Picard 3x03- 'Seventeen Seconds' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

ilovesmybrick

Picard 3x03- 'Seventeen Seconds' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** } Warning: This thread will contain spoilers 

~Rebel~

An ok episode, some fun stuff in there. Nice to see the changelings back - hopefully they're used well going forward.

Really did a number on Beverly's character though, comes across extremely badly. Her reasoning for not telling Picard about his son is very weak - especially considering she threw him into a life of danger doing black market smuggling etc anyway. Stewart's performances have been a wee bit ropey in the season so far (purely due to age), but he was excellent in that scene with something meaty to get his teeth into.

The whole portal device element seems totally pointless... like, a single quantum - or even photon - torpedo would've done much more damage. And the shrike just seems to be using it as a toy to play with the Titan - they could've disabled, or destroyed them many times over at this stage if they were so inclined. It's like one of the writers had just been procrastinating playing Portal, and decided to lift it exactly and throw it into the "insert thing here" space up on the whiteboard.

Rafi's still a struggle, though Worf was kinda fun (if a bit over the top). The pacing is starting to drag a bit though, we're 3 hours in now and still in that first nebula, in that same first conflict - one episode could have gotten us to the point we're at now if they weren't dragging things out.

Also really not sure I really buy that last exchange between Riker and Picard. Picard gave his suggestion, it was Riker's decision to act on it and give the order. And then he banishes Picard from the bridge in full melodramatic style when it doesn't work out?

eadrom

Pretty good, not great, though I'm still really enjoying the series overall.

Rafi still a real low point and it's a pity Worf has to play against her.

Picard and Beverly scenes were good and it's just great to be getting some of the 20 years in-between filled in. Whether it's great, good, or just alright, it's certainly more interesting than the last two seasons. Not telling Picard about his son is a bit of a stretch though alright, but sure.

Also agreed with @~Rebel~, that last scene with Picard and Riker, and Riker's attitude toward Picard throughout really, seemed a little uncharacteristically harsh.

Cool to have the changelings back, for some reason I wasn't expecting that. Although I often think they're just too powerful an enemy to be honest. Like why stop at impersonating a lowly gold-top, why not do Capt. Shaw? Or Picard for that mater?

Spoiler in case anyone hasn't seen the early teaser trailer from a couple months ago:

Spoiler Warning

I think it's a pity now that they've shown Lore in the promotional material. I'd been anticipating his reveal in this episode and now I'm still waiting. I'm guessing that's what was stolen from Daystrom?

Hopefully we'll find out in the next episode. Annoying to be waiting for a "reveal" of something already shown to be coming, and feeling like I know something that the characters are still oblivious to. I guess that's the danger of watching trailers.

Also, Titan is growing on me. Good looking ship.

Frakes directed this one, too.

AMKC

An OK episode. Yes they really ate dragging out them being in the whatever it is that looks like a nebula.

I thought that last scene with them hitting themselves with there own weapons was hilarous.

I also do not agree with them last scenes between Picard and Riker. Riker made the ultimate decision but Picard did put a lot of pressure on him.

I think the Shrike was just enjoying messing with the Titan.

Cool to have the changelings back. Really was not expecting that.

I too agree again about the Raffi scenes been hard to watch but these were a bit easier with Worf there. I must say Worf has changed a lot and for the better too. Not sure I like his rather bland choice of clothing do.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304259#Comment_120304259

The whole portal device element seems totally pointless... like, a single quantum - or even photon - torpedo would've done much more damage. And the shrike just seems to be using it as a toy to play with the Titan - they could've disabled, or destroyed them many times over at this stage if they were so inclined.

Agreed she could have severly disabled the Titan and gotten Jack Crusher without all the messing around.

pah

My frame of reference here is the first 2 seasons and in that regard I think they are knocking it out of the park so far

corkie

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Seventeen_Seconds_%28episode%29

As others have said it is starting to drag, part 3 of a 10 hour movie.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8806524/episodes/?ref_=tt_ov_epl

Spear

Well, I'd say my bit of speculation about that random ensign was about 66% right.

I quite liked it, though there's issues. There's simultaneously a significant advancement to the plot, but also very little in other ways. They're still in the nebula, but the big bad is finally revealed. In effect, this is both Picard season 3 and DS9 season 8.

My own interpretation of the Riker/Picard clash, is that Riker is now the more mature and responsible captain, and the legendary Picard called it wrong. The student has become the master kind of thing.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305116#Comment_120305116

Yeah, sure this is it... I have a lot of criticisms of it, and yet at the same time it's exceeding my unbelievably low expectations, so I come out of each episode with a net positive.

Slydice

Damn that got pretty intense at the end! Like between Riker and Picard. What I really liked about the whole episode was how it was shaped to be all about leadership and the smallest of differences in it!

Anyway, Raffi to be throwing stuff at Worf while he reads out poetry by the end of the season maybe? 😁 Certainly had that look about them a few times and Worf was sounding a bit poetic 😂

fritzelly

Thought it was a great episode but damn why do they have to keep cutting to Raffi - save it for one whole episode we can all skip

ilovesmybrick

Small bit of a drag and I found Picard and Crusher's (B) conversation a bit overwrought, like how many assasination attempts in a week??

As with the previous episodes Picard and Riker are fantastic, and I absolutely loved the slight look of disgust when Picard realised Shaw had made Riker captain over him. That tension between the two of them is quite nice, it's natural, and it shows that the main characters are human with human flaws. Without it having to be literally explained by a character on screen.

I found the scenes with Raffi and Worf a bit jarring, it broke the tension and the tone change was a bit much. And that torture scene with Raffi did the character absolutely no favours whatsoever.

Fine, decent enough and moves the story forward a bit. As long as this place setting comes along quick enough happy out.

Wonder what they stole from Daystrom....like they're promising an awful lot here, changelings, the TNG crew, Lore, massive gravity well...

TheValeyard

I felt this was a much better episode than the last one.

I thought the scene between Picard and Crusher was very well done. Both had very valid points. We also got a bit more info on Picard during the in-between years.

I am liking Captain Shaw more and more, I see him less as Captain D1ickhead.

Changelings were unexpected but an interesting plot usage. I like it.

Worf is awesome. Like an elder guardian. Still a warrior at heart, but the knowledge and experience of when to use it. And his ultimate weapon is to somehow make Raffi, less likely to suck.

Cat and Mouse chase was fun.

Portal weapon was interesting, funny how to sent back the torpedoes. I expect it to be part of some lockbox on STO.

_Kaiser_

Good to see the Changelings back. Nice reference to Odo as well from Worf.

That last scene between Picard and Riker though is just very out of character - both from a professional perspective (you don't argue like that in front of the crew, and you certainly don't tell them they're all dead!), but Will has basically been completely behind Picard up until this point - suddenly he's going to throw him off the bridge??

Raffi continues to be the weak point of the series.. Not sure why she wasn't just written out. Worf is probably closest to the character we remember though in terms of mannerisms and his development. He was never your typical Klingon and learned to value his human upbringing and mature through the 2 series he was in. It seems probably the most natural path (with the exception of Riker perhaps) to where he is now.

I don't buy Beverly's reasoning for cutting Picard out of his son's life at all. She knew the man better than anyone else and how she decides he just lives too dangerous a lifestyle after what.. 15+ years serving together is nonsense! Especially because she would have known how affected he was by the death of Rene and Robert, or the loss of his 'family' from the Inner Light etc - all things that helped him grow as well.

But, it's still a lot more like the TNG followup we should have had all along. From what I've seen from YouTubers who've watched the whole thing, it should start really picking up next week.

Optimus Prime

Was not expediting changelings ! I thought they where all going to be holograms.

Riker is clearly the changing though right ?? He was way off the last few scenes.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120307836#Comment_120307836

Well there was theories re the tie in to DS9

Ohh and now we know its those changelings does it tie in to S2...wormhole...

Evade

I liked the scene with Picard and Beverly. Her having already lost a husband and a son (as farcascshe knows at least) makes it understandable and it would have been very easy for the writers to make her right just because but there was some nuance to it.

Shaw putting Riker in charge to get them out of the mess he caused was a little contrived but he's in the big chair now so I'll allow it. The change in the Picard Riker's dynamic was fun. Before Picard was cautious (mostly) and Riker was the more brash now they've switched roles. I think the end was a little overdone though even if Number One Picard could have done with a refresher on the etiquette of question the captain's orders. And there was some real (intentional?) irony in Riker pulling an "I'm the captain" after the first episode's events.

Geordi's going to be at Daystrom isn't he? I don't think Lore is the secret weapon that was stolen, I think he'll be at Datystrom and knows something about it so he'll have to tag along.

I wouldn't have thought Changelings but let's see where it goes. Worf seemed kind of surprised he vaporised it. It's nice to have Worfield back.

They're still trying to tell that Raffi is important/valuable/etc without showing it.

The shakey cam in the conversation scenes is annoying.

I think the 10 hour movie thing is showing up a lot of pacing issues when it's all done a re-cut would be nice.

I'm a bit surprised at how much I like Mica Burton's character (despite the fact they forgot Geordi is a good pilot in his own right). I was prepared to hate her because she was really annoying when she was a presenter at Roosterteeth but she's fine in this. Maybe it's just her real personality and it was five years ago when she left so she could have changed.

The_Wanderer

Ashlei Sharpe Chestnut plays Sidney LaForge, not Mica Burton.

mewso

While still better than the first two seasons there are more holes appearing. Raffi needs to brush up on the Dominon war a bit. I suspect she might have been alive when, you know, the federation faced defeat. As others have said Riker's reaction to a situation where, in agreement with Picard, they had no other option was ridiculous. I do like the idea of the changelings being back but I also worry it might become overused to explain things. Are we going to discover that Beverley is still lying and Jack is actually a changeling that has left the link to stop this terrorist group or a changeling she found and raised and stayed away for 20 years to protect?

Some worrying signs of dogy writing this episode but they have a get out clause for almost any odd character behaviours.

eadrom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308684#Comment_120308684

Interesting. Looks like Mica Burton does have a season 3 credit though, according to her Wiki page, as “Ensign Alandra La Forge”. I guess we haven’t seen them yet?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mica_Burton

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308684#Comment_120308684

That might explain it then.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309078#Comment_120309078

I'd read that Mica was playing his daughter and just assumed she looked different than I remember. Accidental racism avoided.

The_Wanderer

La'Forge's other daughter (played by Mica) has yet to appear.

ItHurtsWhenIP

I agree this nebula storyline is dragging the whole thing out for far too long. 🥱

I've only watched the episode once, but wan't there a passing mention of something biological in the nebula? Could there be a critter in there that might save the Titan?

I think the command transfer was understandable. Picard is retired from star fleet and so has no authority there any longer. Riker, on the other hand, is still on active duty, so the computer would recognise his authority ... the fact he was previously captain of the ship may also be relevant.

Now bear with me here ... That final dialogue between Picard and Riker ... the way Picard was talking seemed off to me, so my brain went there ... I think that was the changeling. 🤔

fritzelly

That defeatist look on Picard's face when told to shut the f*ck up was very telling

Evade

Also, three episodes in and it hasn't **** itself yet. Is this a Picard record?

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308774#Comment_120308774

I think Raffi's obliviousness was just shoehorning in some exposition for people who've seen TNG but haven't seen DS9.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310635#Comment_120310635

Poor deprived fools that they are!

corkie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308684#Comment_120308684

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309078#Comment_120309078

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-sidney-la-forge-seven-nine/

The ex-Borg taking Sidney under her wing is Seven's attempt to help Ensign La Forge escape the shadow of her legendary father, Commodore Geordi La Forge (LeVar Burton), as well as Sidney's sister, Ensign Alandra La Forge (Mica Burton), who became an engineer like their father.

We haven't met the sister yet, plus no credit on IMDb yet? Alias.

• Michaela J. Burton
• Michaela Jean Burton
• Michaela Burton

breezy1985

The episode itself didn't have much going on but I really like the changelings as bad guys. It's exactly the kind of post Bermantrek politics I was looking for (I just want to know the situation in the universe). Why they are after Picard could last minute scupper this wide arcing grown up story though.

As others said Crushers reason to hide her son is bollix because she sent him to constant danger. I am starting to like him though.

Despite Word being a big part of later DS9 I always forget he was in it so when he mentioned a changeling friend my heart jumped.

corkie

@ilovesmybrick I found the scenes with Raffi and Worf a bit jarring, it broke the tension and the tone change was a bit much. And that torture scene with Raffi did the character absolutely no favours whatsoever.

@fritzelly keep cutting to Raffi - save it for one whole episode we can all skip

@_Kaiser_ Raffi continues to be the weak point of the series.. Not sure why she wasn't just written out.

@breezy1985 Despite Word WORF being a big part of later DS9

Rumor doing the rounds, another series no body has yet asked for? : -

https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/worf-raffi-star-trek-spinoff.html

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311156#Comment_120311156

Oh dear lord