Burning..

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309537#Comment_120309537

Bet you haven't the foggiest idea what that map depicts..

magicbastarder

umm.. ok? you want me to respond to that? i don't generally respond to vacuous ad hominem.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309211#Comment_120309211

What encouragement was this?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309529#Comment_120309529

Sure, but prosecute those who commit the arson. Is it proper or improper if someone is knocked down in your area and you get prosecuted because you're local and own a car?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309313#Comment_120309313

ok but what has that got to do with setting uplands on fire?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309211#Comment_120309211

this is one issue with conservation, in that often it adopts a 'frozen in time' approach; you have areas of land, say with heather, which are like that due to human intervention; and the approach is 'conserve what's there' - which often means conserving the human intervention too. it's the approach of 'conserve what we know is there and we value' rather than 'what should this place actually look like'.

whereas another approach would be to try to let the area return to what it would have been if there had been no human intervention in the first place. but AFAIK there are concerns that many areas may have irreversibly flipped - i've seen commentary that swathes of molinia may be self-sustaining, so to speak, and they're the result of burning, etc., but left alone would stay that way.

80sDiesel

Every field wants to be a forest.

If left alone , scrub, then trees would grow and shade the gorse thus preventing its growing. You would get birch hazel holly at the beginning and end up with an oak forest teeming with life. It takes patience in both growing and acceptance.

But it will be a forest eventually. We can either stand in it's in way or be a part of it.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310378#Comment_120310378

me use small words for you so.

and the point you make is amply demonstrated in the map i posted above, i assume?

the paper the map appears in, is here; the ecological integrity score is combined from three factors - loss/prevalence of megafauna, fragmentation of habitats, and how pristine or degraded the environment is.

https://www.idiv.de/fileadmin/content/Files_BioCon/wildereurope2020.pdf

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310378#Comment_120310378

Burning isn't the issue, it's the attitude of some farmers, (most farmers in kerry) who set fire to the land without any consideration of its effects and just walk away and leave people and property at risk. The hills of kerry were ablaze this week with property at risk and the fire service and the tax payer picking up the tab. There was absolutely nothing controlled in what I saw while I chocked on the smoke.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310524#Comment_120310524

Same in Louth. Fires were started in Cooley and just left for the fire service to get a call to come and get it under control. It's not the burning, it's the lack of attempts to keep it controlled and no consideration for damage to other property.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310524#Comment_120310524

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310609#Comment_120310609

There you have it from two ends of the country.

It's not anti farmer to say this must stop.

We all know the hills have to be managed but that's an argument for another day.

Packrat

It is beyond belief that the blatant attacks, generalisations, and general denigration of farmers is allowed on this - supposedly a farming forum.

This kind of trolling is allowed on exactly NO other topic specific forum on this site.

The lack of forum bans is shameful.

Moderator/s - hang your heads in shame, you are no friend to any farmer while you allow the likes of magicbastarder and his open hate of farmers air here.

Are you afraid of his status on the site or what?

If you have any integrity - Act.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311865#Comment_120311865

Don't paint everybody with the same brush.

magicbastarder

If you think any of my posts are objectionable, your best bet is the 'report post' function. I was being reasonably polite, I thought.

roosterman71

Not too far from me there'll be gorse fires galore over St. Patricks weekend on a hill. The same hill which has been walked into the ground by humans traipsing up it to have a fine view across the countryside. It's a farmers private land, but can't do, and doesn't do a whole lot to stop the daily pilgrimages. There's fences in shite from people climbing over/through to go up the hill. It's not the landowner who starts all these fires but the people who descend on the place for the tradition of climbing it on March 17th. Going by the logic here, this farmer should be hung drawn and quartered for causing the fires and then billed for any expense to control them if they go out of control. Do posters here think the fire starters in this scenario are setting up a controlled burn or worried about what happens if it starts to get out of control? They are well gone off the hill and enjoying parades/pints/something if it goes to shite.

What's been stated here around these fires is pure speculation as to who started them. It's pure speculation (wrong in my opinion too) that if a farmer started a fire to manage the hill that he/she would simply walk away once they threw the match down. That's absolute fantasy thinking really and boils my piss of this attitude of farmers of been piss poor at anything and not giving a **** as long as they sit back and collect fat cheques from someone for doing "nothing"

..

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312445#Comment_120312445

So all the uncontrolled fires around kerry were set by unknown persons who weren't farmers and derived no benefit from their actions and the innocent landowner just happens to get the benefit of it to enhance grazing.... Am I right in parsing what you wrote?

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313858#Comment_120313858

You are not but fair play for asking for clarification 😀

I gave an example of what's happening 5 miles from me, and will happen on the 17th again.

What I am saying is that any fires a farmer sets for reasons is unlikely (not guaranteed) to be just some one throwing a match and walking away. Firstly they'd have to inform the council, the fire brigade and maybe others of their intention. I know ya have to do that if yer burning bushes and I presume it be the same for a bigger fire such as we've seen. Furthermore, a farmer will lose all payments on that land (if they are claiming) as a result of an illegal fire.

I suppose my post was more about people jumping the gun and straight away blaming farmers. These people don't have a notion as to who has done what. And don't seem to know the actions needed by farmers in order to light a fire in the first place. The council and fire brigade have to be told.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313927#Comment_120313927

Well fires that come within a whisker of homes and valentia lifeguard station were nothing but uncontrolled, reported to the fire station or not. No one has come out from any side to say they had been reported. I'm sure it would have been shouted from the rooftops, as would a fire lit by someone other than the landowner(I've heard no farmers on radio kerry shout arson.) So it's fair game to say it was a farmer and was uncontrolled.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313944#Comment_120313944

Dog on the street mob justice hey, who needs evidence, just hang them after a "fair" trial.

My brother was witness in a court case last year over wildfire done near kilorglin. Man in audit hopped out of his car and lit the fire then took off. They got his reg# and few photos and reported the incident. The ahole was no farmer and from the outset the non farming people(lovely people that they are) blamed it on farmers.. look it up, was in the papers.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313944#Comment_120313944

Fair game to say uncontrolled. Anything else is speculation.

And it seems this was legally started, with permission and it spread uncontrollably.

There were fears locally that sections of the woods in Killarney National Park could be destroyed after a large fire — started as a controlled burn in a designated area of special conservation — spread.

The National Parks and Wildlife Service had been notified and had given permission for a control burn in the Mangerton area.

What actions were done to control it before starting is open for discussion here.

According to the article farmers are penalised if they don't clear the land.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41082074.html

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314146#Comment_120314146

That was the fireman, was it?

Not sure if he was a fireman, could have been.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314263#Comment_120314263

I think so, it sounds familiar

magicbastarder

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40787097.html

...

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311865#Comment_120311865

Mod note; we are monitoring this thread, while the issue is a thorny one it needs to be discussed. Just be aware that farmers and non-farmers are going to have different opinions on the subject.

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309985#Comment_120309985

Dept make no effort to find culprit Just fine all shareholders on commonage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314357#Comment_120314357

True

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313944#Comment_120313944

this is the part i have difficulty dealing with. if we are to accept it's not farmers, do we have a secret campaign of arsonist non-farmers, co-ordinating all over the country, from louth to kerry, setting fire to land that's not theirs, at this time of year? where is the IFA on this? why is there not absolute outrage from them, complaining about the land belonging to their members being criminally set ablaze?

i just checked their twitter feed - not a peep. it's the dog that didn't bark.