Italy V Ireland Match thread

fitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287754#Comment_120287754

Agree with this. The POM/Doris/VDF backrow is clearly the most effective in terms of how we playing. Conan didn't do anything today to advance good case to start instead of any of them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287754#Comment_120287754

I dunno, to me there's something confused and not cohesive to how our back row works with him at 8 and Doris at 6. He showed up for a good few carries, but wasn't that effective with those carries. I don't think he did enough for me, to justify not having a look to see if Coombes or Baird can offer more off the bench.

AbusesToilets

Can we agree now that Aki shouldn't play 13? He's absolutely at sea in defense, dog leg after dog leg. Doing no favors to his wingers and Lowe needs all the help he can get. Real missed opportunity by Farrell to not play Osbourne or JOB.

Our backs were pretty slow, Ringrose and Keenan are the only 2 with some decent gas in their positions. Be nice if Balacoune could sort his form out ahead of the WC.

Eoinbmw

We are blowing too much smoke up Scotland arse France will expose them tomorrow!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287810#Comment_120287810

We must have the slowest back line in world rugby.

Also, you could make the argument that our 9-10-12-13 combo today is about as unathletic as any we've fielded in the past 20 years. Each one of them have at least one clear athletic deficiency.

wittycynic

Good to see us dig in and find scores at important moments to close out a really difficult match.

Positive also that the bench made a positive difference but there are some worrying issues coming out of it.

Can't really understand positive views of Byrne coming out of that came. Sure he didn't make any glaring errors but he was ponderous and did little to unlock the Italian defence. Kicking was also iffy. A very decent club player, but it shouldn't be surprising that a guy who will be 28 in a few weeks, and who has never looked like a top international up until now, is unlikely to become one at this stage in his career. Its a real problem area for Ireland because if he's our starting 10 against quality opposition we are unlikely to play well. Really hard to imagine Byrne is our best option here.

Aki really wasn't great defensively in the 13 channel and Conan was largely anonymous. Must be difficult for Coombes to look at that backrow performance and still not get a look in, despite his form.

Lil Fred

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287644#Comment_120287644

Billy Burns or Carty might get another shot. Perhaps Ian Madigan should be tried again?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287795#Comment_120287795

Doris is just too good at 8 to move and Conan is not good enough at 8 to justify moving him.

I think today made clear that POM, VDF, Doris is Irelands best trio.

Conan either competes with POM for 6 or he sits on the bench.

Lil Fred

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287754#Comment_120287754

He was hopeless. Beyond poor and will be out of the 23 v Scotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287826#Comment_120287826

Did little to unlock Italian defence?

His passing and decision making was centrally involved in two of our tries (and two of the tries where a player spilled it in grounding), and numerous other good moments in attack. We scored five tries, and on three other occasions we spilled a ball within 5m of the attacking line. We put 34 points on the board. He had a good game, made a lot of good reads in attack and distributed well.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287821#Comment_120287821

We could pick Larmour and Baloucoune on the wings and we'd have loads of pace but the trade off in footballing ability would be considerable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287873#Comment_120287873

No, I get that, I'm not saying I'd change it, just remarking on the fact.

phily2002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287834#Comment_120287834

Do tell what he did that was beyond poor?

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287863#Comment_120287863

There was a period in the second half before he went off where we looked very rudderless in the Italian half. We ended up coming away with nothing after a multiphase headless period with no ideas and no leadership in attack. The difference in the very same situation with murray and Crowley ten minutes later was night and day. Otherwise I thought Byrne was ok but that period said a lot, Italy on the rack and no idea how to take advantage.

Clegg

Lowe and Hansen are a bit loose in how they play, but they add so much to our attack with their ability to act as secondary playmakers. Much like POM/VDF/Doris is our nailed on backrow, Lowe/Hansen/Keenan is the nailed on back three.

JRant

We are a tough crowd to please. The pack did well today, including Conan who got through a mountain of work, along with Ryan, Doris, and Hendo. We got burned on the outside a couple of times today but when you're missing Ringrose and Hemshaw at 13 it's going to be tough. Aki looked rusty in defense and I think Italy targeted him excellently today.

Hansen and Lowe did their bits and looked very dangerous in attack.

Casey took the wrong option on a number of occasions but he's still learning at this level.

Byrne was solid today. Created some lovely tries today and unlocked the Italian defense a number of times. Folks giving out about his kicking don't seem to realize that he was clearly instructed to keep the ball infield with the majority of his kick. One area he was poor were his up and unders. Thought they lacked a bit of hangtime and placement.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287905#Comment_120287905

No, to me, that sequence you're describing was the exact sequence where I thought Casey was at his poorest. He made a poor decision twice in terms of what direction to attack, and killed our momentum. He got hauled off immediately afterwards. Casey did the same in the first half when he panicked on a penalty advantage and threw a sloppy attempted double skip out wide on the wing that didn't get there. It's not on Ross Byrne if the ball isn't even really getting to him a whole lot in that position.

He did unpick their defence multiple times today, including for the Bundee try in the corner that was ruled out by the knock on.

I don't know what situation you're describing where we looked much better with Crowley, as he was only on the field for the last 3 minutes. Byrne was still on the field when we scored our last try (and that was all Murray and Doris' work).

degsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287834#Comment_120287834

Scotch???

razorblunt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287795#Comment_120287795

Yeah, you can't laud a player at 8 for carries in the tight or "smashing the 9". Every big carry he showed up for he got driven backwards.

Time for Coombes to take the bench.

Munsterbhoy

I'm glad Casey + Byrne started even though they both were a mixed bag. Giving them big game experience is exactly what was needed especially Casey. They may potentially start a WC q/f or even a s/f they way our half of the draw is.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287928#Comment_120287928

yeah, casey’s decision making was poor but I felt like RB needed to boss those moments rather than leave Casey to it. He didn’t seem to actively organise the attack in the way this team usually operates. And I’m not suggesting he should play and manage exactly how Sexton does. But I’ve no doubt these scenarios are war games extensively in camp and I saw RB remain pretty passive there when there was a clear opportunity to put the game to bed.

He did play well as I’ve said, but that sequence was problematic for me.

phily2002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287945#Comment_120287945

Why would you not laud a player for smashing a 9, that's exactly what you want your players doing. He made 21 meters from 9 carries, similar to Dorris. He got hit hard a couple of times but so did the whole pack. The Italians tackling was pretty impressive.

He played the wide role POM plays. He was similar to POM vs France but carried more. He also didn't turnover possession at all(POM did 3 times against France), yet people are saying POM was brilliant against France and Conan beyond useless...

Clegg

Having POM on the pitch definitely frees up Doris to make those impactful carriers and metres post contact. But it's incredible that Doris can still make those carries in the later stages of the game. He's been doing it for years too. His fitness is incredible.

wittycynic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287863#Comment_120287863

The Italian defence was less than spectacular, as they ably demonstrated at many points throughout. We should have been generating far more in the way of chances and Byrne was fairly uninspiring for a lot of the game.

Byrne has never really looked impressive at international level, which is why he has featured so rarely for Ireland. Today was no exception. He's not the answer and the quicker we try to give chances others with higher ceilings, the better.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287989#Comment_120287989

The Italian defence today was actually really good. They had a higher tackle accuracy than we did (91% tackle accuracy versus our 83%, off a larger sample size), and were really aggressive (albeit borderline offside a lot imo) around the fringes of the ruck.

You're not citing any actual examples, just repeating an opinion ad nauseum that you don't think he's international standard. You're claiming he didn't unlock a defence, then when you get shown multiple times where he clearly did, you claim he should have done it more.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287989#Comment_120287989

we try to give chances others with higher ceilings, the better.

Such as??

Wailin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287760#Comment_120287760

Clueless comment. Scotland will hammer Italy at Murrayfield and will beat Ireland too if Ireland play the way they did today.

ujjjjjjjjj

Kinda predictable the game, Italy flattered a bit due to the intercept but we always had a bit of room. But big learning is neither Aki or McCloskey defensively good enough. Think now is the time to accept it and back Osborne to sit in behind Henshaw and Ringers. Murray clearly the backup atm for JGP, Casey isn't ready or good enough.

In the pack encouraging from O'Toole and Baird looks like he has to be involved.

Lil Fred

I see Conan got a 5/10 rating from the Irish Times. That’s very generous tbh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287962#Comment_120287962

So you're basing this opinion on one specific sequence where we didn't manage to score in the Italian 22?

The sequence you're describing - Casey gets hauled off a few minutes later. So it would appear as though the coaches though he was more culpable for our lack of directness there than Byrne.

Watch Byrne's involvements in the disallowed Bundee try - he gets on the ball three times during the attack, and his very last involvement is a great carry right to the gainline where he slips a pass away to Hansen at the last possible moment wide, allowing Hansen to slip it back inside to Aki. It's the definition of unlocking a defence.