appreciate there might be people with inherited wealth not bring in new income.

But there does seem to be a strong relationship, worldwide it seems about two-thirds of all new wealth generated since 2020 has been acquired by the top 1%.

At that level I'm sure for the most part you're not talking income tax because there wouldn't be payroll as we understand it.

But I think it's a valid point to say that the headline statistic is questionable on it's own, ie looking at income tax contribution without the context of how much income or new wealth is acquired by that group.

Murph85

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2023/0227/1359128-why-doctors-are-leaving-ireland-for-australia-in-droves/

If sf increase tax rates over 100k , wont help with the mass exodus of people we want to stay, that are leaving. The flip side of the coin is many, many working for that amount for the state in civil service, rte etc are overpaid and it would be no harm...

maninasia

Increasing taxes on those on 100k plus will be like an upper cut after already getting kicked in the balls. 100k plus is getting into middle- senior manager territory, they want to penalise you for being successful and working hard, in many cases for decades.

On 100k you already pay 35% all in and on 120k you already pay 38% all in. And THEY WANT TO INCREASE THAT? What is the point in working for your bonus, doing overtime then? Why should a doctor, an IT professional, an entrepeneur setup shop in Ireland then?

In Asia I only paid 11-13%% on those kind of salaries after rebates.

maninasia

You have to understand the level of wealth in the US which far surpasses Ireland. They have further grades going into the 1% of the 1%. Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Walmart Heirs and Elon Musks of this world....

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320261#Comment_120320261

I think we'd have plenty of super-wealthy in Ireland too. Maybe not in the Gates/Bezos league but I'm pretty sure there were plenty of Irish connections in those Panama papers.

Personally, and as a self-confessed leftie, I would agree that it's questionable taxing doctors or upper middle management more.

My hesitance would be that it seems to me, and I'm open to correction on this, that we rely a lot on non-payroll taxation and costs in Ireland. I think poorer and middle income people then would pay a lot more proportionally towards taxes and costs on fuel, education, day-to-day services etc.

I would also think that there's plenty of people in Ireland who don't pay the same level of taxes when they acquire new wealth because they're doing so through favorable tax structures and not hit with payroll taxes to the degree the rest of us are.