Italy V Ireland Match thread

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291419#Comment_120291419

Fair enough. The mechanism for how they got there might be different.

Ardillaun

Not too labour the point but I’m surprised no team has been able to make our relative lack of pace in the backline a more serious liability. Hansen, in particular, is vulnerable to the chip as the Italians demonstrated. Once he’s passed that’s it. Aki is the same. I guess it’s a tribute to how well organized we are these days.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291515#Comment_120291515

Speaks to Keenan’s kearneyesque ability to cover the back field. He shows up just in time very often.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291579#Comment_120291579

Keenan gets credit from pundits but not enough of it considering how great he has been.

pickarooney

Byrne got fairly roasted in the French press. Lowe got most of the plaudits.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291373#Comment_120291373

I am fully aware that we do it and we get away with it too. It's an art form. The point is when both teams are doing it, our plays look more ponderous and it's why our backrow looked ineffective (compared to France/Wales/NZ games) and we didn't convert more opportunities in the scoring zone. We have never seen an Italian pack ruck and counter-ruck so well.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291419#Comment_120291419

Exactly.

They play their own system. Catt didn't land here, ring up Lancaster and cog his notes.

They pick mostly Leinster players because Leinster have the best players. I don't think there's a gameplan we could adopt that would result in a different split among the provinces tbh. It's just how it is.

They pick the guys who can play their game. Hansen came from nowhere to first choice Ireland player and the guy probably never even met Lancaster. McCloskey was in the wilderness for years and now look at him. If you'd told me a year ago that Bealham would be rock solid as starting tighthead AND a fulcrum for complex backline moves, I'd have reported you for trolling. But these guys are thriving under Farrell and Catt. See the comments from Baloucoune about being told exactly what he needed to work on, which is exactly what Lowe and Hansen are best at. There's no big secret here.

Unfortunately the corollary is that if there are players who adapt to the Irish game very well, there are others who can't do it with the same success.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292249#Comment_120292249

Yea, that’s a good point. The key to slowing down ireland is at the breakdown. If you can get away doing it illegally, you should.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291515#Comment_120291515

Italy almost exploited that yesterday. Byrnes chase was glacial. I never realised he was that slow.

Luckily Casey was able to get to the ball first to prevent a certain try

leakyboots

Just on pace - three times in two games Lowe should have finished a try that I'd back nearly any other winger in the 6N (or from our other options) to convert.

To be fair to him he's great for an offload from the tackle and rarely gives up the ball, and has that big boot, but his lack of pace can frustrate.

leakyboots

It's interesting the different perceptions we have - Casey has made the RugbyPass team of the round.

I wouldn't have had him there personally but I thought he had a fine first half and then tired, a couple of poor kicks/passes before he was taken off.

I think some of the criticism of Aki is a bit unwarranted - he hasn't touched a ball in ages and parachuted in to 13 unplanned, give the guy a break. He was immense going forward, could have done better in defence.

Was delighted with Kelleher's showing, Tom O'Toole also. Our bench was used well apart from Crowley, dunno how he wasn't given more of a run.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292559#Comment_120292559

I watched it again today and i actually thought both byrne and casey were good. I also thought Aki was great going forward. Its weird how your opinion can change on second watch.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292559#Comment_120292559

Yep, thought Casey was good. A few wayward kicks in his latter minutes but did fine.

think some of the criticism of Aki is a bit unwarranted - he hasn't touched a ball in ages

He did play the first two rounds of the 6N... the interception put a bad slant on things and he gave away a soft penalty in the second half but on balance he was good.

leakyboots

The interception was poor but it also looked like Byrne hadn't hit his mark to receive in time.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292559#Comment_120292559

Aki came of the bench in the 1st 2 rounds. The lad can't play 13 at a very high level.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292568#Comment_120292568

He was great in attack, but woeful on defense. There was a semi permanent dog leg between him and Lowe. Farrell should've played JOB or Osbourne, who've both shown a high ability to play 13

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292787#Comment_120292787

That dog leg was usually Lowe shooting out of the line. Happened 3 times at least leading to 3 line breaks and 1 try

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292874#Comment_120292874

Yeah, except this isn't true. The Cannone line break that led to Varney's try was absolutely on Aki.

Bundee does not have the pace to defend the 13 channel, and was guilty of trying to play Ringrose's game of shooting the line, and he got it wrong multiple times.

Lowe didn't have these sort of issues in the first two games of the 6N with Ringrose defending at 13.

Akrasia

I watched it back in slow motion. Lowe bit in, the French drove into the space behind him and Aki didn't have the pace to catch him to stop the try.

OldRio

I'll just leave this here.

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1629914511128797184?s=20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292915#Comment_120292915

Well maybe look at it again -

Start at 6:41 on the clock, where Bundee has been caught ball watching. He got sucked in towards the ruck where he didn't actually do anything, and now Garbisi is attacking the Irish blindside, with 4 players outside him or coming around the corner behind him, and Lowe on his own effectively. Keenan at this point has to try to accelerate up to help Lowe.

Bundee's positioning is completely off on this. He's not able to impact Garbisi at all, and isn't there to help on the outside. Lowe reads it badly too, but he's been left badly exposed here by the player defending inside him.

From then on, Aki has another chance to save the try, but he gets absolutely burned on the outside by the Italian No 8 (funny how lots of people, yourself included have pointed out numerous times Ross Byrne getting burned by a guy who started games on the wing in this 6N, but there isn't as much talk about this scenario where Bundee gets burned by an 8, when he's closer at the point of Cannone receiving the ball).

You're saying Lowe bit in like it was the difference, but by the time Lowe even had a decision to make, he was facing a 4 v 1 because Bundee got caught twice getting disconnected from the players around him.

I'm genuinely baffled how anyone could watch that try from start to finish and not recognise it is absolutely on Bundee - his poor decisions, poor positioning and lack of pace.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292874#Comment_120292874

of course, not true in the main

here the build up to the varney try for example. Aki gets sucked into following the dummy runner (no 6) and teh ball is played to the back of the triangle to varney. in the grab here, you can see that lowe is facing a 3 on 1. The call should have been for a drift defense much earlier, but aki has made the decision to cover the 6 and ends up on his heels. Lowe has to gamble and shoot onto the 3rd man in, but varney throws a lovely skip pass and takes lowe out of the equation. With keenan and Byrne in the back field its simple numbers to make the break. Aki actually gets back to get hands on cannone but slips off the tackle. Had he made it Byrne was covering the support and the try could have been prevented.

heres a different angle just before the pullback. You can see ireland are actually numbered ok, but that Doris is covering the 6 dummy runner. Aki bites in where there was no need. That meant that Lowe had to shoot. You can also see the positioning of ross byrne in teh back field. Its him eventually that gets across to tackle the no 8 Cannone.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292498#Comment_120292498

to be fair he was tap tackled on that very last play against italy which took any acceleration off him.

I do agree that the first chance should have been finished off but if i was picky id be having words with keenan for not taking capuozzo out of the equation. lowe should have had enough there to finish though.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292983#Comment_120292983

Good post. This is where Ringrose is so good. He reads the game so well that these situations just generally don't occur.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292976#Comment_120292976

Excellent analysis as ever FTD.

Refreshing to see facts being given. Some posts here are just conjecture.

Looking forward to see you back in the Ireland thread

pickarooney

Conan will not be auditioning for scrum half any time soon

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292891#Comment_120292891

Is this tactic of 13 shooting up set in stone now ?. Bundee did it several times, disrupting their backline even if he misses the tackle, much as GR does.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293929#Comment_120293929

I have to say Aki's biggest weakness was that he played shooter without being able to make a suitable resd that he should play shooter.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293929#Comment_120293929

I wouldn't say it's a tactic necessarily. Ringrose doesn't do it all the time; he chooses the moments judiciously.

It's obviously a risk - both of dog legs forming with either the 12 inside you or the winger outside you, or of a big miss pass getting past you and creating an overlap out wide which is especially dangerous.

The goal with it isn't always necessarily to make the hit - it's defending as opposed to tackling, it's to close off options for the opposition and direct them back inside.

I think it's tailored based on the opposition strengths and what we think they're likely to try to do - but the Italians were very visibly trying to get the ball to the wide channels early and often.

Really good piece here from back in Sept 2019 on it:

https://www.the42.ie/analysis-ringrose-ireland-defence-scotland-4821866-Sep2019/

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292976#Comment_120292976

Good post but it's not that baffling. People will see what they want/need to see. It's obviously not a coincidence that the one game Ringrose is out and we're playing a scratch centre pairing that our midfield defence goes awry.