Why wont die hard GAA fans admit football these days is muck?

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789473#Comment_121789473

And there we go, deflection central.

We are being honest describing the game as an enjoyable spectacle.

If you think 37 passes in the opponents half , about 10 yards gained, final kick blocked and then the whole

procedure starts again.

Thats a load of rubbish.

Treble double

I watch it and I realise that leauge football is played at the wrong time of the year in bad conditions with experimental teams sometimes so i take it for what it is, knowing that at the business end of the championship in high summer, year on year the entertainment will be top class and arguably getting better by the year. We have had classic all Ireland semis and finals served up in the last decade the likes of that have never come close to being equalled in the past. There is no other sport I would watch ahead of it at All Ireland semi final stage. This time of year I would definitely watch a big Premier leauge game ahead of it. I find the top Premier leauge teams very entertaining and top class soccer has become very entertaining in the last 15 years.

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787119#Comment_121787119

Lack of practice in shooting.

Maybe a rule change could help that. Players who are fouled have to take the free?

Not the worst idea, but at the very least it would force managers/coaches to practice shooting if it meant lads having to have some level of accuracy.

And in doing so, might make them more comfortable in actually taking a shot on.

dxhound2005

I remember the time when all frees had to be taken from the ground. Placed balls, as they were called. Then when the option to take them from the hands came in, it was only the player fouled who could take the free. Or if it was a technical foul such as an opposition player touching the ball on the ground, it had to be the player from the other team nearest the foul. No sense to this stuff. Especially as a player who was fouled could be injured and not at his full best when forced to take the free.

I assume it was player power that got this nonsense sorted out. They would never agree to going back to that system.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789811#Comment_121789811

Lads….stop deflecting…..37 passes back and across… ten yards gained..shot blocked

Rinse and repeat…..there’s your problem.

shockframe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789714#Comment_121789714

Maybe we ought to setup a thread like this on the other sports threads when there is 5 minutes without a score in a high profile game or a game that might go through a lull.

I'm sure it would be greeted with open arms by die-hard American Football, Rugby, Soccer fans etc.

dxhound2005

In the old days it used to be easier to keep up with the scoring. The programme in Navan had a list of all the games between Meath and Louth. The first three results were Meath 1-03 Louth 2-00, Meath 0-06 Louth 0-06, Meath 2-05 Louth 1-04. I know the games were probably only 60 minutes but that is poor entertainment. The game in Omagh had 23 scores, and no game at the weekend had fewer than 20. But some lads would prefer to count the handpasses.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789473#Comment_121789473

there was only around 40,000 at kerry v derry last year in the all Ireland semi final. why do you think the semis will definitely sell out this year?

pgj2015

David clifford is a class player but imagine how good it would be watching him play against a team that doesnt have 15 back defending in their own half. They way football is now takes away from class players like him.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790348#Comment_121790348

Ya imagine teams back in the day being too tacticallly inept in the past to not try to and prevent him from running absolute riot on them.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790348#Comment_121790348

It's a team game. When teams are well matched, football games usually have between 20 and 35 scores. More these days than when teams kicked the ball up the field and hoped for the best.

When there are mismatches you get scorelines like Dublin 4-30 Laois 2-09 and Down 8-16 Laois 2-12 in 2023. The best entertainment is watching two good teams battling to engineer scores in the face of resolute defences, with 15 behind the ball if required.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790400#Comment_121790400

why did they change the back pass rule in soccer? because it was making the game boring to watch, thats why. big changes are needed in gaelic football or eventually lots of people will give up watching it.

I think the reason people still go to matches is they have nothing else going on in their lives, they wont admit 99% of games are crap to watch because gaelic football is their number one love but deep down they know its awful to watch and was better 10 years ago.

megadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790500#Comment_121790500

This might come as a shock to you, but people tend to do things they enjoy and not do things they don't enjoy.

Your inability to accept people having different tastes and likes to you reminds me of those clowns who describe people who have different musical tastes to them as having 'bad taste'.

shockframe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790263#Comment_121790263

40,000.

With combined populations of about 250,000.

About 16% attendance overall.

Compared to Premier League grounds which are on average 10% capacity of the cities they are in.

gormdubhgorm

The league has been great this year three rounds gone at the time of writing. Yeah, football does have it's problems with teams sitting too deep occasionally and over handpassing.

But on the whole I think that that criticise the football harshly are:

1) Of a certain generation - kick and catch - kick it as far as you can and as high as you can etc

And/Or

2) Out and out hurling people - who think by criticising football puts hurling in a better light (yet would never say a bad word about hurling - even if some turn into long distance freetaking competitions)

--

A shot clock was suggested in the changes in the changes in the GAA thread for football, might be something to try. To cut down the amount of passing and speed it up a bit

But personally my main gripe is that advanced mark. Get rid of that first!

To be honest I don't think teams in div1 and the likes of Donegal in div 2 have been as close in standard as they are now. for a long time.

That only bodes well for the game. It has a feeling that a lot of teams have a chance on any given day. When could you say that last?

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790080#Comment_121790080

Because that’s the problem, my friend.

You can come up with all the stats you like, but 37 hand passes sideways and back …there’s your problem ,lad.

Yo can dress it up any you like.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786961#Comment_121786961

Like anything a mix is best. Many seem to be saying there is too much hand passing therefore ban hand passing. I showed many examples of iconic goals that would have been frees the other way without handpassing. In most cases they also included good accutrate kick passing also.

The statement that prime Kieran Donaghy or Gooch would not get a sniff near Kerry in todays game is patent bullsh*t also. Both could execute the handpass expertly and both benefited from moves that may have been started with a run off a handpass into space.

Do people seriously want to turn the game into endless lobbing balls into packed defences from 60 yards?

pgj2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0HSKn47vg4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy2GIs55Tm0

which one is better to watch? be honest.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791339#Comment_121791339

why into packed defences? the new rules wouldnt have packed defences. that is what is killing the game.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791351#Comment_121791351

You believe that without the prospect of breaking up play with quick interchanges defences would just filter back and mark the target inside the scoring zone.

The belief that long kicking is some sort of utopia is short sighted in the extreme. The most effective, and pleasing to the eye, tactics are when a mix is employed. The prospect and quick interchanges and fast running out the field is what draws out defenders freeing up space for the ball inside. Look at clips from the so called glory days. This is what was happening then and what the best teams are doing now. Doing something to discourage 15 behind the ball tactics is needed however the proposal being advance here of banning hand passes between the 45s does nothing to address that. Teams are not hand passing out the field for the craic. Its in the hope of drawing out a player from the massed defence and freeing up space closer to goal. Its why the keeper is coming up too. To draw a man out of position. Its pulling numbers out of the back not eliminating hand passing that will improve the game. If the numbers remain in defence aimless kicking will be one of the consequences. Teams with a big target man will be successful but others who prefer the pacier running game will be disadvantage. The Donaghys and Gooches prospered in a mixed game.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791340#Comment_121791340

Lots of handpasses in that Mayo Dublin game so not sure what point you are trying to make

Brendan Bendar

37 handpasses ..gain of around 10 yards……most of them across the field around the 40 yard distance.

Rinse and repeat.

Dress it up however you like , that’s a load of crud.

Needs to be examined before the game loses any failing attraction it has now as an enjoyable watch.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791513#Comment_121791513

Really? you didnt watch much of it so, the mayo v Dublin game there was maybe 2 hand passes at most in a row, only used when suitable, way quicker game than anything you have these days, exciting fast paced football with lots of good kick passes.

free kicks never went backwards in these games either.

pgj2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4h7KBnhfVM&t=2018s

Another classic game, lots of fast paced attacking play. if you think anything we get these days is any way as good as this game, you are deluded.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791340#Comment_121791340

Well the two best games I have seen in my lifetime in football at the top of my head (the ones that really stick in my mind) would have been the 2008 Galway v Kerry QF in torrential rain.

It had everything in it a mixture of handpassing and kickpassing. But it was non stop stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=581Cv7BSH6M

The other one was the 2013 AI Semi Final between Dublin and Kerry

https://youtu.be/T4h7KBnhfVM?si=_dEaT0fgnf_pXD8G

Again it was a non-stop pacey game. Had a mixture of handpassing AND kicking.

The key similarity between the two games was the pace of the games. Both teams wanted to attack whether that be by the hand pass or the kick pass.

But at the same time there was no lamping the ball for the sake of it.

Look at the 1956 AI football final between Cork and Galway (Galway in white)

From @6:12 -

https://youtu.be/cBgNI7oF4xY?si=JzMUf4CJH3wL-cfg&t=372

Galway fella boots it, loses possession, Cork fella (Sean Moore) boots it loses possession, Galway fella boots it as soon as he gets it. Awful stuff really. So be careful what you wish for on the kicking front as well.

--

The problem as I see it is handpassing is grand if a team is doing it to find angles and be progressive, or even trying to kill a game for a minute or two. But if both teams are sitting back at the same time with a big massive gap in the middle of the pitch it looks awful.

The worst game I remember for handpassing and sitting back that was a Div2 Final Galway v Kildare they might as well have removed the posts for long periods! Neither team wanted to attack for ages. It was 6 each at half time, terrible for the neutral.

https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/allianz-final-galway-edge-out-kildare

But the game loosened up at half time with the score finishing at 0-18 to 0-16 points for the Tribesmen.

--

So it just shows to that the debate is not really handpassing v kickpassing. It is when it is constantly aimless kickpasses, or constantly safety first side to side passing from both sides that it can get tedious.

I know they tried counting the number of handpasses which was disaster, but what about borrowing a bit from Rugby a hand pass has to go forward? It would cut out the constant side to side stuff, and it would be much more difficult to the same with the kick pass as often.

The game of football only needs a few tweaks at best, the question is what is right move to make. As it could have unintended consequences like the "advanced mark"

shockframe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791910#Comment_121791910

😄Yeah

Brendan Bendar

Two biggest problems (and they are big) are

1. the tackle
2. the handpass

37 handpasses across the field ain’t goin to butter any parsnips.

Might as well say goodbye (a long goodbye) to the game.

Bobson Dugnutt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792694#Comment_121792694

Unusually perceptive by yourself, Brendan. The hand passing over and back across the midfield and forwards unable to shoot from outside the 21 are killing the game. It’s dour, nasty, and agricultural stuff and radical solutions are required.

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792694#Comment_121792694

Are you going to repeat this comment 37 times?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792694#Comment_121792694

I think you are being slightly on the hyperbolic side, 37 handpassesses across the course of about 75 minutes = about 2 hand passes a minute. The fix for that would be to make them go forwards.

The tackle there is some argument. But your statement on saying 'goodbye' to the game. Gaelic football has never been as innovative since the foundation of the GAA. Borrowing pieces from other sports tactically and analytically

As I said earlier the league has been great attacking stuff, teams mostly well met.

I think your view of football is through rose tinted glasses, pining for the "good auld days" which always seem better when looked back nostalgically, forgetting the shite games.

Plus lets be honest there is cohort who are never going to like tactical thinking, and strategic thinking no matter what form it comes in. Lamp it instead etc.

The problem is the GAA rules cannot keep up with the evolution of the game, it was much easier for them when it was 15 v 15 and lamp it. Now teams actually think.